Bo Bounds: Would Hud Be 5-0 Right Now?

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Originally Posted by BhamDawg

I just went back and looked at all the final scores in the the Mullen era. There was only one two-game stretch where we scored as few points as we have the last two weeks, it was last year against Georgia (31-3) & Auburn (49-10). His next lowest two-game total was in 2012 when we played Alabama & A&M, we scored 20.

So, are you saying Kentucky & Florida are two of the four best defenses we have seen in 10 years?

Quit giving excuses for this man, his offense is a damn train wreck right now and I don?t think he can admit it.

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Why is that so impossible to think that UF - who had an elite defense 2 years ago (#6 scoring D in country in '16) that quit on a dead shark coach in '17 - couldn't get back to a very high level with arguably a top 5 DC?
Grantham did the same thing for us last year. He took us from #93 to #26. UF has moved (so far) from #69 to #9.

And Kentucky - brought back 8 starters on defense from last year - two of whom (Allen and Mike Edwards) could have gone pro last year. It is a Senior laden defense that has improved every year under Stoops. Are they elite? Time will tell - but they have played at that level through 3 SEC games.

And again - I recognize that our offense is bad right now. I'm not claiming it isn't. But, we have played 2 teams that should be getting more credit then many are giving them.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Why is that so impossible to think that UF - who had an elite defense 2 years ago (#6 scoring D in country in '16) that quit on a dead shark coach in '17 - couldn't get back to a very high level with arguably a top 5 DC?
Grantham did the same thing for us last year. He took us from #93 to #26. UF has moved (so far) from #69 to #9.

And Kentucky - brought back 8 starters on defense from last year - two of whom (Allen and Mike Edwards) could have gone pro last year. It is a Senior laden defense that has improved every year under Stoops. Are they elite? Time will tell - but they have played at that level through 3 SEC games.

And again - I recognize that our offense is bad right now. I'm not claiming it isn't. But, we have played 2 teams that should be getting more credit then many are giving them.

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They both held us to 200 yards of offense. 2011 LSU is the 2nd best defense I've ever seen, and they gave up 260 a game. Florida and Kentucky both had their best defensive games this season vs us, and both have played an FCS team. You're really gonna throw your shoulder out if you keep reaching to help Moorhead. This offense is an abomination before God, so far... hopefully it changes Saturday

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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

I'll be the first to stick my hand in the air and say I was flat wrong about UK before we played them. They're legit good and are going to make a bowl easily, imo. They should beat Vandy and TN and they'll have a chance against Mizzou. Plus they still have MTSU and Louisville. They'll probably win 8 or 9 before it's all said and done.

That said, UF is exactly who I thought they were. A team that's decent on defense and bad on offense. They had no business coming into our house and winning, much less making us look like a clown show on offense. That's why people are so upset. I think we'd be in a much different frame of mind this week had Moorhead shown any growth and beaten FL. Instead, we look like we're going to struggle winning 6 in a year we should've won a minimum of 9.

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I don't know where the loses for Uk would be... the best teams they play are 1) UGA, 2) A&M/Mizzou, 3)A&M/Mizzou, 4) Florida, 5) State/SC, 6)State/SC.

They've beaten 4 5 and 6 all by double digits, I think they win one of A&M or Mizzou to get to 10 wins. I definitely don't see 4 loses from here on out

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Originally Posted by msstate7

They both held us to 200 yards of offense. 2011 LSU is the 2nd best defense I've ever seen, and they gave up 260 a game. Florida and Kentucky both had their best defensive games this season vs us, and both have played an FCS team. You're really gonna throw your shoulder out if you keep reaching to help Moorhead. This offense is an abomination before God, so far... hopefully it changes Saturday

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Guess you didn't see where he acknowledged the offense is bad right now and wasn't defending that.

Kinda hard to deny the stats of UF's and KY's defensive numbers this year. They aren't just crazy unbelievable or anything. No one is claiming that. It's not like he is making any of the numbers up. They may be a tad bit padded by how shotty we played them but they still had an answer for everything they've faced. That padding isn't helping them out that much.

