and had the worst offensive coordinator in the conferenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Human Meat
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and had the worst offensive coordinator in the conferenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Human Meat
Yeah, lsu fans should be proud. If only we could hang a "we didn't he whipped badly by bama" banner like lsu. A loss is a loss to meQuote:
Originally Posted by Human Meat
Until we upgrade OL talent- it will always be a lossQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
and there is a huge difference in competing and being noncompetitive
No point in arguing any further. I simply do not understand your mindset. If things continue as they are now over time, LSU will beat Alabama a few times. We will not. That is the end of the discussion, some folks will never get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
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Come on 7 you blast Howland when he is in year 2 but are still making excuses for Hev after 8 years. Something don't smell right.
Blast em? I don't think I've blasted any coach. Now I'm critical of in-game decisions of all our coaches (Hev and Mullen included). During the offseason, I'm sunshine pumper for all our coaches hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by BayouDawg
All coaches named Hevesy.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I know we were a better team than Mid TN State. So how could they put up more points? My answer would be, not only the o-line issues but the mental aspect of playing Bama. It seems our guys don't believe they can beat 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
I do agree if we had a better o-line, we could compete. It looks as if we'll have one of, if not the best qb in the league while Mullen is here. Just need to get that o-line straightened out.
Think about this:Quote:
Originally Posted by tireddawg
We had the NFL ROY at QB (who was 1st team All-SEC) and 2 All-SEC WR's playing against Bama in 2015- and we scored 6 points. So those 2 positions obviously werent the offensive problem. What does that leave Msstate7?
I've read this thread, & maybe it's just going over my head, but what is mstate7 trying to argue?
Oline isn't the only thing holding us back from bamaQuote:
Originally Posted by tireddawg
to be fair that might have been the best defense in the history of college football... but yes our OL suck. We have had a few busts and a last minute miss with Lashley which is why we are filling the gaps with Jucos. I was also under the impression that Lashley wanted to play for money we wouldn't pay and then alabama cut a check at least those were the rumors... but that is not a path we want to go down.
Cmon mane ... you've questioned whether Howland and Cann has had what it takes, whether they'll turn it around, etc. Your expectations of 1st and 2nd year coaches not named Dan Mullen (and his offensive cronies) is mind-boggling to me. Hell you think Smart should be fired after his first year. I imagine you probably thought the same thing of Saban when he lost to us (Croom) and LMonroe his first year.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
But you good dude anyway lol. Not trying to start a war with you here.
Personally ... I'm tired of losing 4 SEC W games every year and finishing 5th or 6th in W. And no ... I don't really care how much Dan makes compared to the other coaches in the west. His job whether he make $1 or $4.5 mill is to win those games.
I'll agree with this. WRs are killing us too. And Dan's RB philosophy of playing the most senior (not the best) RBs. Hell, our whole offense is killing us against Bama lol. And Dan is supposedly an offensive genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I question all our coaches during the season. I slammed Mullen and Hev plenty during the season. I give our coaches the benefit of the doubt in offseason... if it doesn't work out, I'll be pitching a fit here hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
And don't forget McE in addiction to smart. I look at Florida and Georgia hiring McE and smart hoping to replicate Saban at bama as all the NFL teams hiring belichick assistants... one day people will learn it's Saban and belichick, not the assistants
I'll buy most of that so far on coaching trees, especially with Belichick. I believe the verdict is still out on McE & Smart tho. Not enough data yet. That's my main point.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
McE has won the East in his 1st 2 years. Not a super major accomplishment but he probably would've finished 2nd in West 1 or both of those years. We'll see what he does over the next 2. Losing Collins may hurt him a good bit too. He probably needs to step up his recruiting.
Fisher (from Saban tree) ain't too bad at FSU. We'll see if Boom learned from his mistakes at UF in next 2 or 3 years at USCe.
And in 2014 we had over 300 yards rushing with exactly 0 offensive lineman that are currently playing in the NFL. How did that happen ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
Us being terrible against LSU has a lot more with how we view that game than it does NFL caliber offensive lineman.
Good call on fisher... yikes, how'd i forget him. I just really dislike McE and smart for no good reason tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
It may not be the only thing but it is the most glaring factor. I don't see how you can watch us get pushed around by a 2nd team USA d-line and still say that O-line is not the biggest problem with our football teamQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I'm somewhat aware of this. And Dan seems to be the man to you lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I like dan. If you give dan McE's team, dan would be much more successful imoQuote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
So you think Dan would've not only won the east but beat Saban too?? I just ain't seeing it. McE's teams have been pretty decimated with injuries, especially last year's team.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Your opinion of Dan is much higher than mine. Dan has some really good qualities, but he real stubborn on correcting his flaws. I'm hoping we are starting to see some movement on those tho if he does indeed hand over D responsibilities to Grantham, and then get his O inside top 20 - 30 every year. We'll see.
Let's see how McE does this season. Boom left him the 2nd best defensive talent in the sec... maybe the country. A lot of those guys are gone now and Florida has won with that defense. Remember boom got a bcs bowl earlyQuote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
Fla returns 10 starters on offense. They will be improved there. They do have some defensive holes to fill for sure thoQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
1. Our OL recruiting has picked up some (it had a long ass way to go), but is still obviously lacking. I like the potential of this line, but it's all wait and see. I'm in total agreement that Hev needs to recruit better at his position. I think Mullen has made strides to do that.
2. If we're talking OFFENSIVE production over this timespan 12-16 (RP mentioned a lot of those TEAM achievements, but the OL is only able to correlate to Offensive play), State has been dead in the middle of the pack in that timeframe-ahead of every team in the East. Bama is clearly the class averaging an Offensive S&P+ of 10.8, A&M second at 20.8, and everyone else is bunched in the West from 26th (OM) to 32nd (State). Then there is a huge gap to the East teams-UGA/USCe/UTk-that average finished in the mid 40's.
3. In showing that, there's not a linear correlation between offensive line draft picks and OFFENSIVE success (although it's a small sample size of 14 teams). Now, we are last in our own division over that time span, but the difference between 3rd in the division and last is only ~2 points/game.
4. UGA and UF have a load of OL talent and picks in that time frame, but State has had (on average) far superior offenses to both of them, using the S&P+ (and probably most other) advanced metrics.
How dare you bring logical data to this pitchfork party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
Thats actually not that logicalQuote:
Originally Posted by HSVDawg
Doesnt take into account the different schedules and what not. We are the only one of the group that doesnt play a P5 team OOC each year- plus we usually play the weakest East teams most years. We have been very fortunate with our schedules
Tenn in 2012 when they went 5-7
Vandy in 2014 when they were awful
Missouri in 2015 when they were awful
SC in 2016 in Boom's 1st year and early in the season before they vastly improved with a new QB
Kentucky has been a turd until 2016 and when they finally improved- they beat us
Jenkins, Calhoun, Rankin, are legit SEC OL. Everywhere else I am concerned. We will be good enough to win 8, 10 or more every now and then with senior laden OLs but till we get better on the OL thats where we will be
Haha....what? Our schedule was still way stronger than every East team, including UF and UGA who as the OP mentioned have brought in way more OL talent. 6 SEC West Teams >>>> 6 East teams plus a P5 OOC every day of the damn week, especially the last 5 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
I don't disagree at all those teams have had better OL and have done more than us. We have to get more from OL, more than any other position (traditionally). However, I would venture that AL, AU, GA, FL, LSU have had more of every position put in the NFL. If we had an NFL draftable kicker last year, we would have had a hell of a season too, considering the D was so bad. To be great, it takes a well rounded team.
Stopped reading at "in spite of Miles", Knowing this thread is a big, fat troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
S&P+ is opponent adjusted FYI.
Another thing I'd like to mention is that I don't think our offense (nor offensive line) has been our inhibiting factor the last 2 years. It's been our defense. I think it was a combo of OL not being able to move the elite DL's + our D at the end of 14 that did us in. But since then our defense has killed us. From 14-16 in SEC games only, we are scoring on average ~5 points more than the league average (pretty good). Conversely, our D has given up ~3 points more per game than the league average. So, if we had league average defenses in 15 & 16 you're looking at wins vs LSU at home in 15 (lost by 2) to go 9-3, maybe LSU on the road in 16, Kentucky on the road, (and OOC-S. AL & BYU) to go either 8-4 or 9-3 in 16. We score plenty and produce plenty enough to win 4 or more SEC games in that timespan. Our D has killed us.
In 6 SEC games vs the top 3 in the SEC West in 2015 and 2016 we have scored 12 points TOTAL in the first half of those games. TOTAL. Thats 12 points in 3 complete games of football- causing us to be down by double digits at halftime of all 6 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
That's an offensive problem no matter how you spin it
I'm not "spinning" anything. Just stating statistical truths. As are you. However, you're picking such a small, miniscule portion of data to skew the results. You're honing in on 19% of our SEC games in the last 2 years. I'm talking about the results in their totality. Which one do you think has more accuracy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
Mine obviouslyQuote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
Our lack of OL talent does not allow us to win big SEC games. We have scored 12 total points in the 1st halves of those 6 games. Double digit deficit at halftime of all 6. You dont need stats for that- its common sense that you simply arent competing in those games offensively and they are basically over by halftime
Just because we run over shitty defenses in other games doesnt mean our offense is good.
Look the ****ing OL is shit, has been shit, and will continue to be shit as long as the paycheck robber is on staff. He sucks at recruiting and isn't that great of a coach. Easily expendable and replaceable but won't ever happen. So until then enjoy having about 3 OL every year that might all be ready by game 1. With no noticeable depth behind them.
We beat Texas A&M last season when they were #4 in the country and in the playoff. Does that not count as a big game ? What you are actually saying is that we don't beat Bama. I have news for you. hardly anyone ever does. I think this argument has a lot to do with how Ole Miss has performed against them in the last 3 years, but honestly without a fluke deflection off of a helmet for a TD, Ole Miss is likely 1-2. Take a deep breathQuote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster