I think Jackie could?ve managed at least 3 SEC wins a year, plus the 4 cupcakes Mullins played. That?s at leaat 7 wins right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
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I think Jackie could?ve managed at least 3 SEC wins a year, plus the 4 cupcakes Mullins played. That?s at leaat 7 wins right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
Let's back that up and look at where we were when Jackie took over vs when Mullen did. In 1992- we were basically looked at by recruits as being the same as La Tech, Memphis, etc. Our facilities were awful. Our stadium seated 35K.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
Mullen took over in a time of an elevated SEC that was getting its own network. Bigger stadium, mo momey, mo money, mo money...State was no longer looked at as being comparable to Memphis or La Tech anymore
I don't disagree, and like I said earlier I like Jackie and am very appreciative of what he did for MSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
The SEC network started in 2014. Mullen took over in 09.
Lastly, Pre Saban LSU from 1992-1999 while Jackie was at State had an overall record of 44-46. We were 1-7 in those 8 meetings (and we only got the 1 due to there being no instant replay) including a 41-6 beat down to a 4-7 LSU team in the 98' SECW championship season.
That's the point, they performed similarly with the Kang having higher highs and lower lows. Muffins had a tougher SEC but Kang played tougher OOC schedules.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption
Nobody isn't giving him his due, what are you talking aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption
I give credit to Merlot for leaving when he did, instead of getting a bad attitude and giving up at the end like Kang. And it was headed that direction, see the emphasis on JUCOs
Dak's red zone pics against Bama did us in, he didn't play like a Heisman contender that dayQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I'm convinced some of that was Merlot though, I think he rubbed off on the team
Dan was feasting on minnows and his record is terrible in games with the spread less than 10 in his favor. You could say the Mullen factor is -6 to the opposition. Phil Steel keeps that kind of data.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Mullen will be a Saban ?analyst? in two/three years. But if I were Saban, I would rather have Freeze as an analyst. Freeze always went straight for Saban throat when playing Bama.
While the network didnt launch until 2014- there was a good 2 years before it launched of SEC coaches selling it to recruits.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
The SEC was still the SEC in the 90's. Auburn went undefeated once and was solid. Bama won the NC in 1992. OM was consistent with Tubbs and Cutcliffe. It just didnt have the 1 dominant team as it does now. Auburn has had losing seasons as has OM during Mullen's tenure. UPig has had losing seasons during Mullen's tenure just as they did in the 90's.
In the 9 year periods from 1992-2000 and 2009-2017 every team in the SECW except Ole Miss (Excluding AM) is better from 09-17.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
The SECW was for Mullen what the SECE was for Jackie. Mullen dealt with Bama, Auburn, and LSU every year relatively equivalent to how Tennessee, Florida, and Georgia were in the 90s.
Jackie in these 9 years played the eventual national champion or national runner up twice. Bama 92' and UT 98'. Mullen played the national champ or national runner up 10 times.
The levels of competition aren't even close.
The TD was very close and could have been overturned but I have seen worse not overturned. I will say without a shadow of doubt that LSU the next year was given a TD by the refs. LSU scored a TD with Eugene Clinton the only one in the endzone with the ball. The LSU player somehow scored a TD from around the 4 yard line while the ball crossed the goal line. I would think that more than made up for it since that game doesn't go into overtime without that TD.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
I?ll always remember JWS as accomplishing more than Mullen. Mullen is a solid coach though. Very good QB coach.
JWS showed we could win a Championship in football. We were less than a quarter away from winning the SEC. Dan showed us we could consistently compete for bowl games. Both have built the program to where hopefully Coach JoeMo will take it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
UPig is the same now as it was in 90's- 4 losing seasons in that span but an SEC West co-title vs 3 losing seasons 2009-2017Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
Auburn had 2 losing seasons in that 90's span with 4 top 15 finishes- including 1 undefeated season. Auburn has 2 last place West finishes in the Mullen-era
OM had 2 losing seasons in the Jackie-era 90's- but had 3 in the Mullen era
All thats a wash....LSU and Bama are certainly better tho.