Both those teams are currently put together as a whole better than we are right now. If you disagree you are in denial.

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Originally Posted by StateDawg44

Both those teams are currently put together as a whole better than we are right now. If you disagree you are in denial.

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So wait, you think Florida and Kentucky are more talented than us? Good God

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Originally Posted by msstate7

So wait, you think Florida and Kentucky are more talented than us? Good God

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Incredible how this has gone from "10-win season" to "what do you expect Moorhead to do with this crappy group of players".

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Originally Posted by bluelightstar

Incredible how this has gone from "10-win season" to "what do you expect Moorhead to do with this crappy group of players".

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Pretty pathetic

Kentucky is a poor man's 2017 state team. They wanna run and play defense. They beat our ass by being what we used to be

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Originally Posted by StateDawg44

Both those teams are currently playing better than we are right now. If you disagree you are in denial.

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FIFY

And that should embarrass us all.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

So wait, you think Florida and Kentucky are more talented than us? Good God

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Talent is not a word I used once in my post. But I did say, they are put together better than we are. Meaning, when it comes to the product on the field, they are clicking and playing better than us. They are clearly better than us at our current state. You're playing shoulda, coulda. Who cares about what we could've been? In 2 years no one is gonna be saying, "Yeah but what about the amount of talent that 2018 team had and squandered?" except you still probably. If anything that just sounds dumb. An AR-15 is a better gun in a long range gun fight than a pistol, but if it's jammed and operator can't unjam it then it might as well be a banana. We are said banana and not the working AR-15 you are pretending to be.

Whatever the reason you want to come up with, they both beat us fair and square and that is why we have a L next to those games. You can't argue with that.

Also I'm not saying our players have gone from world changers to garbage. The whole thing is we aren't playing smart football. Has nothing to do with the talent whether it's there or not. I definitely believe it is there.

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Originally Posted by bluelightstar

Incredible how this has gone from "10-win season" to "what do you expect Moorhead to do with this crappy group of players".

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From 9-3 to possibly 3-9. But it's the players. You just gotta shake your head.

The question shouldn't be would Hud be 5-0. The question is would Hud ever get us past where Mullen did.

We are all asking the wrong question and thinking short term. Yes it sucks this season hasn't turned out like we wanted. But the question we are supposed to be asking is will we surpass what Mullen did under Moorhead. The change was made with the long term in mind even though we had a talented team this year.

The question is can Moorhead take us to being a consistent contender which is something Mullen couldn't do. Ask yourself this. Would you sacrifice your expectations for this year if you knew from 2019 to 2023 we would never win fewer than 9 games?

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

The question shouldn't be would Hud be 5-0. The question is would Hud ever get us past where Mullen did.

We are all asking the wrong question and thinking short term. Yes it sucks this season hasn't turned out like we wanted. But the question we are supposed to be asking is will we surpass what Mullen did under Moorhead. The change was made with the long term in mind even though we had a talented team this year.

The question is can Moorhead take us to being a consistent contender which is something Mullen couldn't do. Ask yourself this. Would you sacrifice your expectations for this year if you knew from 2019 to 2023 we would never win fewer than 9 games?

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We will not be a consistent contender in the sec west for the foreseeable future.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

We will not be a consistent contender in the sec west for the foreseeable future.

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So I am assuming you are on the wagon of JoMo's offense doesn't work in the SEC no matter the players or execution? I am not going to go through the film but a lot of times it seems like one player is screwing up the play and it is a different player almost on every play. So it seems like we just can't get every player to execute at the same time whether it is one guy on the Oline missing a block or a WR not catching the ball or a QB not recognizing a safety blitz.

So is it JoMo's offense won't work or is it these coaches can't get the players to execute the plays correctly?

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

The question is can Moorhead take us to being a consistent contender which is something Mullen couldn't do. Ask yourself this. Would you sacrifice your expectations for this year if you knew from 2019 to 2023 we would never win fewer than 9 games?

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Let me pose this question: If we still can't pour piss out of a boot with this offense by the Egg Bowl what makes you think we never win fewer than 9 games starting next year?

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

So I am assuming you are on the wagon of JoMo's offense doesn't work in the SEC no matter the players or execution? I am not going to go through the film but a lot of times it seems like one player is screwing up the play and it is a different player almost on every play. So it seems like we just can't get every player to execute at the same time whether it is one guy on the Oline missing a block or a WR not catching the ball or a QB not recognizing a safety blitz.

So is it JoMo's offense won't work or is it these coaches can't get the players to execute the plays correctly?

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Unless we hire urban Meyer or Nick Saban, we won't be a year-in, year-our sec contender. If we hire the next saban/Meyer, they'll leave for a blue blood. We are the poorest program in the west, and we aren't gonna consistently compete with programs that have untold more advantages. We should shoot for contending every 4-5 years by continuing the RSing

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Originally Posted by msstate7

No state coach has ever taken over a team this talented. Joe fed the expectations.... know your ring size, fitz Heisman talk, no one has ever picked this offense up so quick, etc. He deserves every bit of the criticism

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The 'talent' on the team was overblown from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by testuser

The 'talent' on the team was overblown from the beginning.

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It was overblown by all state fans, media, nfl scouts, and even our current staff then. Now this could be true, or more likely, our staff just can't use the talent in a way that fits them. There's another explanation too... Mullen was just that damn good to win an "untalented" team

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Originally Posted by basedog

I know the season looks bad and may be bad the rest of the year but I've never seen a Coach get as much heat at Msu in year one as Moorhead. I have said several times I don't like what I have seen but it's year one.

I sure hope we beat Auburn to silent the crowd a little. I'm thinking it will be a close game because Auburn has issues as well.

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I think Moorhead's personality and demeanor make him more susceptible to the keyboard warriors.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Unless we hire urban Meyer or Nick Saban, we won't be a year-in, year-our sec contender. If we hire the next saban/Meyer, they'll leave for a blue blood. We are the poorest program in the west, and we aren't gonna consistently compete with programs that have untold more advantages. We should shoot for contending every 4-5 years by continuing the RSing

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When have we competed for the West since 2000? Mullen shit the bed in 2014 with a once in a generation QB. Mullen himself said he took us as far as he could, he admitted he would never beat Bama. Cohen hired a guy that he hoped would be able to compete with Bama by having explosive plays. It isn't like his offense only worked at lower levels and the Big12. The Big10 is more of a defense league so doing what he did there is impressive. Maybe trying to run the offense and being CEO is biting JoMo in the ass. Not many head coaches can call all the plays either Offense or Defense and be successful.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I think Moorhead's personality and demeanor make him more susceptible to the keyboard warriors.

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I think it's just his offense and overall performance. This board told me all offseason that joe was better than jimbo freaking Fisher. Our fanbase bought in hook, line, and sinker... joe just hasn't delivered on what he promised

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Originally Posted by msstate7

It was overblown by all state fans, media, nfl scouts, and even our current staff then. Now this could be true, or more likely, our staff just can't use the talent in a way that fits them. There's another explanation too... Mullen was just that damn good to win an "untalented" team

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I think our players believing the press is another issue. There is a reason Saban chews out reporters for writing stories about how good Bama is.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

When have we competed for the West since 2000? Mullen shit the bed in 2014 with a once in a generation QB. Mullen himself said he took us as far as he could, he admitted he would never beat Bama. Cohen hired a guy that he hoped would be able to compete with Bama by having explosive plays. It isn't like his offense only worked at lower levels and the Big12. The Big10 is more of a defense league so doing what he did there is impressive. Maybe trying to run the offense and being CEO is biting JoMo in the ass. Not many head coaches can call all the plays either Offense or Defense and be successful.

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Right. We won't compete in the west year-in, year-out

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I think our players believing the press is another issue. There is a reason Saban chews out reporters for writing stories about how good Bama is.

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Our head coach fed it... know your ring sizes and crap

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Originally Posted by StateDawg44

Guess you didn't see where he acknowledged the offense is bad right now and wasn't defending that.

Kinda hard to deny the stats of UF's and KY's defensive numbers this year. They aren't just crazy unbelievable or anything. No one is claiming that. It's not like he is making any of the numbers up. They may be a tad bit padded by how shotty we played them but they still had an answer for everything they've faced. That padding isn't helping them out that much.

Both those teams are currently put together as a whole better than we are right now. If you disagree you are in denial.

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Exactly.

Another point I am trying to make is that many are also making an assumption that the Dan Mullen Offense would just walk in and run all over Kentucky and Florida. Well, the book on how to beat State didn't change because Dan Mullen left. For 8 of the past 9 years, if you could lock down the MSU running game, you won. Forcing MSU into winning by throwing the ball was your best chance - either our OL wasn't built for pass pro, our QB's were not talented enough that we could win with throwing, or our WR's could not get separation, or a combination of all of these. These issues are structural, not schematic. Certain offensive schemes could mask it to a point - however, all of what I just listed were all the things we all recognized as limitations to Dan Mullen teams - and bitched about for years on this board. Some years, we over came it. Some years we struggled to win 6. Teams have learned this more over the last 2 years watching film on Fitz. Sell out to stop the run, and we don't have the passing game to beat you. They did the same thing to Chris Relf in 2011. They did it to Tyler Russell when our OL was absolute trash and got him killed nearly every game. They did it to Dak in 2015, and have done it to Fitz as well. The changes to the offense have exacerbated the issues - there is no denying that. But there is absolutely no guarantee that the Dan Mullen Offense would have done any differently.

What changes from year to year are what teams can match up to our deficiencies and force us to play their game instead of ours. And, I may be totally wrong about Kentucky and UF - and that is fine - it's just 17n football.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Our head coach fed it... know your ring sizes and crap

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And how many people on here complained for years "we don't have championship expectations so we will never have championship level teams".

I'm pretty sure I've seen that post 1,000,000,000,000 times.

Can't have it both ways.

Yeah I'd much rather have a new coach come in and play it safe and lack confidence.****

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Originally Posted by StateDawg44

Yeah I'd much rather have a new coach come in and play it safe and lack confidence.****

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This is so much better. Our games are so much fun. If you can't appreciate infinite bad punts after 3 and outs, well you just aren't a good fan

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Our head coach fed it... know your ring sizes and crap

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He has definitely not walked the walk yet. I like the confidence and from his record you would expect good to great results. For whatever reason it isn't working but I haven't seen anyone actually break down what is going wrong. All I have seen is "offense sux, fire him".

I remember watching Croom's offense and thinking a lot of the time there just wasn't anything there. WRs wouldn't be open or we were running and all the Oline made their blocks but we still only got 2 yards. I don't get the same feeling with this offense. It is more like our offense against USA where a player was just screwing up on every series. Oline just whiffing on blocks, WRs not catching open passes, or QB just overthrowing wide open guys or not seeing the TE that is alone on his hashmark.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

This is so much better. Our games are so much fun. If you can't appreciate infinite bad punts after 3 and outs, well you just aren't a good fan

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Yeah that's what I was saying. Yet another example of you making up words to justify the fact that you bought into everything and your expectations got the best of you and now your feelings are hurt. You just need something or someone else to blame or argue with. http://panicfreaks.org/images/emoticons/pouty.gif

I haven't said once that I'm overly optimistic but I damn sure am not coming up with hypothetical reasons that are really just impossible to prove to be the cause of the problem like they are facts. I'll be a fan of MSU at the beginning and the end of the game no matter the outcome and won't be bitching and moaning like you.

I'm elated that I am not as negative and pessimistic as you. It must be tiring.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

This whole fanbase will hate joe Moorhead if he loses the next 2. I don't think he'd ever recover

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We could look significantly improved and still end up losing to LSU and auburn. Both are more talented than Kentucky and Florida. Anyone expecting us to win these games has their head in the sand, losing them won't change a single thing about the opinion of moorhead I have right now.

