We just have to accept fact in recruiting

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

And I'm saying if he "developed" them so well ... our rankings should be higher. Certainly not in the damn 80s.

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What were the individual QB rankings. And please be honest to what Relf looked before and after Mullen. If you can't admit how much he got developed by Mullen than you are just arguing from dishonesty or ignorance.

Not that I think Mullen and Co are giving an all out effort in recruiting, but I haven't seen much discussion on whether or not we think these other schools are offering a little more than a scholarship. Just makes me wonder why a lot of our kids flip so late in the process. It just may be they are getting better "offers" than we are handing out. And I wouldn't put anything past that human piece of garbage, Bobby Patrino.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

I don't have an agenda ... none except winning games we should win and beating up on the 4 teams each year in the SEC W that are vulnerable.

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Link where only regular season is counted. You want wins, the bowl games count as wins to.

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

Mullen has his issues, as all coaches do from time to time. But he is a great offensive football coach. That's not even debatable. He made us competitive with a midget for a QB, and then he won with Chris Relf.

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Yea it is ... go look at the offensive rankings for each year he's been here. I do think he's a great offensive mind tho. But maybe also that had a lot to do with some guy named Urban. He seems to develop QBs pretty good himself.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

You count every game. Period. The dang rankings don't stop with the regular season. The wins and losses count, period

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I hear ya, but the Ninja deserves his fair share of credit as well. He figured out that we needed four cupcakes every season to go with our SEC schedule.

Dan feasted on bad OOC teams, Kentucky and bad SEC teams, and he definitely deserves credit for raising the floor at MSU. No question about it, but his recruiting is keeping him from achieving his full potential as a coach.

Agenda is the new buzz word thrown out when someone doesn't like the facts they are hearing

Using his regular season record to measure our program is not an agenda- it's a very normal and often used measurement of success

Some of y'all are complaining about the groceries when all that matter is what comes OUT of the kitchen.

Here's the fact. Mullen beats teams that have more talent than us all the time. Every time he beats Auburn, aTm, OM, and when he beat LSU. Beating Bama means you are probably the NC unless you are OM and can't finish.

Could or should Mullen recruit better? Sure. Any of us could do better at our job. But I'm going to judge him strictly by his on field production and not by his recruiting rankings.

Every team is going to lose guys in recruiting and especially after coaching changes (which granted we have a bunch of).


But every year with Mullen we are raising our national profile and it will pay off if we are not impatient. He told us when he came here that it was going to be a process.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

What were the individual QB rankings. And please be honest to what Relf looked before and after Mullen. If you can't admit how much he got developed by Mullen than you are just arguing from dishonesty or ignorance.

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I will and have admitted he did a decent job with Relf. Games like 5 picks against LSU in '10 weren't good tho.

And of course there is Dak and I'm on the Fitz bandwagon. Now if our Oline and receivers could be gotten up to that caliber.

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Originally Posted by Random Poster

Agenda is the new buzz word thrown out when someone doesn't like the facts they are hearing

Using his regular season record to measure our program is not an agenda- it's a very normal and often used measurement of success

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Link one place that only counts a coaches regular season. Just one. How bout all the articles that uses bowl records against a coach when discussing postseason failures, etc. The games count both ways and if he was 0-7 in bowl games you damn sure would be counting those losses.

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Originally Posted by travis

I'd say he's the best coach State has had since McKeen.

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There is no doubt about that, and he has done it in what will eventually be known as the Golden Age of SEC football.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

I probably wouldn't argue that point. Doesn't make him a great coach tho in today's climate.

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Yes it does. The current climate in the SEC makes things harder, not easier.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Personally, I'm OK with that. Do we really want to be Ole Miss or Auburn? Cheat like mf's, have high drama surrounding our program at all times, have inconsistent seasons based on who gets jailed, quits, or gets processed? I don't. I don't have any illusions or delusions that begin able to challenge for an SEC title every year can be a reality. Go back and look at a lot of threads about our program prior to 2014 and you will see a lot of "7-8 wins on a consistent basis, 9 every few, and everything coming together for a run at 10 or more every 6-7 years and I'd be happy." Of course, that went out the window as soon as we challenged for the West in '14.

My check marks for the program are:
1) Are we a competitive team year in, year out?
2) Are we graduating our players?
3) Are we producing pros?
4) Are actions of our players/coaches/admin embarrassing us on the national stage?
5) Am I willing to put my time and money into travelling 10 hours to see the team or go to the closest away games when possible?

I could give two shits about where Mullen interviews, what our recruiting rankings are, or which prima donna HS kid turned us down as long as those things are being met. It's ****ing football, there is more to life.

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Exactly....+1

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

Some of y'all are complaining about the groceries when all that matter is what comes OUT of the kitchen.

Here's the fact. Mullen beats teams that have more talent than us all the time. Every time he beats Auburn, aTm, OM, and when he beat LSU. Beating Bama means you are probably the NC unless you are OM and can't finish.

Could or should Mullen recruit better? Sure. Any of us could do better at our job. But I'm going to judge him strictly by his on field production and not by his recruiting rankings.

Every team is going to lose guys in recruiting and especially after coaching changes (which granted we have a bunch of).


But every year with Mullen we are raising our national profile and it will pay off if we are not impatient. He told us when he came here that it was going to be a process.

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This makes to much sense**********
Excellent post!

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

Some of y'all are complaining about the groceries when all that matter is what comes OUT of the kitchen.

Here's the fact. Mullen beats teams that have more talent than us all the time. Every time he beats Auburn, aTm, OM, and when he beat LSU. Beating Bama means you are probably the NC unless you are OM and can't finish.

Could or should Mullen recruit better? Sure. Any of us could do better at our job. But I'm going to judge him strictly by his on field production and not by his recruiting rankings.

Every team is going to lose guys in recruiting and especially after coaching changes (which granted we have a bunch of).


But every year with Mullen we are raising our national profile and it will pay off if we are not impatient. He told us when he came here that it was going to be a process.

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When he came here, South Alabama did not have a football program. I don't recall him telling us that we would be losing to teams that don't even exist right now as being part of the process. We did not raise our national profile this year. In fact, all we did was prove to some that as long as we beat the confederates, our fan base is happy. Crabs in a god damn bucket.

If you think we raised our national profile this year, you are nuts. The narrative about MSU right now is that Dak carried the program on his back for two years and now that he is gone, it is back to the Weed Wacker Bowl. This year did nothing to disprove that narrative.

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Originally Posted by Random Poster

Exactly- this is how you measure your program. Going 6-6 and getting to play Rice in a bowl game or 5-7 to play a team half our fanbase didn't know was D-1 for easy wins doesn't really tell the story.

We are a 6-8 win program under Mullen. And we have to accept that

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What have we been historically?

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

I do count only regular season games. That determines where we finish in the SEC W. Now if we had lost every bowl game then that would be an entirely separate reason to be pissed at him.

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You count them all.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Yes it does. The current climate in the SEC makes things harder, not easier.

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If Urban was in Starkville he'd be finishing 2nd or 3rd at the worst every year in the west. That's a great coach. Finishing 4 - 6 against the mediocre coaching in the west ain't a great coach. He has done nothing as a head coach to be considered great. Urban, Saban, Harbaugh ... they've gone to schools that historically don't win a lot and turned them into winners and conference champs. That's great.

We have finished tied for 5th/6th in the SEC West 3 of the last four years. That is only one step from last place, one step up from any coach we have ever had.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

When he came here, South Alabama did not have a football program. I don't recall him telling us that we would be losing to teams that don't even exist right now as being part of the process. We did not raise our national profile this year. In fact, all we did was prove to some that as long as we beat the confederates, our fan base is happy. Crabs in a god damn bucket.

If you think we raised our national profile this year, you are nuts. The narrative about MSU right now is that Dak carried the program on his back for two years and now that he is gone, it is back to the Weed Wacker Bowl. This year did nothing to disprove that narrative.

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So, in your opinion should we fire Mullen? What are your realistic expectations of our football program? Throw out some numbers and records that you would be satisfied with. We are not nor will we probably ever be a consistent contender, at least not in the near future. If you weren't a born and raised state fan and you had offers from Alabama, LSU, Louisville, State, and Texas A&M where would you go?

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Originally Posted by Random Poster

Absolutely. And he has more resources than any State coach has ever had.

Unfortunately- we can't compare Mullen to Charlie Shira- we have to compare him to Saban, Yaw Yaw, Gus Bus, Sumlin, Bert, and Freezus.

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Relatively speaking we are no better off in the SEC facility and money wise than we ever were. The SEC has been the strongest that any conference has ever been for the last 15 years and we are doing better than what we do historically despite that. Great argument for Mullen Random, thanks!

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

Some of y'all are complaining about the groceries when all that matter is what comes OUT of the kitchen.

Here's the fact. Mullen beats teams that have more talent than us all the time. Every time he beats Auburn, aTm, OM, and when he beat LSU. Beating Bama means you are probably the NC unless you are OM and can't finish.

Could or should Mullen recruit better? Sure. Any of us could do better at our job. But I'm going to judge him strictly by his on field production and not by his recruiting rankings.

Every team is going to lose guys in recruiting and especially after coaching changes (which granted we have a bunch of).


But every year with Mullen we are raising our national profile and it will pay off if we are not impatient. He told us when he came here that it was going to be a process.

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What came out of the kitchen was 5-7 and losses to South Alabama, BYU, Kentucky, and the like.

And next season doesn't look overly promising with an OL to fix, a bottom half SEC group of WR's, and the hope that a bunch of jucos pan out by games 3, 4, and 5 this Fall

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

What have we been historically?

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I don't get this mindset. Clemson hadn't won the ACC in 20 years before Dabo did it in 2011. I've been to Clemson, I can promise you there is nothing in Clemson that should make Starkville ashamed of anything.

If you have a coach who is happy winning 6-9 games and a fan base that will accept it, and you are willing to pay him 4.5 million dollars to achieve those goals, then no one should be surprised when we lose recruiting battles to programs like Louisville who think that their program should be in the playoff. Right or Wrong, that is what they think.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

If Urban was in Starkville he'd be finishing 2nd or 3rd at the worst every year in the west. That's a great coach. Finishing 4 - 6 against the mediocre coaching in the west ain't a great coach. He has done nothing as a head coach to be considered great. Urban, Saban, Harbaugh ... they've gone to schools that historically don't win a lot and turned them into winners and conference champs. That's great.

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You're actually gonna compare Mullen to one of the 1-2 best coaches in the country? Who the hell said Mullen was as good as urban? Smh

Who is the stone cold lock coach we go get that whips the sec west on the recruiting trail and pushes bama for the west?

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Neither of you are correct. No stat or ranking does that. Every single place you look for a coaches record doesn't stop with regular season. They count every game no matter how you want state your case it is not correct and you can't link any stat or historian who does that. You both are dead wrong

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They are only doing it to make Mullen look as bad as possible during recruiting season. I can't believe y'all haven't figured that out by now. It's no coincidence they drag this stuff up now.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

I will and have admitted he did a decent job with Relf. Games like 5 picks against LSU in '10 weren't good tho.

And of course there is Dak and I'm on the Fitz bandwagon. Now if our Oline and receivers could be gotten up to that caliber.

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Relf only had 6 picks a year in 2010. He did have 2 against LSU

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Originally Posted by msstate7

You're actually gonna compare Mullen to one of the 1-2 best coaches in the country? Who the hell said Mullen was as good as urban? Smh

Who is the stone cold lock coach we go get that whips the sec west on the recruiting trail and pushes bama for the west?

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I'm 'splaining what great is. Mullen is a good coach. He's done nuthin to be considered "great" yet.

ETA: Meyer believes in recruiting. He'd recruit much closer to equal to everyone not named Saban at Bama. We'd also probably have some Oline recruits that were further than 2 hours drive from Starkville. And then he'd coach circles around the other SEC W coaches during games.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

They are only doing it to make Mullen look as bad as possible during recruiting season. I can't believe y'all haven't figured that out by now. It's no coincidence they drag this stuff up now.

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Come on, people are bitching after a recruit drops us for a different school. Should we be happy? Are we allowed to be upset that our best HS DL commit, (since April) from a school coached by a bulldog, and whom we hired their former coach, has now two weeks before signing day left our recruiting class.

The reason people are brining up the results, is because the inability to recruit high caliber athletes directly impacts the product on the field and is how we end up losing to South Alabama at freaking home.

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

Some of y'all are complaining about the groceries when all that matter is what comes OUT of the kitchen.

Here's the fact. Mullen beats teams that have more talent than us all the time. Every time he beats Auburn, aTm, OM, and when he beat LSU. Beating Bama means you are probably the NC unless you are OM and can't finish.

Could or should Mullen recruit better? Sure. Any of us could do better at our job. But I'm going to judge him strictly by his on field production and not by his recruiting rankings.

Every team is going to lose guys in recruiting and especially after coaching changes (which granted we have a bunch of).


But every year with Mullen we are raising our national profile and it will pay off if we are not impatient. He told us when he came here that it was going to be a process.

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What came out of the kitchen last year was a s***burger in my opinion(save the egg bowl). And to me, if you don't want s***burgers, you better start with good quality groceries! All in all though, I think Mullen is a good coach and has taken us to higher level. But I think what most people are saying(including me) is if Mullen doesn't recruit better or at least quit losing players that we want, than we have reached our ceiling.

The Bear "It's amazing how many times the team with the best players win"

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

I don't get this mindset. Clemson hadn't won the ACC in 20 years before Dabo did it in 2011. I've been to Clemson, I can promise you there is nothing in Clemson that should make Starkville ashamed of anything.

If you have a coach who is happy winning 6-9 games and a fan base that will accept it, and you are willing to pay him 4.5 million dollars to achieve those goals, then no one should be surprised when we lose recruiting battles to programs like Louisville who think that their program should be in the playoff. Right or Wrong, that is what they think.

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Clemson had been a solid program for 40 years for the most part. You have to do what we are doing over the long haul to build a base. My mindset is I don't want to do what we have always done, and that is what y'all are advocating. It's the same old stuff that has always killed us whenever we get close. Patience grasshopper.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

I'm 'splaining what great is. Mullen is a good coach. He's done nuthin to be considered "great" yet.

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Well if great coach like urban is the goal, good luck... everyone besides Ohio state, bama, and Michigan are looking

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Come on, people are bitching after a recruit drops us for a different school. Should we be happy? Are we allowed to be upset that our best HS DL commit, (since April) from a school coached by a bulldog, and whom we hired their former coach, has now two weeks before signing day left our recruiting class.

The reason people are brining up the results, is because the inability to recruit high caliber athletes directly impacts the product on the field and is how we end up losing to South Alabama at freaking home.

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Actually during recruiting season the absolute worst thing you can do is bitch. Y'all are playing somebody else's game, not ours. I HOPE it isn't intentional.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

If Urban was in Starkville he'd be finishing 2nd or 3rd at the worst every year in the west. That's a great coach. Finishing 4 - 6 against the mediocre coaching in the west ain't a great coach. He has done nothing as a head coach to be considered great. Urban, Saban, Harbaugh ... they've gone to schools that historically don't win a lot and turned them into winners and conference champs. That's great.

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Saban did no such thing. He was about to get run off at MI St until he FINALLY had a 9 win season after years of .500. And Urban won a lot at Utah but did not take a bad Power 5 school and turn it around in a difficult conference. He never did that.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Yea it is ... go look at the offensive rankings for each year he's been here. I do think he's a great offensive mind tho. But maybe also that had a lot to do with some guy named Urban. He seems to develop QBs pretty good himself.

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No it's not. You're embarrassing yourself.

The QB's that Urban developed...Mullen was his QB coach/offensive coordinator. I'll hang up and listen as you tell me the list of QBs Urban has put in the league since Mullen left him.

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Originally Posted by Random Poster

What came out of the kitchen was 5-7 and losses to South Alabama, BYU, Kentucky, and the like.

And next season doesn't look overly promising with an OL to fix, a bottom half SEC group of WR's, and the hope that a bunch of jucos pan out by games 3, 4, and 5 this Fall

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Bitching about recruiting and then making a negative recruiting pitch that Freeze would be proud of, ok.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Saban did no such thing. He was about to get run off at MI St until he FINALLY had a 9 win season after years of .500. And Urban won a lot at Utah but did not take a bad Power 5 school and turn it around in a difficult conference. He never did that.

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Don't confuse them with reality.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Well if great coach like urban is the goal, good luck... everyone besides Ohio state, bama, and Michigan are looking

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There are some others I might consider great that aren't quite in those 3 coaches' tier. Only thing I'm saying is Mullen hasn't proven to me just yet that he is a "great" coach.

Or ... maybe he's a great defensive coach since, with the exception of Dak and a couple of others, all our NFL guys a big time defense guys.

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Originally Posted by 1bigdawg

We have finished tied for 5th/6th in the SEC West 3 of the last four years. That is only one step from last place, one step up from any coach we have ever had.

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Three teams in our division have recently won national championships. Another has been cheating their asses off. Yet another is in the top 15 every year. That leaves us and Arkansas - and we hold our own.

90% of all programs in America would have similar results, regardless of who was coaching them.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Actually during recruiting season the absolute worst thing you can do is bitch. Y'all are playing somebody else's game, not ours. I HOPE it isn't intentional.

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I haven't posted in months - so I'm not sure how I have contributed to Odom flipping to Lville. Just let me know when it is ok to comment on a recruit already flipping from MSU?

Me not posting hasn't helped.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Yea it is ... go look at the offensive rankings for each year he's been here. I do think he's a great offensive mind tho. But maybe also that had a lot to do with some guy named Urban. He seems to develop QBs pretty good himself.

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Yes, Cardale Jones and JT Barrett just skyrocketed under his tutelage.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Link one place that only counts a coaches regular season. Just one. How bout all the articles that uses bowl records against a coach when discussing postseason failures, etc. The games count both ways and if he was 0-7 in bowl games you damn sure would be counting those losses.

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The AD's office. Coaches get hired and fired for their regular season record- not their bowl record