The 90's also had a tougher East- which made those games tougher- as opposed to being the easier games as the power of the SEC has shifted to the West. Did Mullen play a tougher West? Sure. Did Mullen start at a higher point than Jackie to equip him to meet those demands? Absolutely.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
Dan's SEC and especially SEC West were as strong as any division has been... ever.
Jackie won while LSU & Bama were WAY down from what they've been the last 10 years, and while Auburn had some dips.
The East was the bear back then and Jackie avoided playing even 1 of UF, UGA, and UT in many years.
Dan won 6 games because he loaded up with 4 La tech’s, trashy UK, and beat Ark/OM, or aTm. Not that hard. JWS played a tougher NC schedule. I’ll give Dan credit, he was a good developer, but if he was half as good as he thought he was, we’d of won 2 Titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofozarka
Dan was 2-16 vs Bama and LSU...Jackie had a couple more overall. But it still comes down to games vs the rest of the SEC when judging them. Games vs Bama and LSU have never been the way to judge our programQuote:
Originally Posted by sonofozarka
As opposed to Jackie? First of all we always play UK no matter what. This wasn't a scheduling tactic by Mullen. Also, Jackie lost to UK in the 98 SECW Champ season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog1
Next here is a list of all non conference opponents from 1992-2000
1992
Texas
Memphis
Ark St
1993
Tulane
Ark St
Mem
1994
Mem
Ark St.
Tulane
1995
Baylor
NE Louisiana
Memphis
1996
La Tech
Memphis
NE Lousiana
1997
Memphis
NE Louisiana
UCF
1998
Memphis
E Tenn St.
Ok St
1999
Ok St
MTSU
Memphis
2000
BYU
Memphis
MTSU
So in his first nine years Jackie played a total 3 power 5 teams:
1992 Texas 6-5
1995 Baylor 7-4
1998 Ok St. 5-6 (Beat State SECW Champs)
1999 Ok St. 5-6
Notice that Jackie only got 3 non-conference to Mullen's 4 gimmie wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
Yeah and notice all the cupcakes, I'm sure he would have scheduled a 4th if it were allowed
During sherrill tenure, sec West won 1 natty (1992 bama). During Mullen tenure, sec West won 6 natties, 2 other west teams played in championship game, and bama lost in playoff game.
those teams werent cupcakes when Jackie took over and were on our level in both money and facilitiesQuote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
I wish you’d point to anywhere in my posts and show me where I blamed Mullen for playing UK. You won’t find anything. You said JWS wouldn’t win more than 6 games now, and I said JWS would win 7 games at least once. That?s all.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
That really doesnt matter- State wasnt beating LSU or Bama no matter who coached usQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Bama won the title in 1992, finished 13th in 93, 4th in 94, 21st in 95, 11th in 96, and 8th in 99
Auburn was undefeated in 1993, 9th in 94, 21st in 1995, 24th in 1996, 11th in 97, and 15th in 2000
Florida played for the title in 1995
Florida won it in 1996
Tenn won it in 1997
Stop acting like the SEC was any different then. Only difference now is Bama
You really think the sec west was as good when sherrill was here as Mullen? Lol... during Mullen tenure, what sec west school made the sec championship as a less than 10 win team?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
teams played 1 less game then and also there were ties.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
The question is not who wins the league- its the strength of the league top to bottom. As I said- We rarely beat Bama or LSU under Jackie- and we rarely beat them now. So nothing has changed for us on that front. The SEC is no different to us in that aspect
SEC West Champ-
1992- Bama- national champion
1993- Bama- 8-2-1 (less one win because of scheduling plus a tie)
1994- Bama 11-0
1995- UPig- 8-3 would have been 9-3 overall today...6-2 in the West
1996- Bama and LSU were 9-2...Bama went...would be 10-2 today
1997- Auburn was 9-2...would have been 10-2 today
1998- State- 8-3 would have been 9-3 today....6-2 in the West
1999- Bama 9-2- would have been 10-2 today
But again- the strength of the SEC is top to bottom. Not what the top team is. Hell, you got people around the country today calling the SEC weak except for Bama until Georgia won this year
Maybe now they call it weak, but up until a year of 2 ago, the west was very strong top to bottomQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
2009- UPig, Auburn, and State 3-5 in the SECQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
2010- OM was 1-7
2011- OM was 0-8 and State 2-6
2012- OM 3-5, Upig 2-6, and Auburn 0-8
2013- OM and State 3-5, Upig 0-8
2014- A&M 3-5 and UPig 2-6
2015- Auburn 2-6...strong year
2016- UPig and State 3-5, OM 2-6
2017- OM 3-5 and UPig 1-7
Why is this better than the 1990's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5049
Uh what? This thread is full of folks trying every way they can to NOT give Mullen credit for raising our program another level. I thought his taking the job at Florida was dumb as Hell but I recognize that he did a lot of great things for us, and I think that many of the posters in this thread are romanticizing Sherrill's run here and forgetting about some of the atrocious freaking seasons we had to put up with while he was our coach - '93, '95, '01, '02, and '03.
He was a good coach, and he was responsible for a lot of memorable wins, but Mullen ran a better program in a tougher era. The numbers don't lie.
How is this era tougher? Thats what I'm arguing. Bama is still winning the West now like it did in the 1990's- so why is it tougher in the SEC now? Hell, now with all the money we have a top half budget 1/3 budget in college football. in the 1990's? We werent top half.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption
1992- Bama won the NC
1993- Auburn was unbeaten
1994- Bama won the West at 11-0
1995- Florida lost in the NC game
1996- Florida won the NC
1997- Tenn won the NC
How is now any tougher than then?
Are you honestly trying to say that a division that has produced 6 national championships in 9 years as well as two runner-ups is equivalent to a division that produced 1 national champion (okay Auburn had two undefeated seasons as well) in Sherrill's 13 seasons?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I imagine the SEC East teams say the same thing about UK and Vandy.Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg
I love Jackie. I played under him but Dan was/is better. Jackie always had good defenses and terrible to below average offenses. He had better FG kickers and good punters. Dan had more balanced teams with good offensive and defensive teams. FG teams never were reliable but it's not even close. Mullen had actual teams. Jackie had defenses. They crazy thing is Jackie had overall better talent than Mullen and didn't use it properly.
I'm saying the division is more than 1 team. Because Gonzaga wins their division every year and is nationally ranked in basketball- does that make their division tougher than the SEC? You are equating one dominant team in a division as making the overall division tougher for some reason. I'm saying nothing has changed for us- we rarely beat Bama or LSU under Sherrill and nothing changed under Mullen. Still just as tough for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption
Both Jackie and Dan's teams played the teams that they were scheduled to play. I appreciate most of what each of them did for State, but I sat in Atlanta ahead for the SEC Championship with about a quarter to go with a Jackie coached team. Never happened with Dan, even when we were #1 for about 5 weeks. Just sayin.
No way the '99 TD would have been overturned against LSU. The runner was in a mass of humanity at the goal line. I've watched that replay 10 times and still can't tell for sure where the ball was when Gibson's knee touched because of the crowd and because he was on top of players. Now one of the TDs LSU scored against us in Baton Rouge in 2000 ABSOLUTELY would have been overturned with replay today where we batted the ball out of the RB's hand at the 1 yard line and it went flying through the back of the end zone. That play was out in the wide open and should have been called correct live if it weren't for biased SEC officiating. Given that game went to OT and we lost I'm going to say that was one LSU victory that was stolen from Sherrill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe