Murphy?

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09-20-2016, 02:19 PM
Tripp McNeely

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishwater99

Nothing is wrong, Dan won't let them play because he has 2 senior RB's.

^^^It's this, and I'm not sure why people try to make it more complicated than it is.
09-20-2016, 02:20 PM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson85

We have 6 RBs who have been on campus long enough to reasonably expect them to be able to play. Holloway can do pretty much everything but be bigger than 160 lbs. Shump can do everything but run the ball. That's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. But then we have Aeris, D Lee, Murphy, and Gibson who can't get on the field. With a streak like this, it seems like a coach should be fired. Either we have been awful in recruiting at the easiest position to recruit to for MSU, or we are doing an awful job with developing players. Out of 5 players over 4 recruiting classes, you completely strike out on finding somebody that can be an everydown back (I say 5 b/c Holloway is capable of doing exactly what he was recruited to do)? That's not bad luck. That's incompetence that somebody needs to answer for (somebody besides Holloway getting killed having to do the job that one or two of the other 5 should be doing).

This seems to make pretty good sense.
09-20-2016, 02:33 PM
Johnson85

Quote:

Originally Posted by mic

Once again we don't have a feature SEC back whatwver the reasons are..
And if we do then Knox should be fired last year for not having him ready

Who should be fired if we don't have a feature SEC back between four different recruiting classes? As bad as OL recruiting has been, RB has probably been worse when considering how easy it is for us to recruit one RB versus 5 OL.
09-20-2016, 02:46 PM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson85

Who should be fired if we don't have a feature SEC back between four different recruiting classes? As bad as OL recruiting has been, RB has probably been worse when considering how easy it is for us to recruit one RB versus 5 OL.

Honestly, if you take away JRob (which is also a little lightning in a bottle) and Vic Ballard, Mullen's RB recruiting has been horrible compared to previous MSU coaches (including Croom).

If you can't get a good RB out of MS somewhere, you being lazy. Or you don't know how to coach them. One or the other.
09-20-2016, 02:53 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgday166

Honestly, if you take away JRob (which is also a little lightning in a bottle) and Vic Ballard, Mullen's RB recruiting has been horrible compared to previous MSU coaches (including Croom).

If you can't get a good RB out of MS somewhere, you being lazy. Or you don't know how to coach them. One or the other.

Perkins was hardly horrible...
3,268 career yards from scrimmage and 25 td's

Please don't stop your Mullen bash marathon though
09-20-2016, 02:55 PM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

Perkins was hardly horrible...
3,268 career yards from scrimmage and 25 td's

Please don't stop your Mullen bash marathon though

I forgot about him.
09-20-2016, 02:58 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgday166

I forgot about him.

So that pretty much covers every year of Mullen except last year and this one. I'm still hopeful aeris or shump finish strong
09-20-2016, 03:04 PM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

So that pretty much covers every year of Mullen except last year and this one. I'm still hopeful aeris or shump finish strong

You're right and I stand corrected on this one. My mistake.

ETA: I do remember being impressed with Perkins either his SO or JR years and then underwhelmed the next year. And I've seen on this board many mentions of Perkins vs. JRob and how JRob should've been starting. And if you compare Perkins to Norwood or Dixon, I don't believe he compares well. At least he doesn't to me.
09-20-2016, 03:08 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgday166

You're right and I stand corrected on this one. My mistake.

Happens to the best of us
09-20-2016, 03:14 PM
TimberBeast

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

So that pretty much covers every year of Mullen except last year and this one. I'm still hopeful aeris or shump finish strong

And if Mullen plays one or both of them the entire SA and SC games, we would have won both games instead of one, and would have a RB that was ready to start and play vs. LSU. But he didn't, and here we are.
09-20-2016, 03:17 PM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

Happens to the best of us

I don't know if you read my ETA above but, I had to go look up Perkins career stats. They were better than I expected. I jumped the gun on this one before I had my facts straight.
09-20-2016, 03:18 PM
TimberBeast

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgday166

You're right and I stand corrected on this one. My mistake.

ETA: I do remember being impressed with Perkins either his SO or JR years and then underwhelmed the next year. And I've seen on this board many mentions of Perkins vs. JRob and how JRob should've been starting. And if you compare Perkins to Norwood or Dixon, I don't believe he compares well. At least he doesn't to me.

This is correct. Perkins started over JRob his senior year when everyone could see it should have been JRob starting. Perkins was good on the short passes. But, JRob was in "Mullen's doghouse" that year. That has to be an awfully big doghouse.
09-20-2016, 03:21 PM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimberBeast

This is correct. Perkins started over JRob his senior year when everyone could see it should have been JRob starting. Perkins was good on the short passes. But, JRob was in "Mullen's doghouse" that year. That has to be an awfully big doghouse.

LOL. I'm starting to think you should get an honorary degree, gold star, or some other award if you're able to stay out of it as a Fr or So RB.
09-20-2016, 03:32 PM
Bothrops

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

I think it's been overblown by both sides of the argument. And I get tired of the it's a copout side blowing it off just as much. But if you couldn't see the instances last weekend of missing assignments and blocks then you are just blinded by what you want to see. And no Holloway is not superior in pass blocking, just his size makes that absurd. But he knows his assignments more consistantly than the others and has the best hands as far as security. Even before the season I stated I wanted Williams to be the feature and still thinks it will happen but he is making glaring mistakes that is severely limiting his ability to get on the field.

This is a Dan issue.
09-20-2016, 03:41 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bothrops

This is a Dan issue.

No. Players have half the responsibility. Too many with the desire to get better have come through the program and took too the coaching and became great players.
09-20-2016, 04:37 PM
BB30

Definitely part of it is on Dan. The other part is somewhat of a crap shoot. Aeris was projected to be extremely good and still has not been able to learn the system. Some of these kids might have all of the athletic ability in the world but if they can't learn the plays then you can't put them out there unless you want to get your QB killed in the process. You miss on one or two guys in consecutive classes and you have created a hole on the depth chart. It does not take but one or two mistakes in recruiting to create a problem. I think that is why you saw us sign so many backs a couple of years ago because we realized the current group was not catching on I.E. Aeris and Lee.
09-20-2016, 04:52 PM
Bothrops

All I know is that if Mullen had started plugging Lee back in the offense last season, and started giving Murphy, Williams and Gibson snaps in week 1, we wouldn't have this RB issue that we now face. Good job, Dan!
09-20-2016, 05:08 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bothrops

All I know is that if Mullen had started plugging Lee back in the offense last season, and started giving Murphy, Williams and Gibson snaps in week 1, we wouldn't have this RB issue that we now face. Good job, Dan!

That's not knowledge. That's false supposition without all of the facts and disregarding what we saw just last weekend from one of these backs you mention. And a big no on Lee last year and this.
09-20-2016, 05:14 PM
Johnson85

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB30

Definitely part of it is on Dan. The other part is somewhat of a crap shoot. Aeris was projected to be extremely good and still has not been able to learn the system. Some of these kids might have all of the athletic ability in the world but if they can't learn the plays then you can't put them out there unless you want to get your QB killed in the process. You miss on one or two guys in consecutive classes and you have created a hole on the depth chart. It does not take but one or two mistakes in recruiting to create a problem. I think that is why you saw us sign so many backs a couple of years ago because we realized the current group was not catching on I.E. Aeris and Lee.

Mullen and Co. haven't missed on one or two guys in consecutive classes. They've missed in four consecutive classes on at least 6 prospects. They got no everydown prospect in 2012 (signed Holloway; only other RB prospect was I guess Xavier Grindle). In 2013 they got Shumpert; no other prospect. In 2014 they got A. Williams and D. Lee. In 2015 they got N. Gibson and Alec Murhpy. If neither Gibson nor Murphy can get playing time considering the competition they are against, I don't think we should expect much out of either, even if it's only their second year on campus.

So for the second year in a row we've ended up with no legitimate SEC back when we didn't go after a JUCO back, and we didn't even use all of our 17ing scholarships. That really is worse than OLine recruiting considering how much easier it is to fill a RB position, where there are at most two positions to fill and realistically anybody good will be able to play their second year on campus compared to OL needing to fill five spots and nobody but studs being ready to play by their second year on campus.
09-20-2016, 05:57 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson85

Mullen and Co. haven't missed on one or two guys in consecutive classes. They've missed in four consecutive classes on at least 6 prospects. They got no everydown prospect in 2012 (signed Holloway; only other RB prospect was I guess Xavier Grindle). In 2013 they got Shumpert; no other prospect. In 2014 they got A. Williams and D. Lee. In 2015 they got N. Gibson and Alec Murhpy. If neither Gibson nor Murphy can get playing time considering the competition they are against, I don't think we should expect much out of either, even if it's only their second year on campus.

So for the second year in a row we've ended up with no legitimate SEC back when we didn't go after a JUCO back, and we didn't even use all of our 17ing scholarships. That really is worse than OLine recruiting considering how much easier it is to fill a RB position, where there are at most two positions to fill and realistically anybody good will be able to play their second year on campus compared to OL needing to fill five spots and nobody but studs being ready to play by their second year on campus.

Johnson, I really respect your opinion... you're probably the smartest con on the political board. With that said, I think you're melting prematurely. You essentially just called 2 rb's 3 games into their sophomore year and 2 rb's that haven't even stepped on the field yet busts. There's been flashes of us running the ball well with our rb's this year even though it hasn't been consistent yet. I think you see shump take over the primary ball carrier this Saturday and we get back to using Holloway as a supplement. I really think this will get us going offensively
09-20-2016, 06:01 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson85

Mullen and Co. haven't missed on one or two guys in consecutive classes. They've missed in four consecutive classes on at least 6 prospects. They got no everydown prospect in 2012 (signed Holloway; only other RB prospect was I guess Xavier Grindle). In 2013 they got Shumpert; no other prospect. In 2014 they got A. Williams and D. Lee. In 2015 they got N. Gibson and Alec Murhpy. If neither Gibson nor Murphy can get playing time considering the competition they are against, I don't think we should expect much out of either, even if it's only their second year on campus.

So for the second year in a row we've ended up with no legitimate SEC back when we didn't go after a JUCO back, and we didn't even use all of our 17ing scholarships. That really is worse than OLine recruiting considering how much easier it is to fill a RB position, where there are at most two positions to fill and realistically anybody good will be able to play their second year on campus compared to OL needing to fill five spots and nobody but studs being ready to play by their second year on campus.

I just want to address this JUCO RB we should have signed the last year or two that people keep bringing up. For the most part there is not one. The top guy went to Florida, he has less yards and less yards per carry than Shump in conference games. The #2 guy signed with MO and he is not even qualified for SEC stats of the top 50. He is also there second or third straight top JUCO RB they have signed. Nothing from any of them. The #3 back went to WV and is their back up. He is around 20th in Big 12 in yards per carry. The # 4 JUCO RB didn't sign. # 5 went to UAB, # 6 went to Utah and hasn't done anything. There were 6 total JUCO RB signed to Power 5 schools. 6. By and large there are not SEC RB waiting in JUCO anymore.
09-20-2016, 06:35 PM
Bothrops

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

That's not knowledge. That's false supposition without all of the facts and disregarding what we saw just last weekend from one of these backs you mention. And a big no on Lee last year and this.

Well what did we see??? What are you talking about? Lee averaged over 6 ypc in the little time he was out there in 2015. That makes him #1 in ypc average this year and last. What's wrong here? If he screwed up that bad, why would he still be on the team?

So, you don't think Gibson or Murphy could contribute now, if they had already cut their teeth in week 1? That'd be pretty hard to believe. And I don't believe it for a second.
09-20-2016, 06:41 PM
I_Spy

Holloway is a playmaker just not up the middle, dear could do that, a. Williams, Ross and gray are playmakers, it's just not in sync and I think Dan was saying it early that the QB's were not separating or standing out. I realize Nick is sophomore and Damian hasn't played much. The offense has no rhythm and u can't tell which one would do better.

Leo Lewis, Jefferson, Simmons, Bryant and spencer are my people this year and next probably.

If they could and maybe they can't, establish one of the other guys dear, a Williams anyone then Holloway would get even more yards on his plays probably as well as Ross and gray I think is what we are saying.

Or it's just not football if we can't get some production up the middle and we went a full year without it last year and we don't want to see that no more.

Obviously we had beckwith and day the last time we could do anything up the middle or the oline pushing downfield. Yes, one of those is on a Super Bowl team. Great job everyone but we can't go 3 years trying to rebuild ...I mean we should have a little push at least 4 or 5 yards by now. Up the mid
09-20-2016, 06:55 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bothrops

Well what did we see??? What are you talking about? Lee averaged over 6 ypc in the little time he was out there in 2015. That makes him #1 in ypc average this year and last. What's wrong here? If he screwed up that bad, why would he still be on the team?

So, you don't think Gibson or Murphy could contribute now, if they had already cut their teeth in week 1? That'd be pretty hard to believe. And I don't believe it for a second.

You didn't see Williams, one of the backs you mentioned and who I like and hope gets it together, miss multiple assignments in his limited action Sat? And not just blocking but a run he was going to get as well.

The time may come that Lee has to leave but I believe he is better off with them trying to get him straightened out being a part of the team. Especially since we have the scholarship available. But like this quote "If a coach can’t trust your effort in the weight room, the classroom and at practice, how can you be trusted to play in a game?" He has to clean up some stuff AND get his head and heart right. And his yard per avg in SEC games last year was 1 yard per carry. He did well in OOC games in small sample he was very timid against SEC opponents. Very timid.

I like Gibson and hope to see him as the season goes.

Murphy, is definitely trailing the other backs.
09-20-2016, 07:03 PM
ATTILLA THE DOG

Gibson is the real deal,trust me on this,if mullen will just give him a chace he will shine
09-20-2016, 07:18 PM
I_Spy

Well Dak says they run an NFL offense and maybe that is hard to learn and could be why our guys play well in NFL...
But we can't bypass college fun just to make great NFL players, we need both. I know Dan is the type to make best player sit. I've never tried to learn football plays. It may be a lot to it. The new staff may get it together.

We need the bird formation the V for victory by oline to run up the mid only way football, as plays, make sense to me.
09-20-2016, 07:57 PM
Bothrops

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

You didn't see Williams, one of the backs you mentioned and who I like and hope gets it together, miss multiple assignments in his limited action Sat? And not just blocking but a run he was going to get as well.

The time may come that Lee has to leave but I believe he is better off with them trying to get him straightened out being a part of the team. Especially since we have the scholarship available. But like this quote "If a coach can’t trust your effort in the weight room, the classroom and at practice, how can you be trusted to play in a game?" He has to clean up some stuff AND get his head and heart right. And his yard per avg in SEC games last year was 1 yard per carry. He did well in OOC games in small sample he was very timid against SEC opponents. Very timid.

I like Gibson and hope to see him as the season goes.

Murphy, is definitely trailing the other backs.

Well I'm glad to hear something positive about one of them, in Gibson. Let's get him on the field some. I remember Lee playing timid a couple of times, but I've also seen him push the pile. Hopefully, they can reach him.
09-20-2016, 08:23 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bothrops

Well I'm glad to hear something positive about one of them, in Gibson. Let's get him on the field some. I remember Lee playing timid a couple of times, but I've also seen him push the pile. Hopefully, they can reach him.

Yeah. And like I said I do like Williams still. Got to execute though in SEC games. Eventhough we haven't talked about him thought Shump had a nice game. He just is what he is but ran with authority last week.
09-20-2016, 08:29 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Yeah. And like I said I do like Williams still. Got to execute though in SEC games. Eventhough we haven't talked about him thought Shump had a nice game. He just is what he is but ran with authority last week.

Not just last week for shump...

Vs USA -- 3 att 14 yds 4.67 yds/att
Vs usce -- 5 att 28 yds 5.60 yds/att
Vs lsu -- 6 att 34 yds 5.67 yds/att

He's earned the right to be the starter this week imo. He needs 10-15 carries Saturday
09-20-2016, 08:39 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

Not just last week for shump...

Vs USA -- 3 att 14 yds 4.67 yds/att
Vs usce -- 5 att 28 yds 5.60 yds/att
Vs lsu -- 6 att 34 yds 5.67 yds/att

He's earned the right to be the starter this week imo. He needs 10-15 carries Saturday

True. Just still wasn't as sold that he was really able to sustain that until last week against a much tougher defense. He wasn't bad in the Bowl game last year either. Just Williams had that long run that kind of over shadowed it.
09-20-2016, 08:47 PM
Bothrops

Williams has a little quick to him. I'd like to see him catching a pass out of the backfield.

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