Lebron's Cavs biggest underdog in NBA Finals history

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Originally Posted by Pit Bull

Chris something or another?

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Weber.

Lebron is a great player...top 3 most likely. But he's a physical freak compared to his peers, much like shaq, so I don't hold him to the same level as some of the other greats.

He does like to play the victim, tho not more than a lot of other players in today's game. I also don't think he's an overly intelligent player and he tries to over come that by over doing it in interviews and trying to control a team or franchise.

As someone said earlier, if he wants to prove his greatness at an all time level he needs to go to the west and play more than 1 good team in post season.

All that said...how crazy is it that they can over turn a block/charge by replay but only if it's close to the restricted area?!?!? It was clearly a block but I don't agree with the rule there.

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Originally Posted by Pit Bull

One of the dumbest.....remember when the Michigan player forgot he had no timeouts left and called timeout in the waning moments of the NC game? Chris something or another?.....one of their Fab 5 players. Makes me wonder if the coaches in each of these situations should have quickly yelled out or communicated somehow what needed to be done if ...........so and so happened. Coach and teammates should have been yelling "Tie Game" and to put it back up if you get the rebound! Some blame to go around to everyone IMO.

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It's in my post. Dumbest play since Chris Webber.

What's an NBA?

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

Lebron is a great player...top 3 most likely. But he's a physical freak compared to his peers, much like shaq, so I don't hold him to the same level as some of the other greats.

He does like to play the victim, tho not more than a lot of other players in today's game. I also don't think he's an overly intelligent player and he tries to over come that by over doing it in interviews and trying to control a team or franchise.

As someone said earlier, if he wants to prove his greatness at an all time level he needs to go to the west and play more than 1 good team in post season.

All that said...how crazy is it that they can over turn a block/charge by replay but only if it's close to the restricted area?!?!? It was clearly a block but I don't agree with the rule there.

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The thing about LeBron is he is a physical freak who works harder than anyone in the NBA. Prior to this year, he'd made 7 straight NBA Finals - the equivalent to an extra 2 NBA seasons over those 7 years - so at age 33 he plays all 82 regular season games, the most minutes in the NBA, and makes the Finals for an 8th straight year.

I think his basketball IQ is really good. He's not out there playing hero ball. Look at the last possession of regulation: he's got the ball for the last shot, and when he sees George Hill break loose he guns it in there for the assist (which Hill got fouled to prevent the shot). He's always looking for open teammates. He's incredible at timing blocked shots. To me, he seems like a really smart player who is focused on winning first....high IQ.

Finally, I think his greatness has been proved beyond measure. His final two years in Cleveland before going to Miami, they won 60+ and had the 1 seed. When he leaves they win 19, 21, 24, and 33. He comes back and they go to the NBA Finals....four straight years. He's beaten the Warriors and the Spurs. But he'll probably go the the West and challenge those great teams the next couple of years.

At any rate, it doesn't matter where he ranks. He's clearly the best right now and it's fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by BayouDawg

Bosh was a stretch 4 so that?s typically how they play.

Wade wasn?t past his prime when LeBron first went. I would say he was past his prime in Lebron?s last two years in Miami though. Lebron was lucky to leave Miami with two rings. The spurs had them beat in ?13 but Ray Allen bailed them out.

So yes Lebron and KDs moves were similar. I thought it was smart for KD to leave OKC. OKC will never win a title with Westbrook. Westbrook is a great player but he?s a choke
Artist and ball hog.

And KD isn?t nearly as good as Lebron so he needs a strong supporting cast. LeBron is the best player in the world but I despise his entitled attitude and the way he tries to play the victim.

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KD was/is the 2nd best player in the world and he joined the 73-9 Warriors who couldnt beat a healthy LeBron James team. That is the most BITCHmade move in the history of the NBA. You should be arrested for comparing LeBrons move to Miami as even close to similar.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

You may not like LeBron, but you have to respect the piss out of what he did tonight. He's carrying his team by himself and almost single handedly beat a Warriors team with 4 all-stars. The officiating and JR cost them the game. Terrible.

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exactly. I don't care for LeBron personally but he is a bad ass. Because I don't like him personally, I pull for him to lose. Kinda like I always pulled for Tiger to lose but still respected the hell out of his Ruthian run. I'm actually starting to like Tiger these days because he's starting to smile more and show some humility on the course and act more like a gentleman. If he starts winning again, I hope he keeps on smiling instead of the showboating angry fist pumps.

How many of y'all now think LeBron is headed for Michael Jordan status in the NBA history books?

