Reasons many of our fans are very hesitant on changing coaches

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10-31-2019, 10:29 AM
SheltonChoked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indndawg

I know older fans point to Darrel Royal...which is apples vs oranges bc it was b4 integreation.

Point 1: I know many ppl who hated to see Rocky let go but quickly warmed to JWS, esp when he won right off the bat

Point 2: Jackie should have been nudged to the retirement door after 2002. We know the division on Gene's Page over that. Even after the disaster of 2003, many fans said we can't fire him, we owe too much

Point 3: Many fans said you can't fire Croom 1 year removed from an SEC COY...but it happened.

Point 4: Evidience is there, that JoMo is prolly the worst coach MSU has ever had, at least in the last 50 years....yet, the blue hairs and fraidy cats still want to keep him and keep making the same lame excuses.
So what have yall heard

Point 4 is hyperbole... 50 years is back to 1970.
Shira was worse (16?45?2)
Tyler was better ( thanks NCAA)
Bellard was worse (Won with Tylers players, then won 5 SEC games in 5 years)
Rocky was worse
Jackie was better, the worse, then better, then worse
Croom was worse. (Maine)
Mullen was better

My only fear in replacing him is the transition from Stansbury to Rick Ray. Everyone said " we have a great program , it will be easy to replace Stans", and we ended up the Clemson's 3rd assistant coach.

We have to get a coach lined up before we make the move. Like we did with Howland.

This is not a don't fire him, it's a "get the other guy signed up first". IMO, we have to get a head coach, and pay him.

(I.e. Fleck $3.5mm, Fickell $2.4mm, Matt Campbell $3.5mm, Norvell $1.8mm)
10-31-2019, 10:29 AM
Johnson85

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB30

It isn't just about HC and asst coach salaries. We spend significantly less on recruiting etc. We spend less in just about every facet of the program.

Name one thing in life that you don't generally get what you pay for.

If you go the cheap route you usually get cheap things. We have been cheap when it comes to quite a bit about our program in regards to the rest of the league and even a large chunk of the rest of the power 5. I don't understand how that is hard to comprehend. Yes you can catch a good up and comer like a Dan Mullen but the odds aren't in your favor of doing that repeatedly over time. All I am saying is that we could increase our odds of success if we would raise/spend more on the entire program.

So I am assuming you believe that we aren't getting what we paid for in relation to the rest of the league and that spending has little to do with success? That regardless of what we spend we should have a top 6 program in the SEC?

That's a really dumb assumption. Not sure what kind of terrible logic you follow to get there.

You specifically said that our coach is the 13th highest paid coach in the SEC. I was pointing out that our head coaching salary is not a problem at all. We pay enough to get what is basically our best case scenario, which is a G5 head coach or P5 coordinator. We have proven that we will pay a successful head coach, basically willing to match UF for Mullen if he had wanted to be here. I assume if we had wanted to poach a P5 head coach from some of the lower tier P5 schools we could reasonably poach from that we would have been willing to pay closer to what Dan was making when he left. So if we have a problem on spending too little, it's not at the head coaching level, so it's stupid to point to head coaching salary as evidence that we are not spending enough.
10-31-2019, 10:32 AM
Dawgology

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheltonChoked

Point 4 is hyperbole... 50 years is back to 1970.
Shira was worse (16?45?2)
Tyler was better ( thanks NCAA)
Bellard was worse (Won with Tylers players, then won 5 SEC games in 5 years)
Rocky was worse
Jackie was better, the worse, then better, then worse
Croom was worse. (Maine)
Mullen was better

My only fear in replacing him is the transition from Stansbury to Rick Ray. Everyone said " we have a great program , it will be easy to replace Stans", and we ended up the Clemson's 3rd assistant coach.

We have to get a coach lined up before we make the move. Like we did with Howland.

This is not a don't fire him, it's a "get the other guy signed up first". IMO, we have to get a head coach, and pay him.

(I.e. Fleck $3.5mm, Fickell $2.4mm, Matt Campbell $3.5mm, Norvell $1.8mm)

This. We don't need to cheap out again.
10-31-2019, 10:47 AM
MadDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgology

I've read several posters on here, on social media, and other forums that have mentioned that we are now back to where we are "supposed to be"...6 win seasons with down years mixed in

I read a lot of message boards and social media. I have yet to read anyone say that.
10-31-2019, 11:01 AM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by msugolf

So lay it out for us slick. Give us the plan how he becomes a winner at MState. Recruits top 10 classes every year? Out schemes better talent? Plays tough, disciplined, hard nosed football?

You're a damned fool if you think a slow methodical offense is going to compete in this conference. It would take Bama level talent and even then Saban saw a need to change to more up tempo.

We are going to have to do what it takes to get continuity. That means PAYING coaches. Notice that is plural. That means assistants too. We don't do that. Who said anything about slow , methodical offense? I sure didn't. Those days are over.
10-31-2019, 11:05 AM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadDawg

I read a lot of message boards and social media. I have yet to read anyone say that.

I haven't either. I've been accused of it but that's not even close to what I have said. Our boards have gone insane, if they ever were sane that is.
10-31-2019, 11:24 AM
Maroonthirteen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson85

I agree, which is partly why I said it would be very risky for us to give Joe another year and just said it would be risky to make a new hire.

I think Joe has to go if we go 4-8. I think he should go if we get to 5-7, but you've got to weigh interest from your likely candidates. If he goes 6-6, I still won't be optimistic about Joe, but I would expect him to come back at that point and think it will be the right thing to bring him back just because at that point, I do think coaches will at least wonder about our expectations. If we go 6-6 this year, and then fire Joe, and then the next coach goes 7-6 and 7-6, are they going to be safe? The answer is definitely, because even if they look bad, they haven't regressed and we're not going to pay two buyouts at once. The next coach can probalby go 5-7 and 5-7 and still get a third year. But I understand candidates being at least a little concerned about longevity.

I agree with this. We just have to let things play out to see how the season ends. I get it... our offense looks terrible. I get it!!! But Cohen has to make sure that he has a viable replacement before we can fire a coach because his offense sucks.

If he gets to 6-6. That?s a 7 win average his first two years. I just don?t see a proven head coach jumping to MSU if we fire a guy that went 8-5 and 6-6 at State. Regardless of how his offense performed.
10-31-2019, 03:09 PM
gravedigger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indndawg

sjfjlsjldjfljsdljflsd

Last 15 years: Croom
Since I've been alive: Bellard 1 bad year, 2 bowl years, 4 HORRENDOUS years.......... Felker 1 year won six games and lost the next 5 by so much we didnt get a bowl. TecH and 10. Croom 3 years he got a pass for the 3 years we got driven in the ground. Years made a bowl and because of that Coach of the year. And If I have to remind you of 2008, then, nevermind.

I'm not including any coach from the 60's or 50's because I wasnt born and cannot evaluate, but we were horrendous then as well.

So there you have it. Of the total 6 coaches that have spanned all years since 1978. 3 were worse than Moorhead. NOT COUNTING the decades of the 50's and 60's.
10-31-2019, 03:28 PM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

I agree with this. We just have to let things play out to see how the season ends. I get it... our offense looks terrible. I get it!!! But Cohen has to make sure that he has a viable replacement before we can fire a coach because his offense sucks.

If he gets to 6-6. That?s a 7 win average his first two years. I just don?t see a proven head coach jumping to MSU if we fire a guy that went 8-5 and 6-6 at State. Regardless of how his offense performed.

Unless he decides to leave for another program. Which is what I think is really going on. Moorhead is shaking trees to find a place to land come December. This is not what he expected it to be like. He's been shocked and awed by the grind and intensity of the SEC. He wants out.
10-31-2019, 04:42 PM
Cooterpoot

90% of our fans what Moorhead gone. The other 10% are spilt between old guys that are fine with 6 wins and Ole Miss fans stirring the pot disguised as State fans.
10-31-2019, 04:56 PM
shannondawg

Be interesting to see how this plays out. Glad I ain't Cohen, but am ok with whatever he decides to do, that's what we pay him for.

You did stir up some of us old folks, but don't forget this, we know a lot cause we seen a lot. Thats from the Farmers Ins commercial, but very true.

The only person that asks for my opinion these days is the president of the USA. But it also includes a request for a donation.
10-31-2019, 05:36 PM
Dawgology

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadDawg

I read a lot of message boards and social media. I have yet to read anyone say that.

I'll try to go back and find it. It was actually on this board.
10-31-2019, 06:36 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

90% of our fans what Moorhead gone. The other 10% are spilt between old guys that are fine with 6 wins and Ole Miss fans stirring the pot disguised as State fans.

Actually the smart UM fans are stoking the discontent. That's what they have always done here, and they are doing it now.
10-31-2019, 07:19 PM
BB30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson85

That's a really dumb assumption. Not sure what kind of terrible logic you follow to get there.

You specifically said that our coach is the 13th highest paid coach in the SEC. I was pointing out that our head coaching salary is not a problem at all. We pay enough to get what is basically our best case scenario, which is a G5 head coach or P5 coordinator. We have proven that we will pay a successful head coach, basically willing to match UF for Mullen if he had wanted to be here. I assume if we had wanted to poach a P5 head coach from some of the lower tier P5 schools we could reasonably poach from that we would have been willing to pay closer to what Dan was making when he left. So if we have a problem on spending too little, it's not at the head coaching level, so it's stupid to point to head coaching salary as evidence that we are not spending enough.

So as a whole do you or do you not agree that we are spending enough money to be a consistent top 6 sec team?

I also pointed out the lack of spending and donations regarding football as a whole and all I hear is crickets. Coaching salaries were just the easiest data to pull to highlight this and yes, I do believe we seriously underpay quality assistants.

The whole reason we keep having to hire coordinators from power 5 schools as head coaches is because we don?t spend enough money on our program as a whole including coaching salaries. Dan worked out, jomo looks like he won?t.

Y?all want top dollar results on a terrible budget and that just isn?t going to happen consistently. Again, like anything in life you get what you pay for. You may occasionally find a deal but you won?t consistently be able to do that.

I?m not sure how anyone could possibly argue with that fact when there is 100 years of history backing it up. We consistently underspend and under donate and yet we expect consistent results.

We lose our quality assistants every single year. Our ads get poached if they are any good.

It?s just dumb to me bitching about everything under the sun as a fan when the one thing fans can actually control is how much they give and how much they go to games and support Starkville and the community.

So many people on here bitch about the poor play and yet also bitch about the price of a drink or what a game costs. Those two do go hand in hand relatively speaking.

Want to win more start with increasing the recruiting budget and paying your assistants which starts with more donations and giving.

You don?t think that new baseball stadium is a hell of a recruiting tool compared to mizzous baseball field? Well that?s about the same comparison as David wade to Death Valley or Texas a and m. Especially when it?s half full.
10-31-2019, 07:23 PM
TopDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indndawg

I know older fans point to Darrel Royal...which is apples vs oranges bc it was b4 integreation.

Point 1: I know many ppl who hated to see Rocky let go but quickly warmed to JWS, esp when he won right off the bat

Point 2: Jackie should have been nudged to the retirement door after 2002. We know the division on Gene's Page over that. Even after the disaster of 2003, many fans said we can't fire him, we owe too much

Point 3: Many fans said you can't fire Croom 1 year removed from an SEC COY...but it happened.

Point 4: Evidience is there, that JoMo is prolly the worst coach MSU has ever had, at least in the last 50 years....yet, the blue hairs and fraidy cats still want to keep him and keep making the same lame excuses.
So what have yall heard

I guess you are including me, I am 72 years old, and I want him gone and the guy that hired him. At least if Cohen not fired, don't let him ever hire another football coach.
10-31-2019, 07:30 PM
Cooterpoot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Actually the smart UM fans are stoking the discontent. That's what they have always done here, and they are doing it now.

Nah, they know they can own JoMo. They’d just assume we keep him.
10-31-2019, 08:58 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

90% of our fans what Moorhead gone. The other 10% are spilt between old guys that are fine with 6 wins and Ole Miss fans stirring the pot disguised as State fans.

It's not that's much, yet. Most rational people are waiting to see what happens the last 4 games.
10-31-2019, 09:01 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Nah, they know they can own JoMo. They’d just assume we keep him.

You are dead wrong here. They know that discord serves their aims better. It kills recruiting and that is more important than who is coaching. It damn sure is for them, and they ain't totally wrong. You are doing your part for sure. I am NOT saying you are a Reb.
11-01-2019, 04:30 AM
munk_munk92

Quote:

Originally Posted by redstickdawg

Name a worse coach. Certainly not anyone since the before Tyler. Joe has had both years underperforming, last year was loaded on defense with 3 1st round picks and was not competitive against LSU, Bama, UK and UGA, not even close. He's supposed to be an offensive guru, but the offense can't pour piss out of a boot. We should have handled KSU and UT this year instead UT destroyed us. TAMU would should have been competitive but the players realize that JoMo is not a leader and have quit on him. Ark Saturday is a battle of cripples and scum is going to destroy us to my heartache. We have a 4 game losing streak going, the longest in many years, it's not that we are losing hell we aren't even in the game at all.

Last year we should've realistically been in the playoffs. I believe we were that good on defense and good enough on offense. Remember 2017 bama had the refs cheat for them to win. We would've beaten Florida, Kentucky, LSU, and i believe a good chance at beating Alabama but def believe we should've beaten the other 3. that would've gotten us to the playoffs. It's a real shame this lame duck offensive guru can't coach offense. A once in a lifetime team missed out on. Sucks big time.
11-01-2019, 07:13 AM
basedog

Quote:

Originally Posted by shannondawg

Be interesting to see how this plays out. Glad I ain't Cohen, but am ok with whatever he decides to do, that's what we pay him for.

You did stir up some of us old folks, but don't forget this, we know a lot cause we seen a lot. Thats from the Farmers Ins commercial, but very true.

The only person that asks for my opinion these days is the president of the USA. But it also includes a request for a donation.

Well said, and "can I have your chickens" asking for a friend****
11-01-2019, 07:27 AM
timotheus

Quote:

Originally Posted by munk_munk92

Last year we should've realistically been in the playoffs. I believe we were that good on defense and good enough on offense. Remember 2017 bama had the refs cheat for them to win. We would've beaten Florida, Kentucky, LSU, and i believe a good chance at beating Alabama but def believe we should've beaten the other 3. that would've gotten us to the playoffs. It's a real shame this lame duck offensive guru can't coach offense. A once in a lifetime team missed out on. Sucks big time.

I couldn't agree more. Last season we actually, with good game prep and coaching should have made a run at the playoffs. Now we are teetering over a cliff. In less than 2 years now we are set back for probably a 4 year rebuild starting next year.
11-01-2019, 07:29 AM
StateDawg44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Actually the smart UM fans are stoking the discontent. That's what they have always done here, and they are doing it now.

???

Name one of them.
11-01-2019, 08:03 AM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Actually the smart UM fans are stoking the discontent. That's what they have always done here, and they are doing it now.

They don?t have to stoke discontent, the play on the field and coaching is what is stoking the fires of our dumpster. They sow the seeds of discontent when Mullen beat them and we were making an upward move. We had way more UNM fans disguised on boards when we are winning and Mullen digging at them. Like with Jackie. They don?t give a crap right now and are not having to ?sow seeds of discontent? to our fan base. The only ones who stick out with over the top defense of how good Moorehead will be, that?s the ones who sound questionable...or double naught 7.
11-01-2019, 08:40 AM
Churchill

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopDawg

I guess you are including me, I am 72 years old, and I want him gone and the guy that hired him. At least if Cohen not fired, don't let him ever hire another football coach.

Exactly the same here (about to be 70) and would like to know for the record who are all these old guys everyone is pointing to for wanting to keep Moorehead. I know a whole bunch of older State guys, some very well connected, and none of them wants to keep Moorhead and all are questioning if Cohen is the right guy for AD severely. Also for the record some of these guys' voices will be heard by folks higher up the ladder than Cohen.
11-01-2019, 09:06 AM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Churchill

Exactly the same here (about to be 70) and would like to know for the record who are all these old guys everyone is pointing to for wanting to keep Moorehead. I know a whole bunch of older State guys, some very well connected, and none of them wants to keep Moorhead and all are questioning if Cohen is the right guy for AD severely. Also for the record some of these guys' voices will be heard by folks higher up the ladder than Cohen.

Gene's Page. Some snowflakes over there, albeit some of those may be young snowflakes. They're relationship people. They like Joe. Saban don't give a crap whether you like him or not ... he's coaching football his way and making his team work to be tough.
11-01-2019, 09:15 AM
StateDawg44

So is this really an argument about whether it's old people or young people who want to keep Moorhead?

All you olds on here should chill out and don't let your panties get in a wad. I'm pretty sure the "olds" he is talking about are the same olds who have deep pockets and actually have contact with Cohen. Not a bunch of old guys on a message board.
11-01-2019, 12:06 PM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by StateDawg44

So is this really an argument about whether it's old people or young people who want to keep Moorhead?

All you olds on here should chill out and don't let your panties get in a wad. I'm pretty sure the "olds" he is talking about are the same olds who have deep pockets and actually have contact with Cohen. Not a bunch of old guys on a message board.

I kinda like these "olds" over here speaking up saying "hey, I'm old and I want Joe gone" ... LOL.

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