It is certainly easier to win a natty at Florida than here, but only 2 coaches have done it... not counting 1911. Is Mullen on spurrier and urban level? More likely he is a better than McE, but nowhere close to spurrier and urban
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It is certainly easier to win a natty at Florida than here, but only 2 coaches have done it... not counting 1911. Is Mullen on spurrier and urban level? More likely he is a better than McE, but nowhere close to spurrier and urban
While I agree, I think the cat is out of the bag about how he really feels for MSU, and it's nothing new. Because of that, I dont think Mullen will leave the kind of legacy that people originally presumed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Mullen and crew were very good at evaluating talent that had yet to mature or needed a position change
They were not very good at closing and getting signatures in close battles for top prospects. Thats not going to change at Fla
Here is the problem with Cousin Eddie at Fl. When he recruited at MSU, he did a great job at finding players in the shadows of small towns in MS, LA, and AL and then putting them in an environment (weight room, cafeteria, coaching) to develop them like they never ever could have dreamed of at their small high schools.
HOWEVER, at FL, most of the players he is recruiting are 4 and 5 *s who are also being courted by FSU, MIAMI, BAMA, UGA, CLEMSON, OSU, and AUB. He can't compete with those guys and his little gimmicks do not work. He will get some talent at UF simply because of the location and history. However, they will not be as patient with him there and he will not last long unless he develops a QB every 2-3 years that can win the heisman.
If Dan has to negatively recruit against MSU for talent, he shouldn't even bother unpacking his shorts or sweet kicks...
Is this a slight?Quote:
Originally Posted by TUSK
No, sorry if you took it that way.... Mullen needs to worry about UGA, LSU, FSU, not MSU, IMO....Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Agreed. I don't necessarily like saying it but I think he'll be fine. Year 3 Kirby will have a problem on his hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by TUSK
The CC couldn?t beat OM on probation in recruiting Battles. What makes you think they?ll be able to beat all the programs going into Florida? Hell, Hev even managed to run off two of their top three OL prospects in less than two months. That shit show will continue, but now on a channel with more eyes viewing.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Exactly. Just because Florida has a lot of in state talent it doesn't mean that it's easy to recruit there.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEasyDawg
In some ways it may be more difficult than it is at MSU. No question there will be more pressure on Dan to recruit well there.
When did he go against Ole Miss on probation? This year? This last class he put together was one of the best he's put together. The dude develops talent. There is enough talent in Florida that he'll be fine. Heck, they were #14 this year with only 2 months being there. He may never be #1 In recruiting but averaging around #10 will happen at Florida. Again, on top of that he develops talent. He'll be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
The question is will Dan's "fine" be good enough at Florida? They just fired a coach who went to the SEC Championship Game twice the past three years.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
The reality is Florida wants a Saban/Harbaugh/Meyer type of hire and that to me is why all of this started in the first place. They fired a competent coach to try to hire Chip Kelly. When that didn't work they went after Scott Frost.....and then Mike Gundy....and finally Dan. And that being the reality I'm sure Florida is hoping long term that Dan can leave them in "good shape" until they can try to hire their next splash hire to replace him in three years. I remember saying that there was no way that they would run off McElwain without having someone in place first or it would be incredibly botched. Well, they botched it.
He can sell getting three star talent at MSU because most of realize that we live in a small state population wise and we also realize that many of the recruiting services underrate Mississippi talent. That's not the case in Florida. A three star in Mississippi may be a Johntan Banks type of talent. A three star in Florida is more often than not a Brandon Holloway type of talent.
They fired him because of his lies. You're still talking about recruiting rankings. Florida will be a top #10 recruiting class there. He will not have to sign Holloway type of players. A 3* player in Mississippi will be a 4* in Florida. You should also know by now Mullen doesn't care about recruiting rankings he trusts his style of recruiting playersQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
And that's very petty for a school like Florida to do to a coach who was winning. Of course like I said the whole plan all along was to hire Chip Kelly and they just used McElwain's lies as a convenient excuse to try to justify it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
The whole problem is while Dan doesn't care about recruiting rankings- the fans at Florida most certainly do. And they most certainly will care if Florida State, Miami, and Georgia are beating them on and off of the field- which is what I think will happen. I'm sure the Florida money people will demand that Hevesy and Gonzalez are replaced at a minimum in a couple of years. I don't expect Dan to react very well when that happens.