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Originally Posted by Bully13

exactly. I don't care for LeBron personally but he is a bad ass. Because I don't like him personally, I pull for him to lose. Kinda like I always pulled for Tiger to lose but still respected the hell out of his Ruthian run. I'm actually starting to like Tiger these days because he's starting to smile more and show some humility on the course and act more like a gentleman. If he starts winning again, I hope he keeps on smiling instead of the showboating angry fist pumps.

How many of y'all now think LeBron is headed for Michael Jordan status in the NBA history books?

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Already there. MJ leaves a team they win 55 games. LBJ leaves and they are instantly in the lottery.

ETA: LeBron is getting guarded by the Boston Plumbers like MJ was.

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Originally Posted by CarolinaDawgs

Already there. MJ leaves a team they win 55 games. LBJ leaves and they are instantly in the lottery.

ETA: LeBron is getting guarded by the Boston Plumbers like MJ was.

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Disagree. MJ was 6 for 6 in the finals. Lebron doesn't play anybody worth a dern until the finals. That was not the case for Jordan. Lebron is great but cannot be the greatest with his finals winning percentage. And spare me about how he's made so many finals...if he had to go thru much of an eastern conference that wouldn't be the case.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

Disagree. MJ was 6 for 6 in the finals. Lebron doesn't play anybody worth a dern until the finals. That was not the case for Jordan. Lebron is great but cannot be the greatest with his finals winning percentage. And spare me about how he's made so many finals...if he had to go thru much of an eastern conference that wouldn't be the case.

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Youre right Scottie Pippen did go 6 for 6 in the finals.

MJ people know that the Finals Record is the last straw to grasp too, because its hard to argue against. But literally everything about LeBron is better. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Natty's are important. Not discounting them one bit. I just think other factors are often overlooked. Dan Marino, Dan Fouts and Charles Barkley come to mind.

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Originally Posted by CarolinaDawgs

KD was/is the 2nd best player in the world and he joined the 73-9 Warriors who couldnt beat a healthy LeBron James team. That is the most BITCHmade move in the history of the NBA. You should be arrested for comparing LeBrons move to Miami as even close to similar.

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Oh I gotcha. It is ok for LeBron to chase championships jumping from team to team but not for anyone else.

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Originally Posted by BayouDawg

Oh I gotcha. It is ok for LeBron to chase championships jumping from team to team but not for anyone else.

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Yup Lebron hopped over to the 33-49 cavs to chase rings. What a bum.

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Originally Posted by CarolinaDawgs

Youre right Scottie Pippen did go 6 for 6 in the finals.

MJ people know that the Finals Record is the last straw to grasp too, because its hard to argue against. But literally everything about LeBron is better. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

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MJ led the league in scoring 10 times. Bron Bron has led the league in scoring once. I think people forget just how otherworldly Jordan was. It is difficult to compare players from different eras. LeBron is great but I don?t think you can definitively say he?s better than Jordan.

Your argument that LeBron is better than Jordan because the cavs wouldn?t sniff the playoffs without him is apples to oranges at best. Tom Brady was injured for a full season and his team still went 11-5. Peyton Manning was injured for a full season and his team went 2-14. Does this mean Peyton was better than Tom Brady?

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Originally Posted by CarolinaDawgs

Yup Lebron hopped over to the 33-49 cavs to chase rings. What a bum.

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Yea Kyrie and Kevin Love are total trash. You act like he went to play for Jackie moon and the Flint Tropics. He goes where he can form a big 3.

I personally don?t have a problem with KD leaving OKC for GS. He knew he?d never get to the finals with Westbrook. KD also doesn?t have an alpha dog personality so it is easier for him to mesh with other stars and he needs other stars around him because he is a little more passive than LeBron.

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Originally Posted by BayouDawg

Yea Kyrie and Kevin Love are total trash. You act like he went to play for Jackie moon and the Flint Tropics.

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That shit made my spew my drink this morning. Good one!

I kind of like watching Draymond. But I'm a Warriors fan. One thing is for sure, Draymond hustles his butt off and does a good job of getting into the other team's heads. Every good team has this type of role player. Pistons in the 80's had Bill Lambier. Bulls in the 90's had Rodman. He is also there for his teammates. He is very loyal to his team and his teammates. I guarantee you that his teammates loves Draymond. And that little clapping episode he did when Thompson got his technical may have gotten Thompson benched for game #2. I call that smart.

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Originally Posted by msudawglb

I kind of like watching Draymond. But I'm a Warriors fan. One thing is for sure, Draymond hustles his butt off and does a good job of getting into the other team's heads. Every good team has this type of role player. Pistons in the 80's had Bill Lambier. Bulls in the 90's had Rodman. He is also there for his teammates. He is very loyal to his team and his teammates. I guarantee you that his teammates loves Draymond. And that little clapping episode he did when Thompson got his technical may have gotten Thompson benched for game #2. I call that smart.

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Dude, Draymond is a really good player. People talk about Steph, KD, and Klay as the "Big 3", but really it's a big 4, with including Draymond.

Also their bench is probably the best in the league.

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Originally Posted by BayouDawg

MJ led the league in scoring 10 times. Bron Bron has led the league in scoring once. I think people forget just how otherworldly Jordan was. It is difficult to compare players from different eras. LeBron is great but I don?t think you can definitively say he?s better than Jordan.

Your argument that LeBron is better than Jordan because the cavs wouldn?t sniff the playoffs without him is apples to oranges at best. Tom Brady was injured for a full season and his team still went 11-5. Peyton Manning was injured for a full season and his team went 2-14. Does this mean Peyton was better than Tom Brady?

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All these MJ stans care about is scoring. Jesus give it a rest. LeBron is a completely different animal. Also, yes i would argue Peyton Manning is better. Wouldve been just as if not more successful in the Patriots organization. You literally made my point. Thank you sir. Watch the Pats not miss a beat when Brady leaves if they keep BB. Also Jordan played against a bunch of scrawny white dudes. The athletes are far and away better and so is LeBron.

PS--Dont forget to yell "get off my lawn!" later today.

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Originally Posted by CarolinaDawgs

All these MJ stans care about is scoring. Jesus give it a rest. LeBron is a completely different animal. Also, yes i would argue Peyton Manning is better. Wouldve been just as if not more successful in the Patriots organization. You literally made my point. Thank you sir. Watch the Pats not miss a beat when Brady leaves if they keep BB. Also Jordan played against a bunch of scrawny white dudes. The athletes are far and away better and so is LeBron.

PS--Dont forget to yell "get off my lawn!" later today.

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Jordan was 3 times steals leader and was the defensive player of the year once. He made the all defensive team numerous times.
The NBA was a lot rougher back then. Bron Bron?s little temper tantrums every time someone sneezes in him would?ve been fun to watch back then. And by the way I?m a mellinial but choose to think independently instead of doing whatever pop culture shoves down my throat.

And I agree that Peyton Manning was better than Brady but I can?t prove that. Brady has a lot more jewelry making his case.

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Originally Posted by BayouDawg

I?m a mellinial but choose to think independently instead of doing whatever pop culture shoves down my throat.

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https://media2.giphy.com/media/Q09lT...-downsized.gif

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

https://media2.giphy.com/media/Q09lT...-downsized.gif

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Lol your GIFs are great. But yes, my generation had LeBron shoved down our throats constantly. It probably would have been just as bad with Jordan if social media was around then as well.

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Originally Posted by BayouDawg

Lol your GIFs are great. But yes, my generation had LeBron shoved down our throats constantly. It probably would have been just as bad with Jordan if social media was around then as well.

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I don't get it. How is he shoved down your throat? He's the best player in the game of basketball, and the best player of his generation, by a lot. Generational greats get talked about, their game celebrated, and their legacy analyzed. What are people supposed to do, ignore it? If you want more Jordan, watch ESPN Classic, lol.

Lebron averages 2 more assists per game than Jordan over his career. He also averages 4 less points per game. You do the math. Lebron could easily give up 2 assists per game and take it to the rack to get 4 more points per game.

Here's the thing about the finals. Lebron was the worse team in the majority of his finals appearances. Jordan's team was the best every time. Jordan was 1-9 his first 3 years in the playoffs. Jordan only went to 6 finals. Lebron 8 straight. You can clamor on about the East being weak, but Lebron has played 70 more games already than Jordan (if you take away the garbage years with the Wizards it's closer to 150 games). He has WAY more mileage on his body. Lebron is 20th all time in minutes played. Jordan is 31st.

Lebron has taken far worse teams to the finals, done it by putting significantly more minutes and miles on his body, and is most definitely the more well rounded player. And to me Jordan should get counted off for playing baseball for a year. Plus he only played 17 the next year. What would another 2 years of pro basketball done to him and how would thise extra years on his body affected those next 3 championships? I don't care how weak the East is. 8 straight finals appearances is ridiculous and it's something Jordan never did.

To me Lebron is the best of all time. He's the more well rounded player, he's had infinitely more pressure on him than Jordan ever dreamed about having. Jordan was the better shooter. Probably more clutch. But Lebrons greatness goes deeper than Jordan. Lebrons ability to take average players and make them so much more is one of the most impressive things I've seen. Jordan never had to carry any team. He had a very similar nucleus for many of his championships. Lebron has had a revolving door.

Lebron is going to lose another finals and that will be a knock against him even though his team is the biggest underdog in the history of he NBA. How is championships won a fair comparison with Lebron having to overcome that?

