Damn ... reading this thread I'm half for/half against Leach. I may have to go YouTube all his previous games and try to figure it out **
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Damn ... reading this thread I'm half for/half against Leach. I may have to go YouTube all his previous games and try to figure it out **
Hahahahaha. Spurrier was so frustrated in that moment. "F it, take a safety". Which if I recall correctly.... was a horrible decision given the score and time left. He lost his sh**. It was glorious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobile Bay
Different era bub.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Akili King and Ryan Leaf were "NFL" QB's. Couch was a bust in the NFLQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Washington St was just as bad when Leach took over, and had less money and was harder to recruit to. In Leach's first year at Wazzou, he beat Sark, who was in his forth year at Washington.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Damn Spidey .. you making some damn good points here too. You know Leach pretty well seems like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderman
Met him in '03 at a coaching clinic. In those days, outside of football geeks, he was not real known. He was interesting as hell and changed a lot of my thinking about football. Mainly the old "you can't do this or can't do that" mentality is horse shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
He saw football as so simple. In his words "hell it ain't rocket science, but some coaches try to make it that hard". His simplicity was genius, to me. He took up all the time I wanted with me.
So I watched his teams play all I could and read everything I could on him. A couple of years later, we had a talented QB and I was able to convince our HC to put in more and more of Leach's stuff. Too his credit he saw the possibilities of what they did. I called and asked for drill and practice tapes for my QBs and WR's from Leach. They sent whatever I needed.
We lead the State in total offense 3 straight years.
We had a a WR who was 6 feet and maybe 150 who ran MAYBE a 4.9 40 who set the state record, at that time, for receiving TD's in a season, public or private school.
It made a believer out of me.
He's a different dude, but I think that is what has made him successful in places like he's been.
Should State hire him? I don't know, but I know it will take a different type dude to win here. Not an in the box thinker.
Leach knows people say he can't win in the SEC. If he wants this job he knows what he is up against with the schedule and recruiting..
He would not come here to ride off into the sunset. Especially since he knows this isn't the old MSU. We will fire your ass. Bowl games are not enough. The program has to be going up.
He's a smart guy..I believe he was an attorney before he was a coach.....he knows what people say. He knows what he up against.
I think he will have a chip on his shoulder. I think he wants to prove he can run with the big boys.
I don't know if it will work, but the idea of Mike leach with a chip on his shoulders, maybe coaching with more fire than ever.....the thought of that I can get behind and support
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderman
I think you just sold me dude. At least I'd be willing to give it a shot with him if Cohen did make him the coach. Someone said he loved Mississippi too. Might have 10 or 12 good years left in him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderman
Leach would be a Mississippi grand slam.
hahaha- exactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
Good one! Rep given!Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
I?d bet a decent amount of money it won?t be Leach. He is a hot name in most searches at one point and then he isn?t. Plus, his contract currently is nuts for what you?d get from a value standpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by DLGDawg
But he's a proven winner...in the Big 12 and PAC 12. He would fit right in with the SEC West. Plus the most important thing, He will be entertaining in interviews.*Quote:
Originally Posted by DLGDawg
Wouldn't be able to recruit in our recruiting ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Exactly, his recruiting is 44-60, and he still wins. Now imagine what he could do here with top 20-30 classes.
We need an offensive guy who can put up points against anyone. Given even a decent DC, our defense will always be fairly good due to where we are. Look at the talent that comes out of Mississippi, and specifically to State over the last 20 years, the state is an absolute hotbed for defensive recruiting. That talent isn't going anywhere, it's in the state every year. We need a coach who can bring in what we don't already home grow organically, which is an elite passing game.
UK went 1-10, 4-7, and 4-7 before Mumme and Leach got there. They took UK to the Outback Bowl and had only been to 1 bowl in the 12 years prior. 7-5 was their best record in 13 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Yeah and Mumme flamed out and went 2-9 just 2 years later and was removed. Guy Morriss was the replacement who also worked developing the offense and lasted 2 years (went to Baylor and bombed as well).Quote:
Originally Posted by MedDawg
Also, I have yet to see one person allude to the fact that large a part of the reason they did get better and the offense improved was the fact that Mumme and the staff put UK on probation for huge recruiting violations including paying players. They were also tied up in the Albert Means saga. They came in hot with illegal benefits and it got them 5, 6, 7, 2 wins under Mumme.
You can pull numbers out of context with the best of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
They won 1, 4, and 4, games in the 3 years preceding those two. Than 7-5 year was better than the 13 years that preceded it and the 7 years that followed it.
If anything, the success of that offense even back in the late 90's proves the offense would do just fine in today's SEC.
I know Leach is a good coach. My point is that where our program is right now vs where it was when Mullet left is why Moorhead was fired. Right? I feel that we need a different type of leader at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg-gone-dawgs
Leach is entertaining, quirky, rain man ish. Is that the type man that will bring our program back up to where we want it?? Gain the respect of the players? I don't know the answer.
In my humble opinion, Leach is not the answer AT THIS TIME.
When Mullet left, I would have been all for Leach. Certain standards were set in place. I think Leach could have at least maintained that.