You're acting like Hev and Gonzo weren't at Florida before recruiting and coaching the same positions. They did well then, they'll do well now. Let's be honest. If Mullen won at State he's damn sure gonna win at Florida. That's just the reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Of course he will win at Florida. Even winning 10 games is not good enough there though. Their fans ran urban freaking Meyer off bc he got beat by saban, and had a down year bc cam newton transferred. To win at the level Florida will want, it will require recruiting at Georgia, bama, and Ohio state level.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
You are right hev and gonzo could recruit at Florida, but how much was urban? Urban is one of the top 3 recruiters in the country. You put me on his staff and I can pull 4* all day with urban closing.
I think Mullen will win be a 10-win coach at Florida, but I think those 2 losses will be to FSU and Georgia. He cannot lose those 2 games
This is the correct view. danny boy will win 8-10 a year. He won?t beat Kirby or fsu and will struggle against Pruitt and maybe even muschamp. And we know his track record in big games. If he?s not in Atlanta in 3 years he?s unemployed.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I didn?t take it that way. His point is that if Mullen is focusing on that type of tactic rather than the all of the advantages UF has and the more immediate threats to to them within the East and the state of Florida. If his priority is to run us down rather than those threats, he will fail quickly. And thus not need to unpack.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Go back up, he explained and we agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by gravedigger
Hevesy was demoted from OL coach to TE coach while he was at Florida under Urban Meyer. And Meyer didn't take Billy with him to Ohio State. That may have been in part because Byrne had hired Hud to be our WR coach before he hired Dan. Which may be one reason why Dan resents Hud.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Yep. And when Florida can't win those two games they're going to come down on Dan hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I don't understand that move of hiring someone's else staff. That would make most uncomfortable. I hear and see both sides of the argument. The dude seems rejuvenated and ready to coach again. He didn't win the championship he said he would here but he established us. He'll have a easier schedule than before and the talent to get it done. I expect him to succeed and beat upper echelon teams. Mullen had no problem believing he could beat Bama our players didn't until this year. When i played and we beat Bama, Auburn, Florida etc it was because the players believed. Jackie Wayne was the same the good years and bad. I hate things happened the way they did but the guy can coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I don't understand or know why Byrne hired Hud and Les Koenning before hiring a staff either. I'm not sure if alumni pressure caused it to happen or if Byrne thought Hud would be really good one day and just wasn't quite ready yet and wanted to keep him around in case our then new coach left. Les was on Felker's staff and of course Rockey was still around at that time. And of course Hud has always had a lot of MSU allies.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
I'm not sure that I would say that Dan established us or not. I think Jackie established us at least as much as Dan did. Literally the only thing people wanted to do when Jackie took over was beat Ole Miss and maybe go to a Liberty Bowl every once few years. As you very well know Jackie came in and started beating people and taking us to bowls every other year his first ten in an era when it was more difficult to go to bowls. I think Jackie believed in our players and he actually even won the SEC West plus 1999 was by my measure the best season we have had the past 25 years. That's why I think Jackie was better than Dan despite how it ended.
The thing about Dan is I think when he first came here with Byrne it was kind of using us as a stepping stone and I think everyone was OK with that. Then Stricklin took over and then all of a sudden it was "we need continuity!" and we ended up overpaying for a coach that only intended to use us as a stepping stone. Doing that made it really hard for him to move on. Dan got caught up in his long range career goals- and it's fine to have those and everyone probably should have those- but the problem is Dan let it interfere with his job performance at Mississippi State. And while it's OK to have long range goals you shouldn't let them interfere with your current job.
While Dan may have believed that HE could beat Alabama I'm not sure that he believed in our players being able to beat them based on how he called those games. That and he puts his own personal football ideology ahead of everything else- like running Holloway up the middle. I think that's why he called so many QB runs- because he trusted Dak and Fitz more than any of the other players on the team even if it was 4th and 14.
It was starting to get to the point where Dan was holding us back more than he was moving us forward.
Jackie will always be the "Kang". I'll never forget being in Atlanta when Kevin Prentiss took the punt all the way back and we were ahead of Tennessee in the 4th for a SEC championship. I hate how his last few years ended but UNM and the NCAA made it hard for us to continue to recruit. He was and forever will be "True Maroon". Dan too selfish to be thought of in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Great post! Dead on accurate!Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldendawg
Jackie is one of us!