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

I don't get it. How is he shoved down your throat? He's the best player in the game of basketball, and the best player of his generation, by a lot. Generational greats get talked about, their game celebrated, and their legacy analyzed. What are people supposed to do, ignore it? If you want more Jordan, watch ESPN Classic, lol.

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Like I said I?m a spurs fan. But I probably shouldn?t hate LeBron as much as I do. When I get older I?ll probably wish I had enjoyed his run a little more.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

Lebron averages 2 more assists per game than Jordan over his career. He also averages 4 less points per game. You do the math. Lebron could easily give up 2 assists per game and take it to the rack to get 4 more points per game.

Here's the thing about the finals. Lebron was the worse team in the majority of his finals appearances. Jordan's team was the best every time. Jordan was 1-9 his first 3 years in the playoffs. Jordan only went to 6 finals. Lebron 8 straight. You can clamor on about the East being weak, but Lebron has played 70 more games already than Jordan (if you take away the garbage years with the Wizards it's closer to 150 games). He has WAY more mileage on his body. Lebron is 20th all time in minutes played. Jordan is 31st.

Lebron has taken far worse teams to the finals, done it by putting significantly more minutes and miles on his body, and is most definitely the more well rounded player. And to me Jordan should get counted off for playing baseball for a year. Plus he only played 17 the next year. What would another 2 years of pro basketball done to him and how would thise extra years on his body affected those next 3 championships? I don't care how weak the East is. 8 straight finals appearances is ridiculous and it's something Jordan never did.

To me Lebron is the best of all time. He's the more well rounded player, he's had infinitely more pressure on him than Jordan ever dreamed about having. Jordan was the better shooter. Probably more clutch. But Lebrons greatness goes deeper than Jordan. Lebrons ability to take average players and make them so much more is one of the most impressive things I've seen. Jordan never had to carry any team. He had a very similar nucleus for many of his championships. Lebron has had a revolving door.

Lebron is going to lose another finals and that will be a knock against him even though his team is the biggest underdog in the history of he NBA. How is championships won a fair comparison with Lebron having to overcome that?

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One could argue the reason he has a revolving door around him is because he doesn?t work well with others. I mean hes basically a very talented Jackie moon player coach. Now every time I see him throw the chalk up I?m gonna be picturing him saying ?let?s get tropical?

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

Lebron averages 2 more assists per game than Jordan over his career. He also averages 4 less points per game. You do the math. Lebron could easily give up 2 assists per game and take it to the rack to get 4 more points per game.

Here's the thing about the finals. Lebron was the worse team in the majority of his finals appearances. Jordan's team was the best every time. Jordan was 1-9 his first 3 years in the playoffs. Jordan only went to 6 finals. Lebron 8 straight. You can clamor on about the East being weak, but Lebron has played 70 more games already than Jordan (if you take away the garbage years with the Wizards it's closer to 150 games). He has WAY more mileage on his body. Lebron is 20th all time in minutes played. Jordan is 31st.

Lebron has taken far worse teams to the finals, done it by putting significantly more minutes and miles on his body, and is most definitely the more well rounded player. And to me Jordan should get counted off for playing baseball for a year. Plus he only played 17 the next year. What would another 2 years of pro basketball done to him and how would thise extra years on his body affected those next 3 championships? I don't care how weak the East is. 8 straight finals appearances is ridiculous and it's something Jordan never did.

To me Lebron is the best of all time. He's the more well rounded player, he's had infinitely more pressure on him than Jordan ever dreamed about having. Jordan was the better shooter. Probably more clutch. But Lebrons greatness goes deeper than Jordan. Lebrons ability to take average players and make them so much more is one of the most impressive things I've seen. Jordan never had to carry any team. He had a very similar nucleus for many of his championships. Lebron has had a revolving door.

Lebron is going to lose another finals and that will be a knock against him even though his team is the biggest underdog in the history of he NBA. How is championships won a fair comparison with Lebron having to overcome that?

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4th paragraph...wow.

Were you alive in the 90s? How can you even hint at the fact that Jordan didn't make those around him better?!? How many rings did pippen win without him? How about these all time greats...BJ Armstrong, Stacy king, bill winnington, luc longley, tony kucoc, Steve Kerr, Ron Harper...ur rite lebron had much worse players on his teams: wade, bosh, don't forget the championship that ray Allen won for him, love, kyrie, Thompson.

I'll be glad to do a player by player breakdown on the championship teams as well as the talent on the teams Jordan and lebron beat on their way to their titles or losses in lebrons case. Hint: it's not gonna end in lebrons favor.

Lebron is an all time great as he is a physical freak. I'd take Jordan or Kobe myself. Their mental capacity and toughness far outweighs what lebron has in his physically God given gifts.