I'm just going to put this out there on Fitzgerald and Williams.....

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

That's bullshit. Williams got the same play calls as Fitz, he just made the better read and moved the ball.

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This is the problem!! Fitz should not get the same play calls as Williams. Fitz is in the mold of relf but potentially a higher ceiling if he develops as a passer like dak did. Williams is dak light.

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Originally Posted by ElitedawgRecruiting

Here's my only observation from a practice and game standpoint so take it however you will. I am a veteran. A proud one at that. And when I go to battle the guy leading me doesn't have to be the most liked guy. But he does has to be the most prepared guy. So blame Dan and blame Damien all you want. The problem isn't them. The problem is Fitz just won't step up and take control of HIS team. Until that light comes on its not a Mullen or Williams problem. It's a Nicky Fitz problem

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If that's the case, what's keeping Tiano off the field? Talk is that he has the "it" factor, but I've also heard he struggles with routine short throws in practice.

One thing that can be reasonably inferred is that Mullen saw some things in Fitz that he really did not like in terms of decision making while he was out there, and he wasn't comfortable putting him back out there until the game was no longer in doubt. Those likely include the wrong read on the read option, staring down receivers, being late on reads, waiting for guys to come open before throwing, etc. He did at least one of those things on every snap he was out there. Damien has his limitations physically, but he made the correct decisions while he was out there. Unfortunately, the supporting cast and the play calling / personnel decisions weren't good enough for us to put the game out of reach so Fitz could go back in. Our biggest issue is lack of identity on offense. We don't have a bell cow at another position (like RB) that we can lean on while these QB's get their feet under them, and neither Fitz nor Damien should have been relied on heavily to win that game with their arm.

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Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX

If that's the case, what's keeping Tiano off the field? Talk is that he has the "it" factor, but I've also heard he struggles with routine short throws in practice.

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You answered your own question. If he was consistent in practice as things stand today, Fitz would be third string

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Fitz is an option QB and we didn't run the option. Damian gives us a chance at maybe 5 wins max. Dan shouldn't make Fitz try to go through 4 progressions when he can run like he is able. Fitz looked good backing up Dak last year, I don't know why we wouldn't give him more opportunities especially in the 2nd half when we were "rolling" to 3 points. I say give Fitz most of the 1st half and then if he still looks like garbage bring out Tiano.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Agreed. Both QBs should have been running the ball first and foremost. Everybody knows this except Mullen.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Forgot about that, Holloway got the ball up the gut. I want to see Fitz run the Relf offense before I give up on him.

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Originally Posted by fishwater99

Why did Dan do this, he wanted to play Williams b/c he is the upperclassman..

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Originally Posted by Technetium

Regarding the Relf-offense:

For those more in the know than myself, is that something that can be implemented now that the season has started, or should we have been practicing that in Spring/Fall camp for it to be a legitimate strategy this year? Given how much Mullen still wanted to pass and use the wrong RBs for situations, I'm guessing we didn't practice much of that style in the off-season...

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We are still running the ref offense just out of a different set. The qb is still reading off what the end does. The only difference is we are doing it out of the gun and no full back.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Ding! Get him settled. An easy, no read pass. A called qb run. Jet sweep to Mixon, gray, miles, or Ross (who didn't touch ball 1st quarter and when he finally did went 45 yards). It was just a horrible script of first 6 plays and it pisses me off.

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Fitz wasn't even handling the snaps well. He looked completely lost and like a deer in the headlights. I said before the season started I wanted to see him take snaps that mattered (which he had never done)before I formed an opinion. Based on what I saw, at the moment he isn't the answer.

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Originally Posted by Technetium

Regarding the Relf-offense:

For those more in the know than myself, is that something that can be implemented now that the season has started, or should we have been practicing that in Spring/Fall camp for it to be a legitimate strategy this year? Given how much Mullen still wanted to pass and use the wrong RBs for situations, I'm guessing we didn't practice much of that style in the off-season...

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Unless we can sign a FB mid-season, that offense isn't coming back this season.

Personally, I don't read body language to tell me if a team will or won't play for someone. That is the coaches job. In Mullen's post game he said there were nerves and such which is certainly understandable. He said Fitz had 2 drops so that ends the argument to me on that. Dam.williams basically played the whole game, and played well. But we lost. We lost to an inferior opponent with our QB playing well. That tells me he's not our QB. The plays change for dam.williams so that should also be put in the equation somewhere. That is well known that there are necessary plays that dam.williams simply can't execute. Not his fault, but we need those plays. Fitz or Tiano need to be our QB to have a chance to win, and I hope that is evident to Dan by now.

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Originally Posted by GreenheadDawg

So does anybody know the actual truth about Fitz and the team? Is he really not like or is that a rumor? I've heard he's had some off the field issues but nothing in detail

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I've heard some of the same...........but not what the team thinks. Ne details with me either.

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Originally Posted by ElitedawgRecruiting

You answered your own question. If he was consistent in practice as things stand today, Fitz would be third string

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Is that more to due with his development at this stage or is the offense so complicated he's pressing?

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Originally Posted by ElitedawgRecruiting

You answered your own question. If he was consistent in practice as things stand today, Fitz would be third string

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I hate hearing this because the last QB we had who was reportedly inconsistent in practice is starting for the Dallas Cowboys on Sunday. This season is probably shot at this point, so why don't we let the guy with the most upside start getting reps?

I don't think any of them have to be Dak. But one needs to step up and be Dak-like in the lockerroom. Maybe Damien is more mature and the team sees that. I want Nick go take the job and run with it. But for whatever reason he hasn't. Not sure he has anyone to blame for that but the Abercrombie model in fe mirror

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

I'm not saying fitz isn't better than Williams, I think he has more upside for sure. However, we ran the first play of the game to his strength and he read it wrong or he'd still be running....he's the better runner of the two by far and he didn't capitalize on it. Now 6 plays shouldn't and won't be his end, but he failed on those 6. Drops be damned.

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He failed Bc he missed one read on zone read? He failed Bc jj dropped a ball that was thrown where it needed to be, one foot over his head, and hit him in both hands?

Our coaches failed him with a horrible script of first 6 plays. First three plays should require no reads and include a called qb run and a touch to a playmaker (Ross, Mixon, gray, etc on a jet sweep).

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Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX

Unless we can sign a FB mid-season, that offense isn't coming back this season.

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I had assumed that would be Shumpert with our current personnel, but your point it well taken. I also don't expect to see that physical style of play, but since others had mentioned wanting to run it *this* year, it seemed like a good question.

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Originally Posted by ElitedawgRecruiting

I don't think any of them have to be Dak. But one needs to step up and be Dak-like in the lockerroom. Maybe Damien is more mature and the team sees that. I want Nick go take the job and run with it. But for whatever reason he hasn't. Not sure he has anyone to blame for that but the Abercrombie model in fe mirror

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That sounds like what exactly didn't happen at halftime of the USA game. The young guys were thinking it was over and non of the upper-classmen nipped that shit in the bud.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I had no problem sticking with Williams in the 1st half but Damian didn't set the world on fire in the 2nd half. Dan or Brian Johnson should have been talking to Fitz on the sideline or at halftime and then give him another shot. Instead we let Damian lead a couple of drives that at most results in FGs. That isn't having the offense rolling, that is shitting the bed against a mediocre at best Sunbelt team.

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When would you have made the change though? We only had two drives in the 3rd quarter and 5 total the second half. The first drive we kicked a FG. So you wouldn't pull him then unless we had kept the lead. The second drive we went into USA territory and stalled at the 41. Then they score to make it 20-14. Our next drive we cross mid field again. The last 2 drives are missed FG. Maybe after the second stall in USA territory you look at changing but there were not a ton of opportunities

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Fitz wasn't even handling the snaps well. He looked completely lost and like a deer in the headlights. I said before the season started I wanted to see him take snaps that mattered (which he had never done)before I formed an opinion. Based on what I saw, at the moment he isn't the answer.

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He mishandled a snap? I missed that. Not saying you are wrong

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

One thing that can be reasonably inferred is that Mullen saw some things in Fitz that he really did not like in terms of decision making while he was out there, and he wasn't comfortable putting him back out there until the game was no longer in doubt. Those likely include the wrong read on the read option, staring down receivers, being late on reads, waiting for guys to come open before throwing, etc. He did at least one of those things on every snap he was out there. Damien has his limitations physically, but he made the correct decisions while he was out there. Unfortunately, the supporting cast and the play calling / personnel decisions weren't good enough for us to put the game out of reach so Fitz could go back in. Our biggest issue is lack of identity on offense. We don't have a bell cow at another position (like RB) that we can lean on while these QB's get their feet under them, and neither Fitz nor Damien should have been relied on heavily to win that game with their arm.

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I saw Willams do everything you said that Fitz did wrong in his six snaps. Williams played well overall. He executed after failing to execute, because he kept playing. Fitz didn't have that luxury. But the luxury he does have is size, athletic ability, speed, more plays to choose from and can make enough plays to keep the D honest. Those things Williams doesn't have. Williams played well, but failed to beat an inferior opponent. So which opponent will he be able to beat? Maybe none, so we have to go in a different direction to have a chance to win a ballgame. We only have two options right now. I don't care which one. I want to beat inferior opponents convincingly, and have a chance to beat the rest.

If I remember correctly Fitz looked pretty good last year in the Troy game when Dak was sick. I think Dak only played a couple of series.
Troy was a bad Sunbelt team and Fitz led us to a blowout win. Has he regressed that much?

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Originally Posted by ElitedawgRecruiting

Here's my only observation from a practice and game standpoint so take it however you will. I am a veteran. A proud one at that. And when I go to battle the guy leading me doesn't have to be the most liked guy. But he does has to be the most prepared guy. So blame Dan and blame Damien all you want. The problem isn't them. The problem is Fitz just won't step up and take control of HIS team. Until that light comes on its not a Mullen or Williams problem. It's a Nicky Fitz problem

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Fair enough but it's Dan's job to make sure the QB's are prepared and to play the one that is the most experienced. It's not like Fitzgerald is the only option. Tiano is an option and then we have Roberts the walk-on as well.

It's too bad Staley transferred out because I don't see how he lost to Damien and Fitz other than he likes to dance too much.

And maybe I watched a different game then you guys. But I don't think quarterback play cost us the game as much as our first year DC looked like a first year DC. At some point you have to figure out how to stop the pass. And after halftime Joey Jones made the adjustment. Our defense didn't

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Originally Posted by confucius say

He failed Bc he missed one read on zone read? He failed Bc jj dropped a ball that was thrown where it needed to be, one foot over his head, and hit him in both hands?

Our coaches failed him with a horrible script of first 6 plays. First three plays should require no reads and include a called qb run and a touch to a playmaker (Ross, Mixon, gray, etc on a jet sweep).

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I'm sorry but the zone read he should do in his sleep at this point. It's always a main cog in our book. Want to discuss the pass plays, ok. But the zone read was NOT making the script too difficult for Fitz. That's a huge stretch.

I agree with that 100%. But the best coach in the world can only lead a players that is devoted do being lead

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Fitz is an option QB and we didn't run the option. Damian gives us a chance at maybe 5 wins max. Dan shouldn't make Fitz try to go through 4 progressions when he can run like he is able. Fitz looked good backing up Dak last year, I don't know why we wouldn't give him more opportunities especially in the 2nd half when we were "rolling" to 3 points. I say give Fitz most of the 1st half and then if he still looks like garbage bring out Tiano.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Agreed. Both QBs should have been running the ball first and foremost. Everybody knows this except Mullen.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Forgot about that, Holloway got the ball up the gut. I want to see Fitz run the Relf offense before I give up on him.

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Originally Posted by fishwater99

Why did Dan do this, he wanted to play Williams b/c he is the upperclassman..

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Originally Posted by Technetium

Regarding the Relf-offense:

For those more in the know than myself, is that something that can be implemented now that the season has started, or should we have been practicing that in Spring/Fall camp for it to be a legitimate strategy this year? Given how much Mullen still wanted to pass and use the wrong RBs for situations, I'm guessing we didn't practice much of that style in the off-season...

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Originally Posted by confucius say

He failed Bc he missed one read on zone read? He failed Bc jj dropped a ball that was thrown where it needed to be, one foot over his head, and hit him in both hands?

Our coaches failed him with a horrible script of first 6 plays. First three plays should require no reads and include a called qb run and a touch to a playmaker (Ross, Mixon, gray, etc on a jet sweep).

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Every play in football today has a read from special teams to defenses. He just missed the read end of story. The game isn't the same as it was 10 years ago.

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Originally Posted by ElitedawgRecruiting

And maybe I watched a different game then you guys. But I don't think quarterback play cost us the game as much as our first year DC looked like a first year DC. At some point you have to figure out how to stop the pass. And after halftime Joey Jones made the adjustment. Our defense didn't

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It all ties together. If we keep the ball more in the second half, their offense stays off the field. Plenty of blame to go around, but how does a QB not have the ability to complete a 15 yard pass down the field?

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

I'm sorry but the zone read he should do in his sleep at this point. It's always a main cog in our book. Want to discuss the pass plays, ok. But the zone read was NOT making the script too difficult for Fitz. That's a huge stretch.

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I agree he should be able to run the zone read on his sleep. The point is one missed read on a zone read doesn't = failed. And the larger point is don't require to him make any reads initially. Get him settled.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

It all ties together. If we keep the ball more in the second half, their offense stays off the field. Plenty of blame to go around, but how does a QB not have the ability to complete a 15 yard pass down the field?

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Same way the heir apparent doesn't have the ability to separate himself from the guy with that limitation. Put in the work. Show the coaches and team football is more important then frat life and ass, and maybe you succeed. Kelly succeeds doing both.(lucky last chance u wasn't made that year huh Chad).

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

It all ties together. If we keep the ball more in the second half, their offense stays off the field. Plenty of blame to go around, but how does a QB not have the ability to complete a 15 yard pass down the field?

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It's hard to complete passes to receivers who are covered. Dak could put the ball in where it normally wouldn't go and we got used to that. The receivers were not getting separation for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Fitz is an option QB and we didn't run the option. Damian gives us a chance at maybe 5 wins max. Dan shouldn't make Fitz try to go through 4 progressions when he can run like he is able. Fitz looked good backing up Dak last year, I don't know why we wouldn't give him more opportunities especially in the 2nd half when we were "rolling" to 3 points. I say give Fitz most of the 1st half and then if he still looks like garbage bring out Tiano.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Agreed. Both QBs should have been running the ball first and foremost. Everybody knows this except Mullen.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Forgot about that, Holloway got the ball up the gut. I want to see Fitz run the Relf offense before I give up on him.

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Originally Posted by fishwater99

Why did Dan do this, he wanted to play Williams b/c he is the upperclassman..

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Originally Posted by Technetium

Regarding the Relf-offense:

For those more in the know than myself, is that something that can be implemented now that the season has started, or should we have been practicing that in Spring/Fall camp for it to be a legitimate strategy this year? Given how much Mullen still wanted to pass and use the wrong RBs for situations, I'm guessing we didn't practice much of that style in the off-season...

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

It all ties together. If we keep the ball more in the second half, their offense stays off the field. Plenty of blame to go around, but how does a QB not have the ability to complete a 15 yard pass down the field?

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If the d had stopped them more we would have had the ball more. How many times did we punt in the second half? Once?

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

Every play in football today has a read from special teams to defenses. He just missed the read end of story. The game isn't the same as it was 10 years ago.

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Uh no. I'm talking about reads as where to throw the football once the ball is snapped and whether to give or keep on a run once the ball is snapped. A designed qb run doesn't require that. A jet sweep to a playmaker doesn't require that. Make it easy on the kid early.

If he can't make a zone read then he doesn't need to play. It is easy as that.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

I agree he should be able to run the zone read on his sleep. The point is one missed read on a zone read doesn't = failed. And the larger point is don't require to him make any reads initially. Get him settled.

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That's the thing. That play should be settling for him and there are always reads. You are not going to eliminate that.

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

If he can't make a zone read then he doesn't need to play. It is easy as that.

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If he can't do it Consistently? True. If he missed it one time? That's crazy. Dak would never have played again after ok st in 2013 if that were the case.

And I don't know if he can do it consistently, but I'd like to find out. If he can't, then he can't play with his skill set and we move on.

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

If he can't make a zone read then he doesn't need to play. It is easy as that.

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So he gets one chance at one play, but williams gets the entire game to show that he couldn't beat some high school teams? Makes perfect sense.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Uh no. I'm talking about reads as where to throw the football once the ball is snapped and whether to give or keep on a run once the ball is snapped. A designed qb run doesn't require that. A jet sweep to a playmaker doesn't require that. Make it easy on the kid early.

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Our jet sweeps have read option, triple option and run pass option components to them. But it is easier than a simple zone read with a RB?

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

That's the thing. That play should be settling for him and there are always reads. You are not going to eliminate that.

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People, no one is saying you can eliminate reads throughout a game. But I've given you several examples of how it can be done in a five play script to start the career of a guy who is raw and a great athlete, but inexperienced, in order to settle him in and get him comfortable.

I'm not ready to give up on fitz or say he failed Saturday Bc he missed one read on a zone read. I need more.

A zone read is the simplest play you can call in college football today. You said give him something easy and we did. That's all I'm saying.

I think he should play, but to blame Dan for not giving him a easy play call on the first play of the game is just bs

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Originally Posted by ElitedawgRecruiting

And maybe I watched a different game then you guys. But I don't think quarterback play cost us the game as much as our first year DC looked like a first year DC. At some point you have to figure out how to stop the pass. And after halftime Joey Jones made the adjustment. Our defense didn't

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Our first year DC looking like a first year DC still held them to 21 points. That's not good for a sunbelt team, but it's crazy to think a D (missing its tarting cbs) letting them score 21 points is in the ball park of being as bad as only scoring 20 against a sun belt team that lost basically its entire starting DL.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Our jet sweeps have read option, triple option and run pass option components to them. But it is easier than a simple zone read with a RB?

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I can't help you if you think the jet sweep to Ross that went 45 yards (on his first touch) had a read option or rpo (run pass option) built in for the Qb. That is not true and you know it. Qb receives ball, hands/flips it to #8, and watches him run. That's all. No thought process.

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Originally Posted by ElitedawgRecruiting

Here's my only observation from a practice and game standpoint so take it however you will. I am a veteran. A proud one at that. And when I go to battle the guy leading me doesn't have to be the most liked guy. But he does has to be the most prepared guy. So blame Dan and blame Damien all you want. The problem isn't them. The problem is Fitz just won't step up and take control of HIS team. Until that light comes on its not a Mullen or Williams problem. It's a Nicky Fitz problem

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Nick Fitzgerald may have a problem. But if Fitzgerald has the problem of not wanting to lead, and Damien has the problem of not being a legitimate power 5 QB, and Staley had the problem of not being able to compete with D. Williams, and Tiano has the problem of not being able to beat out Williams after being on campus for a year, I think it's safe to say the biggest problem is Dan Mullen.