So it sounds like Leach was pretty instrumental to the success.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
And the massive cheating that busted them in just 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
They went down offensively when Leach left. In the book, Perfect Pass, they talk about how Leach was Mumme's security blanket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
That when Mumme, who was a 2 back guy at heart, wanted to get conservative or go back to his old ways, it was Leach in his ear saying NO. Be more aggressive. Take more chances. Don't be scared to try it. And Mumme would push the limits even more.
One thing you can say about Leach, he is fearless when it come to coaching
Massive paying of recruits did more of that than just the offenseQuote:
Originally Posted by smootness
That was after Leach had left and was one rouge assistant with just a couple of players. You really ought to research that and see that Mumme probably should have sued folks over that deal. It was a wild storyQuote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
The more I think about Leach, the more I am warming up to him. I am just so damn scared to get another "offensive genius" whose offense doesn't work in the SEC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Napier's offense is very similar to Mullen's offense. Sark has been in the SEC for a while now. Grantham knows the SEC well and supposedly will bring a guy to run the spread like Mullen. Hudspeth runs a version of the spread and we kind of know what he would do. Leach just seems like a wild card. The wild card can win for you or randomly cut your brakes and jump out of the back of the van (Always Sunny reference for anyone interested).
Oh I don’t disagree but the buying of recruits was a big part of how they went to 7 wins as quickly as they did. And Morriss wasn’t on the same level as Leach. Not even close but Kentucky thought he could get it back. I just want everyone to have context of how that 7-5 team...that was their best team, was actually built. Leach is a great offensive mind and they set records but that wasn’t the only reason they got to 7-5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderman
Yeah, because Kentucky was swimming in football talent in 97-98.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
They went 2-9 in 2000 before the sanctions came down. They weren't recruiting well.
So give me the recruits they brought in after Mumme was hired that were instrumental to that 1998 team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
They didn't have anyone that good except Couch, and he was recruited by the previous staff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
And the players they inherited from Curry were all recruited to play in a 2 and 3 back offense that ran the I Bone.
In your opinion, do we have the players currently on the team that would do well in Leach's offense? Our QBs other than Will Rogers are probably more of the run first type of QB. Would it take another year of recruiting to get his type of players?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderman
It would certainly take a year or two for the offense to start really clicking. The question is simply whether he is the right guy long-term, not necessarily whether or not the success in 2020 would be maximized.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
I do, to an extent. GS's accuracy concerns me. And that's Leach's big deal with QB's. Rogers being a freshman is a concern. But with the WR's we have coming in plus Williams and Payton, and the 2 redshirts, I think we would be fine. If you can catch, you will play. An intriguing guy would be Cumbest at the Y position. He looks like the great ones Leach has has had at that position. Problem is he seems to be more about baseball. If Hill doesn't come back, I think it would fit Witherspoon. He's more of a space player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
I will say Hill could be special in it. As much as Leach throws to the RB.
Here is the deal, look at our roster and tell me what coach is gonna put up big numbers? Especially if Hill is gone.
I don't know but I do know we have a lot more options to do well if we run the spread that Mullen installed. We have 3 QBs that could run the power spread and do well, I am not sure we have a QB that would do "well" in Leach's system. Of course that could also be said of Sark's offense, although he did well with Hurts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderman
If you told me that next year would be a 5 win season with Leach and then would be 8-11 win seasons after then I would be ok with it. The problem would be if we are getting blown out, would the fans stay until 2021. Today's culture doesn't want to wait. Some people think we were too quick with Moorhead and he had two years of shitty offensive results in SEC games. If we struggled against NC State right out the gate next year then it would be rough.
I think I read that Couch was considering transferring from Kentucky until Mumme and Leach entered the scene there. So they are the reason that Couch stayed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderman
I can assure you, Mike Leach will put up better offensive numbers, at least by year 2, than anybody else we could possibly hire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
What? Franklin testified that if it was wide spread and occurred before and after Bassett and that the administration was complicit and wanted it all to fall on Bassett. Mumme state’s that Bell and the Admin wanted everything tied to Bassett and it was in the university’s best interest. The NCAA cut a bunch of deals with Ark, TN, GA, and Kentucky to nail the Albert Means case. Even with that they still got hit hard losing 19 scholarships and bowl eligibility. And it wasn’t a few athletes but over a dozen listed in the NCAA report and we know how that goes and how many there really were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderman
He was. Dumbass Curry was trying to make him a option QB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago
Here's another Leach story that shows how he ticks...
Couch was the Top QB in the nation. Mumme and Leach were at Valdosta St. Leach comes in and asks Mumme if he can go recruit Couch.
Mumme about laughs him out of the office. Leach insists and Mumme says go ahead. Mumme said Leach recruited him like they were Notre Dame.That Leach was fearless and wasn't worried about being shunned.
Of course Couch wasn't gonna go, but he was intrigued by what they were doing. So when they got hired at Kentucky, Couch, because he knew Leach and knew what they were gonna do, stayed at KY. Mumme said he wasn't sure if Couch would have stayed without the prior contact.
So you never know.
Regardless, they weren't able to make the players they had work nearly as well either before or after Leach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?