This. The hard truth we actually got our butts kicked (fudge packed actually) in both these games. Either could have named their score if they hadn't quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
Agreed. At least insomuch as I would put more blame on D than O. There is also that kicking thing. But that may really be included with O.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lambert
Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
It's not an abnormality or a conundrum. Hev is a good "coach" meaning he can develop guys and get the most out of their natural ability. He's routinely getting 1 and 2 star players playing like 2-4 star players. And our offense, when run correctly, helps some of those numbers look better. We all saw how bad the OL was last year and early this year when we were trying to throw a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
The problem, as most of us continue to point out, is that Hev is a recruiting albatross. He's a lazy MFer who doesn't do what it takes to get quality recruits. I'm not so sure he's a shitty talent evaluator as much as he just doesn't want to do what it takes to sign legit 3-5 star OL prospects. And let's be real honest, most of the 3-star OL we're getting are actual 2-stars. Paul is getting them bumped because he's got one of the largest and most active 247 sites. If Hev got legit SEC OL talent to work with, I can't fathom how good our OL would be. It's bad that I'm longing for a Croom OL. Still no OL drafted recruited solely by Hev is a damning stat.
The problem with this is obvious and simple: Players and parents want to meet their position coach and get to know him. It just can't be avoided. If it could be done, I'd be all for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Summarizing, we have a poor OL coach and recruiter, and a first year DC who doesn't seem to be all that capable. Urban Meyer realized that Hevesy wasn't the OL coach that he wanted so he transferred him to TE coach. Mullen brought Hevesy here from Florida and gave him the OL coach and "Running Coordinator" co-oc job. He is his friend and apparently Mullen will not do anything to hurt his feelings. We will therefore never be a top contender for the SECW if Mullen doesn't do what is necessary to remedy the situation.
Hevesy CatfishQuote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
http://themajors.net/wp-content/uplo...otheshorse.jpg
Thought Hev was moved to tackles and TEs by MeyerQuote:
Originally Posted by NCDawg
I'm going to disagree with Random Poster's earlier comment. THIS is your best post ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
He was in 2008- and had Mullen not hired him- he was going to be firedQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
RP, you're correct on the AU game, but not on LSU. We got the ball back, down just 3 points, with 2:15 seconds left. Plenty of time to get in FG range to tie or even score a game-winning TD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
Also consider just prior to that last drive, LSU's punter boomed a 61-yard punt that backed us up to our 23. Had he hit a normal punt, we almost assuredly get that ball back near mid-field with over 2 minutes left, and a lot less desperate.
LSU game was not "garbage time". LSU failed to even score in the 2nd half.
Wow... didn't realize you were so connected with urban MeyerQuote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
LSU was up 23-6 with 5 mins left in the game. They relaxed a little and Williams surprised them with 2 passes. When we got the ball back that last time- we got 2 yards in 4 downs. LSU got serious again and stuffed our ass- just like they had the first 55 mins of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklistedbully
"If you dont know, now ya know"- BiggieQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
HahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
Wow! I just need a minute to change my draws! ........ DAMNIT! It happened again. Be right back.
Exactly. It's not unreasonable at all for a recruit to want to know their position coach. We need to either move him to the office or fire him. I don't care which we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
Agreed. Now if someone could convince the Head Coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
In the same thread guys are saying Hev needs to just not talk to recruits bc he rubs them wrong and then others are pissed for doing what the others want.
I definitely think Hev needs to step up the oline recruiting, but Hev's oline outperformed a bunch of sec teams that have more stars on the oline. Hev performed solid this year and I expect another solid year next season
Down 3 with 2:15 left in a game is not a game that was made close due to "garbage time". You're being misleading when you reference them being up 23-6 with 5 minutes left, because you are leaving out the fact that at that point we were 1st & 10 on the LSU 25, about to get a TD to make it 23-13. A minute and 1/2 later it was 23-20.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
I'm not being misleading at all. We werent doing shit on offense for 55 minutes and LSU was in complete control of the game. Damien came in and provided a spark somehow that they werent expecting. We got 2 quick scores because their guys relaxed and thought the game was over. When we got the ball back with 2 mins left- their D got motivated again and completely stuffed our ass like they had the 1st 55 mins.Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklistedbully
Is that LSU's fault for relaxing? Absolutely. But to act like we were doing anything offensively against them is ridiculous. We had 270 total yards of offense that night- and got 100 of those in the last 5 mins. For the first 54 mins of the game- we had 170 yards of offense. We were being dominated.
The final overall stats do indeed not look that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
However, upon taking a deeper look into the stats, I wouldn't say Hev performed solid the whole year. More like half a year.
We had less than 400 yds total offense against USA, LSU (less than 300 at 270), AU (less than 300 at 289), BYU, and KY. Less than 100 yds rushing against USA and LSU (only 56), and only 103 against AU.
We had 3 seniors, including our center, who had all started for multiple years. Calhoun and Jenkins are RS Sophs who had started before, and Rankin was a Juco 4* who had redshirted a year. Took half a year to get going which shouldn't happen at all, much less when your first 6 games have USA, a very bad USCe team, Umass & KY. Came out of that stretch 2-4.
It shouldn't have taken so long to get that group playing pretty decent, especially against 4 of the 1st 6 teams IMO. And my perception has always been it takes a while for him to get a group to gell and play together cohesively.
I'm not saying fire Hev just yet, but taking into account this and what seems to be fairly solid evidence of his recruiting deficiencies, I'd say the leash needs to be somewhat shortened up here.
I'm personally giving the whole staff some rope and waiting to see what happens with the rest of recruiting and then next season too.
I'm sure some of the early season troubles can be blamed on the oline. I also think some can be blamed on Mullen for pulling fitz vs USA, wr drops, rb personnel decisions, and fitz getting comfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
I'll agree on those points. Early season with exception of AU & KY the D actually played good enough for us to win. It's a combination of many things this past year, thus my giving the whole staff rope to see what happens next year. With the flipped schedule I'll probably give them some rope next year too on the overall record (as long as we don't play 2 hand touch football for about 6 of the 12 games).Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
2018 is a different story tho.
How many points did LSU score in the 2nd half? Were they playing their backups? Were they playing prevent? If not, it wasn't "garbage time". If they were, then it was just another example of Les Miles having yet another brain-fart and doing something really stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
sighhhhhh...ok...we had 170 yards of offense thru 54 minutes of the game and we just decided to be awesome the last 5 minutes. You winQuote:
Originally Posted by blacklistedbully
RP, I know we sucked ass most of the game...but LSU also sucked a large part of the 2nd half. In any case, I just don't think you can call it "garbage time" unless the game is truly out-of-reach, and the team ahead has shifted to prevent and/or gone to backups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
The very fact that we were able to get within 3 and force an LSU punt from deep in their territory with over 2 minutes left is evidence it wasn't garbage time. That doesn't mean we weren't out-played overall....just that I don't think it qualifies as "garbage time". Had we managed to pull that one out, we would have "stolen" one.
I think that was Hevesy being a blind squirrel finding a nut after Calhoun got hurt because that caused us to play Jenkins more at LG and move Desper to RG and then everything suddenly clicked. Why was he not able to figure that out before midseason? So, I think it goes deeper than just recruiting with him. He misevaluates our guys and where they fit in sometimes as well. And that hurts us a lot too. Had those injuries not happened who knows what happens?Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
I think his strength is he knows a lot about how to play o-line which is a good thing obviously but at the end of the day there's more to it and in college you have to be able to recruit, evaluate, and figure out where all the pieces go.
And to be totally fair we have had personnel issues at other position groups as well. But you are right there are too many obvious issues with him that it's hard to look past the recruiting issues alone. It's just shocking that he has been allowed to go on for so long as is. Even Croom was going to demote McCorvey before he got fired and Byrne never gave him a chance to do it- not that I'm complaining but just saying it's bad when Croom has more insight into what's holding the team back than Dan. It's going to take Cohen and/or the boosters stepping up to fix it. And going back to the title of the thread, I would definitely tell Dan no extension if Hevesy is still on the field coaching with the option to demote vs. firing him.
Why not. He had had years of the same problem repeating itself. If he was going to get better, it would have happened by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
I am not sure I understand you 7. Are you saying we should keep Hev, but fire Mullen.**Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Seriously, something needs to change if we want to improve to have a consistently solid offense.
Hev for HC. I could deal with it just to see the melt here******Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bigdawg
Hev's history:
He was OL coach at Florida, then Mullen brought in Addazio as Centers/Guards coach and "moved" Hev to OT/TE coach. That was not necessarily a demotion, just a change. Then the next year, he made Addazio OL coach and moved Hev to TE coach. The no way to put lipstick on that pig. I have no idea if Meyer was really going to fire Hev when Mullen hired him, but he does usually have an ace recruiter at the TE coach position. (Hev is not an ace recruiter.)
That's not exactly right. Addaizo joined in 2005 as the TE/T coach until 2007 when he and Hev flipped positions. Addaizo then went to Interior OL, AHC was also added and Hev went to T/TE. Then Hev left with Mullen after the 2008 seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by 1bigdawg
Whatever, Meyer has sense enough to know Hevesy wasn't getting the job done on the OL, therefore, he moved him. It's a shame that Mullen, due to his devoted friendship with his friend, can't see Hevesy isn't the OL coach needed to move us to a higher level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
That not correct either. They just won the national title and wanted to flip those two around. He was grooming Addaizo to take over for Dan and Hev was still an OL coach. Just work more with the tackles and TE's. They won a title both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCDawg
So much sense that Hevesy was still helping call plays at Florida when he left.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCDawg
Since many agree that Hev can coach OL but not recruit OL, does anyone have any facts as to who Hev recruited/signed on the OL at Florida? Was he signing 4 and 5 star OL recruits for them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
By the way, per the OP's subject title in this thread, is there any indication that Mullen firing Hev is anything other than wishful thinking? Just because people say it over and over on the message boards doesn't mean it is anywhere close to happening, but some talk as if Cohen will make it happen, etc. Cohen or any other AD anywhere isn't about to tell a head coach to fire an assistant position coach, especially two years from a record-setting offense.
He signed Percy Harvin, if I'm not mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by MedDawg
Here is the thing. First off I've said several times now we should replace him. He can coach OL but his recruiting is crap for the most part. Now when he actually recruits at times he can hit it out of the park. Chris Jones, Dak, etc. guys who like him (because nobody talks about this side of the equation) really really like him. But he is going to hit .150 and strikeout 225 times in a season. The reward for his coaching is not overcoming his recruiting risks. I don't care if an OL coach is a great recruiter, that irrelevant to me. But he can't be a detriment either.
ETA. My bad, Gonzo signed Harvin. Chris Jones and Rankin are his 2 highest recruits here and of course he got Dak.
Name someone on our staff besides Mullen with 3 better signees than Percy Harvin, Chris Jones and Dak Prescott. Hev might be only batting .125 but that's with 3 walkoff grand slams in the World Series. Seems the error here is on who we place Hev with to recruit. Identify the type that love him and pair him with those guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
I've decided to hang for 2 more years and see if we can have another peak as good as or better than '14 with whatever staff Mullen decides upon. Cause ultimately ... Dan will get the credit if we peak and IMO should get the blame if we don't get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bigdawg
In '18, anything less than 10 regular season wins I'd be questioning personally. Fitz will be a RS senior. Key and Kyllin Hill will be RS freshmen probably. We should be loaded at RB. The 2015 stud recruiting class will be seniors, or RS juniors. These Jucos we just signed will be seniors. There shouldn't be any excuses or moral victories that year. No excuses about RBs that can't pass block. No moral victories like "Well if Dan had just called that timeout against LSU" or "if we had just made that FG" or anything like that. I think we should expect to beat everyone in the west, but will accept a close loss to Bama.
It's up to Dan to get all this melded together and working almost as precise as "the process" just east of Starkville. If he doesn't then it's on him IMO. We'll see what happens.
Those aren't the only high profile croots Hev has gotten or helped out with. I think the real point here is that Hev doesn't have any problems recruiting players who don't have to play directly for him in the near future. I suppose it's semantics though since whatever the root problem is, there's been no signs in 8 years that's it's attempting to be solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
It's ****ing semantics!!! They didn't let us do dick until the game was almost over. It was basically a 3 yr old taking swings at a high school kid while the high school kid has his hand on the 3 yr olds face keeping him away. No damage at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklistedbully