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No. It is 15 level 1's and then 6 lower level violations. Each violation may have a bunch of individual violations listed under it, but those just add up to a single level one.Quote:
Originally Posted by spbdawg
A standard Level I violation penalty:Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwolf
1 year postseason ban
Fine of $5000 + 3% of total budget
12.5% scholarship reduction
2 year show cause for any coach named (per violation they are named)
2 year probation
So the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM ON JUST THE 15 LEVEL ONE VIOLATIONS:
15 year postseason ban
$40,575,000 in fines
187.5% scholarship reduction
4 year show cause for Freeze
30 years of probation
Source: https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/f...B6)_101212.pdf
That would be the biggest win in the history of that athletic department, past or future.Quote:
Originally Posted by preachermatt83
This. The NCAA has a real pickle here.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption
It's like they didn't think through their matrix or didn't believe someone would actually cheat at this level.
Eitherway, this is a landmark Carr that could set NCAA precedent for 20 years.
It will be picked a part.
But that is for aggravated, right? Seemed like mitigated was much milder.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption
And that link is dead.
Yea, I know what the penalty matrix shows, but there's just no way the NCAA actually imposes those type of sanctions...it will definitely be interesting to see how they handle it.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption
Then why have the matrix. Again, they are setting precedentQuote:
Originally Posted by sandwolf
There is no way the NCAA doesn't end up looking foolish. They cannot use their own matrix, because that would literally shut down OM's football program. So no matter the verdict, they will be hypocrites for not imposing their own specific matrix for punishments.
Matrix Link:
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/matrix.pdf
https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/f...%29_101212.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption
Correct. And both volume of infractions, level of in fractions, and involvement of staff in infractions are overwhelming. If the matrix is not applied properly then the NCAA will continue it's death march to irrelevancy. They can't let that happen after the Miami case destroyed their credibility. If they blow this and UNC - forget anyone even attempting to play by the rules EVER.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
This is why I agree with Spider = the save Freeze at all cost approach is their only option (as a tactic, not a prediction for all the skim readers). They can't argue the infractions. The shit happened. They can try to lessen the blow by tossing others under the bus. If this had stopped at 10 allegations that night have worked. Under those conditions maybe Freeze just gets suspended. That they are still spinning it as a possibility tells me they have nothing else to fall back on. Their base is starting to wake up to the severity of what's coming. Not going to be fun for those who put them in this position.
I'll play the O/U:
Years 3.5
Skollies 31
Bowl ban 2
And Santa Clauses for erbody!
I told you -- OM should just take the death penalty.... and close the football team down... :confused:
Dawgowar _ IF Om had stopped the recruiting violations with the signing class of 2016.... The penalties would have been much less.. Instead that bunch continues to cheat.
No. That's STANDARD. With MINIMUM penalties per violation. You don't even wanna see what 15 Aggravated Level 1's will get you.Quote:
Originally Posted by turkish
Found a new link: https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/f...%29_101212.pdf
Edit: Which is the same as the old link but I copied the previous post from another one and it didn't translate properly.
The only way that the NCAA doesn't look foolish is by "allowing" OM to "self impose" a one or two year death penalty. While everyone thinks this is so nuclear UAB is restarting their program this year after about two years off. Hell, OM will do a PR stunt, throw a party, and get an ESPN special on "the return of OM Football" like they are coming back from doing something valiant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpetual Underachiever
People forget that there were other circumstances that caused the major damage to SMU. Their entire conference collapsed (which will not happen with the SEC) and they got dropped. Also, their already small inner city fanbase basically abandoned their athletic program. As much as I hate Rebels I think they have more commitment than SMU fans did.
Tusk, not saying wrong but your guess is based your opinion of what's reasonable and not on the recent penalty matrix that the NCAA designed.Quote:
Originally Posted by TUSK
Objectively, it should end up much worse than this.
Guys. Nowhere in the bylaws or matrix does it state they have to stack the penalties with each violation. In fact it does say they can choose which part of the penalties they may or may not use for punishment. And I can't think of a time they have ever just across board added penalties on top of each other when dealing with multiple infractions. Honestly, the base penalty matrix for the starting point of what they are looking at is Level 1 aggravated and the COI will add or subtract accordingly each subsection. That will probably be the minimum. But nowhere are they required to added each penalty together by the matrix standard for each and every penalty. The Fraud and LOIC (especially since that is usually an aggravated offense) will be the starting point of the penalties more than likely then adjust upward from there. The coaches penalty matrix is considered separately from the school as well.
Anything slightly equal or north of USCw and I am happy. Based on all the other decisions I have read several coaches will get an SC. If you look at the cases this past year the COI hands them out pretty regularly for far less.