There's no doubt Jackie Wayne is the man. I agree with 99% of this post. My one disagreement is that Jackie did more. Jackie won one more important game than Dan (West Championship) but every record Jackie did Mullen broke. I love Jackie he coached me, but Dan did more. The winning record, team records, and bowl records, don't lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
You are not very smart, are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Tennessee is VERY lucky that we didn't have a healthy JJ Johnson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldendawg
Too lazy to look it up, but Dan didn't break Jackie's record for # of victories I don't think. If he had stayed one more year, I am sure he would have. I just found Jackie to be more down to earth and genuine. Have a picture of him holding my 3 month old son at a summer get together, ( he turned 17 this past week). It was a lot harder to make it to a bowl game while Jackie was our coach, wasn't "500 bowl games" back then and fewer regular season games. I appreciated the good things and places Dan took us, but it always seemed to be about him at the end of the past 6 seasons ( 4 losses to UNM), when the annual job search started. I'm sure his ex-players think of him as you do Jackie, but I think it became too much about him instead of State.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Dan had a higher winning percentage but Jackie has more wins overall. The biggest thing is Jackie had twice as many top 25 wins as Dan had. Also had the SEC West Championship. Dan didn't have as many "bad" losses as Jackie and a better bowl record but in general his big wins don't have as much bang as Jackie's did.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
You also have to take into account that Jackie's last three years really drag him down a lot and the fact that Jackie had to coach one less game a year than Dan for most of his career- and the 12th game would have been against a I-AA team because the rules about playing I-AA teams was different in the 1990's. That in and of itself gives Dan 9 "free" wins almost that Jackie would have won well over 90% of the time if not 100%. I imagine that with the current rules in place we would have certainly gone bowling in 1996 and 1997 (5-6 and 7-4) with today's scheduling and bowl rules and no doubt Dan would not have gone bowling in 2016 with the 1990's bowl structure not to mention a couple of Dan's 6-6 seasons that would have had us on the bubble in the 1990's. We may have even gone bowling in 1993 under the current structure with a 12th game depending on if we could have beaten Arkansas State and Arkansas in OT which wasn't in place in 1993.
I think if Dan had won at least two out of three Egg Bowls from either 2014, 2015, or this year he would be looked at MUCH differently. Each of those three losses ended the season on a sour note and cost us bowl spots that would have greatly enhanced his image.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldendawg
I've still got the program (in very good shape) of Jackie's 1st game he coached at State. I've thought about getting his address and sending it to him in case he doesn't have it. I sent him a wood and cloth clown puppet I bought at an arts and crafts fair back when he was Coach and he sent a great thank you note. He did a lot of things for kids behind the scenes and never blew his own horn. Hail Kang Jackie and Hail State!
Agree 100%. Still a bad taste for me. He was too busy with other things at the end of too many seasons his last few years with us. Some of the bowls were very anti-climatic after losses to UNM, some of which we had a better team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Your dad should have pulled out. So is your mother the dumb one or him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkman Turner Overdrive
Dan Mullen's record 69-46 Bowl record 5-2 Highest ranking #1Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldendawg
Jackie Wayne record 74-76 bowl record 2-4 Highest ranking #8
I respect your opinion but that screams Mullen is better to me. People also forget Mullen had two players die during his tenure just like Jackie. He was also down to earth. He's great to former players encouraging them to come back. After Sherill there was no connection.
I've said it several times and I'll keep saying it. Mullen reminded me alot of Jackie. They are similar. This thread started on the premise of negative recruiting. Jackie' s tactics were a whole lot worse. I remember him saying there has never been a kid of he wanted him to commit he could. He wasn't the clown master for nothing..lol.
Yeah, Mullen was clearly better hereQuote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Forget Dan, he's just an arrogant coach who runs his mouth, the AD is who I have a problem with....
Yes, Dan put a more consistent winner on the field and never had the 'awful' season where we dropped to the 3 to 4 win level like Jackie BUT its really not a fair comparison. For those of us who went through MSU football in the 80s and when Jackie took over in 1991 we had a podunk stadium with the single deck East side with a VERY small fanbase and a VERY small overall athletic budget. To compare that to what Mullen took over is really apples and oranges given how everything has exploded being part of the SEC. The biggest thing is when Dan took over the SEC had already separated itself from the smaller non-SEC conferences around us. That was not the case under JWS. I can remember when we were very worried playing the Memphis, Tulane and USMs of the world. Losing to them would be considered a major upset today (essentially like us blowing the USA game). Dan even got the benefit of an extra non-conference game and WAY more available bowls. At least 3 of Dan's bowl trips would not have occurred during Jackie's tenure with the same record. Also, back in Jackie's day we couldn't even fill up a 41,000 seat stadium in 1998 with the SEC West on the line. Could you even imagine such a thing today? Jackie really started from square one building the program when no MSU fan really thought we could compete. Yes, Dan had to deal with Saban but he just had so much more to work with than Jackie that I don't feel you can directly compare. I actually think JWS accomplished more given what he started with than what Dan did.
Last line 'rings true'!Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I agree that Jackie took lemons and made lemonade. Dan is responsible for a larger stadium, new football facility and renewed sense and belief in the football program.Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania