What is the Athletic Department Going to Do To Get this Program Back on Track?

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

But that would still close the gap.

- Average recruit ranking is meaningless if the average is just increased due to a lowering of numbers. Bama has no more talent than they do now

- Even if most of the re-allocation is 3 stars, the 3 stars that Bama, for example signs, are still better 3 stars than what everyone else is signing.

There is absolutely no argument that lowering scholarships wouldn't create a better product in college football

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Why is a Bammer 3 star different than any other? Because he signed with Bammer?

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Originally Posted by Coach007

This I agree with. Until you make the sport more competitive and fair. For example, there is no reason we should have 85 players. Reduce them by 15. Change the caps on recruiting so teams can keep the 70.

Change the play offs. Because the competition will be better.

Reduce the games played to 2 OOC increase the playoffs to top 12.

Move the first games 3 weeks later than current start weekend.

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Agreed. I would rather the first weeks game start the 1st weekend of October. I would love to have some december games. Just compress the bowl season. We really do not need 3 solid weeks of bowl games. Double them up during the week.

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Originally Posted by Coursesuper

Why is a Bammer 3 star different than any other? Because he signed with Bammer?

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Because Bammer offered him & felt he was worthy of a scholarship over pretty much any other play in the country

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Agreed. I would rather the first weeks game start the 1st weekend of October. I would love to have some december games. Just compress the bowl season. We really do not need 3 solid weeks of bowl games. Double them up during the week.

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Agree. Problem is no one in college athletics appears to have the balls to stand up & change things

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Originally Posted by MaroonFlounder

Yeah...reduce scholarships...and then have an injury-riddled season like we are experiencing now, and see how we end up, sacrificing an entire season, and having to endure a shitty season because we are playing walk-ons.

You either think too much, or not at all, there is no in-between with you.

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Yet we still fielded a competitive team. Now imagine if 6 of those guys were ready talent rather than simply raw.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Agree. Problem is no one in college athletics appears to have the balls to stand up & change things

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It's hard to stand up to TV money. They are running the show, I you don't believe it just look at next weeks SEC tv schedule. UK at MSU is a 3:00 PM start and non conference San Jose State at Ark is the prime time game on the "SEC" network. Protect the possible TV audience for CBS prime time game ND@UGA at all cost.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I think what a scholarship reduction would do is reallocate a lot of the 3 star type players that sign on with the top ~5-10 teams to the other ~120 teams...

So, let's say skollies are reduced to 75... that's ~50-100 3 star guys spread across the rest of the field... While all schools would see an increase in overall talent, "Average per recruit" ranking would increase more for those upper echelon programs than it would for everyone else.

JMO

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It would need to be around 70. You would have to reduce the amount per year. In 2017 bama signed 6 5 stars, and 18 4 stars.

You would not have been able to do that. You would have had to turn away 8ish of those.

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Originally Posted by Coursesuper

It's hard to stand up to TV money. They are running the show, I you don't believe it just look at next weeks SEC tv schedule. UK at MSU is a 3:00 PM start and non conference San Jose State at Ark is the prime time game on the "SEC" network. Protect the possible TV audience for CBS prime time game ND@UGA at all cost.

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I agree. Since we're making all that money, let's have a stadium that is equipped to handle those games.

In order to get butts in seats is you have to have a winning program and one that people are excited about. To have any of those you need a competent coach and staff and you have to recruit with the big boys. In order to attract these recruits you have to have all the amenities that other big programs have. I say we start there. Start attracting the recruits.

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Originally Posted by munk_munk92

In order to get butts in seats is you have to have a winning program and one that people are excited about. To have any of those you need a competent coach and staff and you have to recruit with the big boys. In order to attract these recruits you have to have all the amenities that other big programs have. I say we start there. Start attracting the recruits.

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I think the history of college football has made it clear that it's delusional to think you can accomplish this.

We haven't had a first time national champion in 26 years.

Since 1977, only 6 teams have won the SEC title.

Yes, Oregon (Nike) & Clemson (incredible staff continuity & transcendent head coach) have been able to compete nationally although not blue bloods, but that is it.

It's simply not realistic to believe we have any chance of accomplishing this, which means the system is horribly flawed.

Other sports have a draft to bring about parity but you can't do that when educations are at stake. Kids must be able to choose their school. Thus the only answer is to limit scholarships OR allow players that willingly enter a draft to be paid.

Not promote a baseball coach will little real athletics administration experience. Bring back Scott Wetherbee.

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Originally Posted by trojandawg

Not promote a baseball coach will little real athletics administration experience. Bring back Scott Wetherbee.

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Yep

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Originally Posted by munk_munk92

In order to get butts in seats is you have to have a winning program and one that people are excited about. To have any of those you need a competent coach and staff and you have to recruit with the big boys. In order to attract these recruits you have to have all the amenities that other big programs have. I say we start there. Start attracting the recruits.

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When was our last losing non-bowl season again? Ten years ago?

Even Alabama is having trouble keeping fans at the games.

It's not just about winning. College football is having to compete with comfort from home and the cost of going to games. I probably spend anywhere between 600-800 dollars a weekend all told going to Starkville. Sometimes have to re-arrange my schedule at work. Sometimes sacrifice some of my personal time. All to wake up at 5 AM to go to an 11 AM game that has a 115 degree heat index at a place with traffic headaches, is a four hour drive round trip, metal detectors that don't work, and have concessions that may or may not have people at them plus very few if any healthy concession options.

Or I could save hundreds of dollars watching the game on TV at my own convenience.

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Originally Posted by trojandawg

Not promote a baseball coach will little real athletics administration experience. Bring back Scott Wetherbee.

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We probably need to go outside of the MSU family in all honesty. Which is what Keenum really wanted to do. But some influential MSU people disagreed and sabotaged it.

At this point I just hope that Cohen ups his game in the marketing, promotion, and gameday function arena. Which we all knew was going to be his weakness going in.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I think the history of college football has made it clear that it's delusional to think you can accomplish this.

We haven't had a first time national champion in 26 years.

Since 1977, only 6 teams have won the SEC title.

Yes, Oregon (Nike) & Clemson (incredible staff continuity & transcendent head coach) have been able to compete nationally although not blue bloods, but that is it.

It's simply not realistic to believe we have any chance of accomplishing this, which means the system is horribly flawed.

Other sports have a draft to bring about parity but you can't do that when educations are at stake. Kids must be able to choose their school. Thus the only answer is to limit scholarships OR allow players that willingly enter a draft to be paid.

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The number of teams that can compete is actually shrinking also. Look at national title winners since the 1980s and 1990s that have fallen in the last 10 years to where they are not competing for national titles for long stretches - Nebraska, Miami, FSU, USC, Texas,Tennessee, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Penn State, Pitt, BYU. Many of those teams have gotten flat out bad, while others are still Top 25 but don't come close to competing with the Bama/Ohio State/Clemson level teams. There are some pretender teams too - like Notre Dame whoever the favorite PAC12 team of the year is (Washington??), who live off their schedules and fold against elite teams in the post season. Its killing the game.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

The number of teams that can compete is actually shrinking also. Look at national title winners since the 1980s and 1990s that have fallen in the last 10 years to where they are not competing for national titles for long stretches - Nebraska, Miami, FSU, USC, Texas,Tennessee, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Penn State, Pitt, BYU. Many of those teams have gotten flat out bad, while others are still Top 25 but don't come close to competing with the Bama/Ohio State/Clemson level teams. There are some pretender teams too - like Notre Dame whoever the favorite PAC12 team of the year is (Washington??), who live off their schedules and fold against elite teams in the post season. Its killing the game.

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Agree.

I think there are few reasons for this:

1. TV. Some of those teams used to be good because they were on TV & other school were not. That is no longer the case & thus it's hard to recruit outside your footprint

2. Recruiting rankings & recruiting/scouting combines have allowed the best players to get to know who their peers are, &, just like we've seen in the NBA, it produces a "super team" desire in those players. They are more & more attending the same schools together because they are friends. It used to not be that way.

It's a real issue that has to be addressed if the power that be want this sport to thrive.

How many years in a row will Bama & Clemson have to play in the national title game for things to change?

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Originally Posted by defiantdog

We're a very soft team..... Kentucky is going to route us, but Tennessee and Arkansas will be competitive. We don't have man eaters on the DL, we don't have head hunters in the secondary, we have a starting QB that can't take a hit (but we have a future with the Shredder..... he's fearless) we don't have an OL pancaking anyone (last year, Jenkins imposed his will on everyone that lined up in front of him). It looks more like a ballerina act at times.

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They showed some on that 4th and short.

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Originally Posted by basedog

You are basing things after a lost way too much Shotgun, things aren't as bad as you speak nor they as good as we might like. But oveall Msu is growing and getting better every year, it's not always about football, it's about our University. You are pretty much saying we need change starting the President, Athletic Director and Head Football Coach. And don't say you didn't, go read what you are posting. To think where Msu is today compared to 5 years ago, 10 years ago, how about 25 and 50 years ago, you need to show more support and get out of the "we aren't worthy" attitude.

To all the fans who show up to the games, I salute you and thank you for your support. For you folks who live to far away or simple can't afford to give or attend, I surely understand and wish you well and thanks for loving the University. For you "oh the sky is falling" and never attend nor give, shut up and quite bitching, folks like y'all make things worse for ones who truly love and give their support not just to our athletic programs but to our University, after all, This Is Our State!

We need fan support Saturday, hope DWS is loud and rocking as this will be the biggest game of this year so for.

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to basedog again.

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Originally Posted by MaroonFlounder

Yeah...reduce scholarships...and then have an injury-riddled season like we are experiencing now, and see how we end up, sacrificing an entire season, and having to endure a shitty season because we are playing walk-ons.

You either think too much, or not at all, there is no in-between with you.

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Give him credit though. He has a very vivid imagination. LOL

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Agree.

I think there are few reasons for this:

1. TV. Some of those teams used to be good because they were on TV & other school were not. That is no longer the case & thus it's hard to recruit outside your footprint

2. Recruiting rankings & recruiting/scouting combines have allowed the best players to get to know who their peers are, &, just like we've seen in the NBA, it produces a "super team" desire in those players. They are more & more attending the same schools together because they are friends. It used to not be that way.

It's a real issue that has to be addressed if the power that be want this sport to thrive.

How many years in a row will Bama & Clemson have to play in the national title game for things to change?

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I agree with most of what you think the problems are... I don't agree with most of your solutions...

I think we just need another class division of college football... and quit pretending they're "amateurs"...

(I'm not advocating for a "P4P" deal... just sayin' if it were segregated, the sum of the parts would be greater than the whole...)

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I agree with most of what you think the problems are... I don't agree with most of your solutions...

I think we just need another class division of college football... and quit pretending they're "amateurs"...

(I'm not advocating for a "P4P" deal... just sayin' if it were segregated, the sum of the parts would be greater than the whole...)

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How many schools would there be in this "new class" and how would that help the current situation?

Also, remember that whatever "new class" you create effects ALL sports. Not just football.

Also, why would creating a new class be better than cutting scholarship, which would build in more parity?

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I agree with most of what you think the problems are... I don't agree with most of your solutions...

I think we just need another class division of college football... and quit pretending they're "amateurs"...

(I'm not advocating for a "P4P" deal... just sayin' if it were segregated, the sum of the parts would be greater than the whole...)

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Why pay college players to play ball and get an education. The NFL can pick up the ticket for a minor league for football and kids that belong in college classrooms can play college football. That solves the different classification deal and paying players all in one move.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I agree with most of what you think the problems are... I don't agree with most of your solutions...

I think we just need another class division of college football... and quit pretending they're "amateurs"...

(I'm not advocating for a "P4P" deal... just sayin' if it were segregated, the sum of the parts would be greater than the whole...)

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The truth is Alabama is historically good because they cheat. The Albert means saga proved that there are sidewalk fans willing to put massive money to make Alabama successful. Other schools outside of UCLA in the 60?s in basketball, Louisville and Kentucky in basketball and Oklahoma of the 70?s simply don?t have fans that dedicated and ruthless.
When a school does decide to cheat at that level like SMU in the 70?s the powers backdoor whisper to the NCAA
I am not advocating MSU cheat, to cheat at this level you need a law school and journalism school that pumps out legal fixers and appologists

It is what it is, but no need for a bama fan to try and tell everyone how to fix the system

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Originally Posted by Sparrows2

The truth is Alabama is historically good because they cheat. The Albert means saga proved that there are sidewalk fans willing to put massive money to make Alabama successful. Other schools outside of UCLA in the 60’s in basketball, Louisville and Kentucky in basketball and Oklahoma of the 70’s simply don’t have fans that dedicated and ruthless.
When a school does decide to cheat at that level like SMU in the 70’s the powers backdoor whisper to the NCAA

It is what it is, but no need for a bama fan to try and tell everyone how to fix the system

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Of course they do, but I've kind of just accepted that this is what goes on at this point.

The question now is: how do we create a more parity & more interest within this system?

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Originally Posted by Sparrows2

The truth is Alabama is historically good because they cheat. The Albert means saga proved that there are sidewalk fans willing to put massive money to make Alabama successful. Other schools outside of UCLA in the 60?s in basketball, Louisville and Kentucky in basketball and Oklahoma of the 70?s simply don?t have fans that dedicated and ruthless.
When a school does decide to cheat at that level like SMU in the 70?s the powers backdoor whisper to the NCAA
I am not advocating MSU cheat, to cheat at this level you need a law school and journalism school that pumps out legal fixers and appologists

It is what it is, but no need for a bama fan to try and tell everyone how to fix the system

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Bob Tyler learned how to cheat from Bear Bryant and Johnny Vaught. Two of the biggest cheaters out there- and of course we were the ones that got burned.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Of course they do, but I've kind of just accepted that this is what goes on at this point.

The question now is: how do we create a more parity & more interest within this system?

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Ethical officials would be a good start. A big part of the problem is it's very obvious that certain "haves" are protected.

I suspect they could expand the playoffs to 16 teams and have mixed officiating crews in the playoffs. That way there would be less incentive to "protect" an Alabama because they could still get into the playoffs with a loss or two- which would mean an upset loss to Mississippi State wouldn't necessarily kill their National Title hopes. Which would create more interest because more people in theory would "have a chance".

All of the above posts are accurate, for the most part... We just cull out the "haves"... Say the top 25 teams based on value, success, attendance, etc...

The remaining programs could set up their own network, officiating system, scholarship limitations, etc...

The new (25 team) league could take a percentage of their increase in revenue and kick it down to help subsidize the other programs.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Bob Tyler learned how to cheat from Bear Bryant and Johnny Vaught. Two of the biggest cheaters out there- and of course we were the ones that got burned.

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The Kang and Dye got a LOT of pointers from Tha Bahr, too... A bunch of other coaches, too...

They all cheat... Some are just better and/or more committed...

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Originally Posted by TUSK

All of the above posts are accurate, for the most part... We just cull out the "haves"... Say the top 25 teams based on value, success, attendance, etc...

The remaining programs could set up their own network, officiating system, scholarship limitations, etc...

The new (25 team) league could take a percentage of their increase in revenue and kick it down to help subsidize the other programs.

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That's exactly what's coming, in may take 15 years, that minus kicking the money down to help the lower classifications the NCAA will probably not be a part of this set up. 20 years or so ago there was almost a split but the big 10 wouldn't move, now they won't be able to stop it any team that will go will leave for the revenue windfall.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

All of the above posts are accurate, for the most part... We just cull out the "haves"... Say the top 25 teams based on value, success, attendance, etc...

The remaining programs could set up their own network, officiating system, scholarship limitations, etc...

The new (25 team) league could take a percentage of their increase in revenue and kick it down to help subsidize the other programs.

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I just can't see this happening because of how it would effect other sports.

It sounds great in football, but it would be a disaster for other sports.

I could see power 5 separating but that would still leave us in the same spot we currently are in terms of a lack of competitive balance.

I just can't see the point of separating only 25 schools when it's much easier for everyone to just lower the scholarships.

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Originally Posted by Coursesuper

That's exactly what's coming,

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No it's not.

It's a pipedream that lacks an understanding of the unintended consequences.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I just can't see this happening because of how it would effect other sports.

It sounds great in football, but it would be a disaster for other sports.

I could see power 5 separating but that would still leave us in the same spot we currently are in terms of a lack of competitive balance.

I just can't see the point of separating only 25 schools when it's much easier for everyone to just lower the scholarships.

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Football would be in a separate "conference." Something similar happens on a smaller level with non-revenue sports. Florida's women's lacrosse team is in the AAC in that sport only. They were previously in the Big East. Notre Dame football is independent, but the rest of their sports are in the ACC. So similar stuff happens.

If a break happens in football, all Power 5 teams won't go. Probably 25 like Tusk said. The ones with the most potential revenue and name brand. I don't think that would be us. I just don't think our fans care quite that much about football. We are fair weather football fans but have always wanted to be a baseball school.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

No it's not.

It's a pipedream that lacks an understanding of the unintended consequences.

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You have no idea how close it was to happening before, the CFA thing almost happened it was very very close. Now that the networks are so much more in control of things its a real possibility, the possible revenue is astronomical compared to the monies that are being thrown around today.

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Originally Posted by Dawg2003

Football would be in a separate "conference." Something similar happens on a smaller level with non-revenue sports. Florida's women's lacrosse team is in the AAC in that sport only. They were previously in the Big East. Notre Dame football is independent, but the rest of their sports are in the ACC. So similar stuff happens.

If a break happens in football, all Power 5 teams won't go. Probably 25 like Tusk said. The ones with the most potential revenue and name brand. I don't think that would be us. I just don't think our fans care quite that much about football. We are fair weather football fans but have always wanted to be a baseball school.

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But that's not going to happen. The power 5 schools left out of that football conference would never agree to that.

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Originally Posted by Coursesuper

You have no idea how close it was to happening before, the CFA thing almost happened it was very very close. Now that the networks are so much more in control of things its a real possibility, the possible revenue is astronomical compared to the monies that are being thrown around today.

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I don't think it's ever been close to happening

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I don't think it's ever been close to happening

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It happened.

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Originally Posted by Coursesuper

It happened.

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Please explain

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

But that's not going to happen. The power 5 schools left out of that football conference would never agree to that.

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Why would the schools that are left have to agree to the other schools leaving?

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

The biggest issue outside of just the overall state of college football that we can?t change is our fans don?t like the style of football we are trying to play offensively. JoMo is playing a style I would expect from Ole Miss not us. We have lost our mindset of instilling our physical will on you that brought us to number 1 ranking.

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Disagree with this point entirely. I wanted to claw my eyes out every time it was 3rd and 3 and Mullen called for a QB power again thatvworks against usm but gets stuffed by bama every time.

[QUOTE=Coursesuper;1149863]

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Your one task there but I don't think scholarship reductions with have the affect many then they will.

Reducing the scholarship number doesn't benefit MSU or any other program trying to compete with the top of the heap. The kids that want to go to Alabama, LSU, Ohio State and so forth are still going to go there, the scholarship limit isn't going to more equality distribute talent. It's will only make schools like MSU less deep because we won't be able take any chances on a marginal recruit on our board because there will be no spot for that kid.

It will benefit the MAC, Sun Belt, AAC, CUSA and the FCS division.

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We'd get some guys that'd normally find a place at bama or Clemson or uga or LSU, and G5 guys would get some guys that normally would find a place at MSU or OM or Arkansas or Kentucky, FCS would get some guys that'd normally end up at usm or Memphis or Troy st.