Yup! Ppl just dont get this for some reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
they are going to get north of USC penalties. How far? Who knows
Save Face Option for Both
NCAA Offers:
A 3 Year DP and substantial penalties after DP is done
or
Full weight of the calculated penalties per matrix
In that case OM is validated in continuing to cheat. If there is no additional penalties then the smartest thing to do is just make sure it is worth it. Once again the NCAA comes out looking toothless and irrelevant. After all the issues at Penn State, Baylor, and Louisville the national media will slaughter the NCAA. I understand exactly what you are saying but I disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
TCUN can still field a team without scholarship players - but everybody know they won't be competitive enough to beat Alcorn St. Just remember, TCUN did this to themselves and now they have to answer to the judge, jury and executioner (the NCAA) as rules are established which all NCAA participants agree to play by on the field of play -- TCUN just chose poorly and they will pay dearly imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpetual Underachiever
32 over 4
2 year bowl ban
5 years probabtion
Bucky gets the show cause
I'm thinking (at a minimum)
north of 40 schollies over 4 years
3 year bowl ban
5 years probation
show causes MANY TCUN coaches including Freezus (and he never coaches again in Division I)
BUT NOT ANNOUNCED UNTIL LATE-NOVEMBER OR EARLY JANUARY 2018.
One Level 1 aggravated penalty is pretty bad just by itself. And I think the min of that matrix is the starting point of their penalties. Remember that is a min of 6 years probation, 25% scholarship reduction, 2 year postseason ban (which will allow transfers which adds to the total scholarship numbers lost), significant financial penalties, greatly reduces recruiting time, unofficial visits, etc. That's the starting point that I believe they are looking at. The COI will adjust from that in certain sections. But I don't see the COI going over the max for one Level 1 aggravated. That's 10 years probation, 50% scholarship reduction, 4 years postseason ban, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason2succeed
David Saunders received 8 years show cause for his roll in the 5 accounts of ACT Fraud..... Look him up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgowar
I may have over looked this but.... I will ask Really Clark? I did not see the penalties matrix of the recruits who lied or excepted the bribes of the school, boosters, hookers, and coaches. Is there a martix for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
No. That would be under student athlete eligibility and that is handled outside of the COI penalty phase. Tunsil and Hampton sitting out a few years ago because of those violations were taken care of before the investigation was completed. As soon as they discover a violation that jeopardizes a student athletes eligibility, it has to be handled immediately. It doesn't wait for the COI penalty meeting. Normally this is in the form of suspensions, community service, repayment structure of impermissible benefits, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies
So I know for a fact of at least one student who excepted benefits from OM and signed with OM.... Will the father that sold this child be expected to pay back this money?Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
I cannot even imagine.....
Yeah, but Saunders lied to the NCAA, Freeze just quoted some Bible verses**Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
But Freeze, as the HC, is responsible for any violations that have occurred during his tenure as HC, even though he may not.....hmmmm have been privy too, or orchestrated the whole thing.
Pain.
Did they get caught? Was the player suspended? If no, then there was no violation discovered and nothing will happen. Think about Scarbourgh, he had a 4 game suspension and paid back monies. If you don't see a suspension, more than likely there is not enough evidence of a violation or the total monetary amount of the impermissible benefit was small and just paying it back was enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies
Quote:
Originally Posted by yjnkdawg
I agree with both of you..... I believe that Freezus could not tell the truth if he wanted too.... The NCAA has not caught him in the lies.... YET.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
Will he agree that He was in a home with at least one booster? On how many different occasions? Will he agree that he knew about the burner phones and who supplied the phones?
So I will quote a Bible verse.....
Exodus 20: 14-15
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
Leviticus 19:11 "'Do not steal. "'Do not lie. "'Do not deceive one another.
The HC is responsible for His entire staff.... He should have kept the staff as Very Close Friends.....
Not quite. The head coach is responsible for creating an atmosphere of compliance and monitor the activities of the staff that report directly or indirectly to him. That is not the same as responsible for any violations that his staff may have committed. What the NCAA wanted to remove was the "I didn't know what was happening" defense for all cases, although it could still be valid with a one time offense or just one rouge staffer. It won't work with multiple infractions by a staff. The presumption at that point is that the HC should have known there was a problem by monitoring or he wasn't really trying to promote an atmosphere of compliance.Quote:
Originally Posted by yjnkdawg
Y'all must have missed my use of these "**".....perhaps I should have used the appropriate amount (i.e., ************************************************** **********), then my sarcasm wouldn't have as subtle, lol.
That's correct, buddy... My O/U is my "bet", per se.... not what should happen or what current legislation calls for, etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Additionally, I think UM would recover FASTER from the DP than they would from paralytic sanctions....
The NCAA can hammer OM to the point that it isn't worth it for them or anyone else to get this far out of line without giving them the death penalty or the crazy sanctions that would result from adding up each individual violations' penalties from the matrix. If they hit them with 30+ scholarships, a 2-3 year bowl ban and 6-10 years of probation (meaning they are under a microscope for that time and are forced to recruit within the rules), they will become a doormat for every bit of a decade......anything at that level or worse will be a huge win for us and a huge loss for them. So when they don't get the death penalty (and they won't, there's just too much money involved), don't come back here starting a bunch of threads about how they got off easy, giving them some sense of victory....take the win, talk about how they are going to be a joke for the foreseeable future and talk about the opportunity we have to elevate our programQuote:
Originally Posted by Reason2succeed
I hear you. But if they get what you described what I will say is that OM was smart to continue cheating since there is obviously a max penalty that the NCAA is willing to drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwolf
I would then expect many programs to make sure that if they are cheating to make sure that they make it worth it. Why only rob one bank when you can rob ten banks and you still won't get life in prison?