I think his offense is a better offense than Mullen's offense. I think it's far more complex and requires a higher level of skill. Our guys heads are clearly swimming (especially the OL), and I just don't know if we have the WRs to get separation or the QB to deliver it consistently enough. Even on short passes, fitz consistently throws behind guys. Can't even count the number of swing passes and short crossing routes he's completed the pass but it's been on the back shoulder, causing the receiver to stop or slow his momentum to make the catch and pretty much eliminating any catch and run potential like those plays are designed to achieve. I think we are looking at a 6-6 ceiling this year at this point, let's see how keytaon develops and find out if he can be the guy next year, or if we need to start hoping Mayden or shrader can be the guy. Anything to give a spark cause right now we don't have it.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

He deserves every bit of criticism he's gotten. I think he can be good here m, but at very least he completely monkey 17ed the evaluation of this team and it's players.

Feels like the new staff was extremely arrogant and didn't quite respect what Mullen did here

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I'm wondering that myself. Remember how he mentioned several times that we hadn't had a winning SEC but once in the past X years? Kind of throwing shade at Mullen. Well, now Moorhead is staring right in the face of a losing SEC record.

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Originally Posted by smootness

Anyone who thinks Mullen loses to Kentucky with this team is insane.

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Not with same staff he has now. But if he has to hire each individually and has mostly never worked long with any of them then I believe he could've lost to KY.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Not with same staff he has now. But if he has to hire each individually and has mostly never worked long with any of them then I believe he could've lost to KY.

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And whose fault would it be if he made bad hires?

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Originally Posted by dawgs

We could look significantly improved and still end up losing to LSU and auburn. Both are more talented than Kentucky and Florida. Anyone expecting us to win these games has their head in the sand, losing them won't change a single thing about the opinion of moorhead I have right now.t.

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I'm worried we may not even score a touchdown against Auburn or LSU. We couldn't against Florida. Why would anyone think we could against Auburn LSU who have better defenses?

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Originally Posted by msstate7

This is so much better. Our games are so much fun. If you can't appreciate infinite bad punts after 3 and outs, well you just aren't a good fan

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So how many times have our special teams sucked under Mullen post year 2 or 3. 2014 wasn't stellar. Helped get us beat against Bama. We used to bitch about his special teams all the time. Then he gets his ass motivated to get out of town and he works at making sure they can help him do that.

Funny how last year all of sudden he scrambles around, hires a good DC, scrambles around to recruit a bunch of Jucos to fill in holes on D, our Oline play improves a lot from 2016, etc. How come he didn't do stuff like that every damn year he was here.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

So how many times have our special teams sucked under Mullen post year 2 or 3. 2014 wasn't stellar. Helped get us beat against Bama. We used to bitch about his special teams all the time. Then he gets his ass motivated to get out of town and he works at making sure they can help him do that.

Funny how last year all of sudden he scrambles around, hires a good DC, scrambles around to recruit a bunch of Jucos to fill in holes on D, our Oline play improves a lot from 2016, etc. How come he didn't do stuff like that every damn year he was here.

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We won 34 his last 4 years. You taking the O/U on 34 wins the next 4 years?

That's 8.5 wins a year. With losses to OM every good year we had. And blown out by Bama and AU except in 2015. That's decent but he could've done better IMO if he had hustled a little more. He jetting off to Europe and taking whole summer off pre 2016. Thought he would be out in 2015 but Manny left him high and dry when Richt got Miami job. So he said "F*** 2016" I guess. Then he gets he ass chewed and we "don't appreciate him" winning against 4 sorry OOC, 2 pitiful East teams, and 2 pitiful West teams.

ETA: Go take you anti-separation anxiety meds ****

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

That's 8.5 wins a year. With losses to OM every good year we had. And blown out by Bama and AU except in 2015. That's decent but he could've done better IMO if he had hustled a little more. He jetting off to Europe and taking whole summer off pre 2016. Thought he would be out in 2015 but Manny left him high and dry when Richt got Miami job. So he said "F*** 2016" I guess. Then he gets he ass chewed and we "don't appreciate him" winning against 4 sorry OOC, 2 pitiful East teams, and 2 pitiful West teams.

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So that's an over?

Mullen would have had us 5-0..... then we lose at LSU, Bama and Ole Miss.