Is Coach O a realistic candidate?

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I'm normally on the "if O was a good DC he'd be a DC" train....but **** it....It's not like we didn't get torched by every competent offense we faced this year, so O probably won't do any worse. AND we will recruit better. Hell, give him a 1 year deal for $750k....if our defense sucks next year, fire him after he helps us finish this year's class & recruit next year's. What have we got to lose at this point? It's not like next year we're expecting 10 wins or wanting to send Dak off a winner. BRING ON DA WILDBOYS!!

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He ain't coming for a one year deal.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

This is kind of how I feel as well.

I completely understand what Engie is saying & believe that what he is saying is correct 90+% of the time, but I think it may be time to take a risk. If it blows up, it blows up.

I just don't see this program being able to take the next step unless we improve our talent level & take some risks. The move would offer us immediate credibility on the recruiting trail & I actually think would the defense to play extremely hard and fast. Surround him with competent Xs & Os guys, & think it could work.

I'll trust Mullen on this because I don't think he'd hire a clueless Xs & Os guy. If he hires O, he believe there is something between the ears.

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Typically the D recruiting has not been that bad, particularly the DL. Unless the new DC can recruit OL and RB's, how much will it help? Maybe he could recruit the D so well that it will force someone to do something about the OL.

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Originally Posted by engie

He ain't coming for a one year deal.

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Yea I know. Short as possible though

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Not the head coach....just the DC/Crootin Coordinator. Would actually make some sense. I don't agree with going 100% recruiting, & no development...but hiring O would give us a good mix u would think.

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We're not talking player development here. That's not what a DC does. Playcalling. Adjusting. Scheming. A DC is a chess players. Does Coach O strike you as a chess player? What in his career gives you the impression that he's good at any of the 3 above? Why has he never done it?

Over half our fanbase is fully ready to mortgage our future and everything we've gained for a few more recruits on a hail mary that no other athletics administration in the country is willing to role the dice on is beyond comprehension for me. It's no guarantee it can't work -- but it's putting all of our money on snake eyes. It's the most Ole Miss thing ever. Except in the current tense they actually have a competent DC that they don't ask to recruit -- and instead surround him with recruiters that stockpile him with talent that he can make look awesome on Saturdays.

You don't mortgage the DC spot to recruit. I'm sorry -- you just don't. The coordinator opposite the head coach's background is the one position you've got to have competent x's and o's above all else. Moreover -- in the current SECW -- with our built-in disadvantages -- you need an x's and o's savant in that spot.

LSU is the #1 class in the country right now -- and Ogre is barely in the top 25 of recruiters. He's not the only elite recruiter in the country. But since our fans only apparently pay attention to us and Ole Miss -- they are totally obsessed with him. Hell, let's hire Frank Wilson for a million and make him defensive coordinator. Why not hire Brewster for the spot? I get that there's a difference there -- but it highlights my point.

If Dan is going to insist on bend but don't break- and he will even if we hired Buddy Ryan- the ONLY way it will work is with elite talent. And O can get that for us.

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Originally Posted by IMissJack

Typically the D recruiting has not been that bad, particularly the DL. Unless the new DC can recruit OL and RB's, how much will it help? Maybe he could recruit the D so well that it will force someone to do something about the OL.

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It gonna take more than "not that bad" to get where we want to go.

Ole Miss & Alabama's defenses play at a different speed than ours. We need to get better.

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Originally Posted by IMissJack

Typically the D recruiting has not been that bad, particularly the DL. Unless the new DC can recruit OL and RB's, how much will it help? Maybe he could recruit the D so well that it will force someone to do something about the OL.

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He brought in Oher, Jerry, and Green-Ellis I believe.

One thing is for sure, if we do not up assistant salaries and get some continuity from good coaches (all positions), it is going to be hard to build anything better.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

If Dan is going to insist on bend but don't break- and he will even if we hired Buddy Ryan- the ONLY way it will work is with elite talent. And O can get that for us.

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Did we not just set the school record for TFL?

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Originally Posted by engie

We're not talking player development here. That's not what a DC does. Playcalling. Adjusting. Scheming. A DC is a chess players. Does Coach O strike you as a chess player? What in his career gives you the impression that he's good at any of the 3 above? Why has he never done it?

Over half our fanbase is fully ready to mortgage our future and everything we've gained for a few more recruits on a hail mary that no other athletics administration in the country is willing to role the dice on is beyond comprehension for me. It's no guarantee it can't work -- but it's putting all of our money on snake eyes. It's the most Ole Miss thing ever. Except in the current tense they actually have a competent DC that they don't ask to recruit -- and instead surround him with recruiters that stockpile him with talent that he can make look awesome on Saturdays.

You don't mortgage the DC spot to recruit. I'm sorry -- you just don't. The coordinator opposite the head coach's background is the one position you've got to have competent x's and o's above all else. Moreover -- in the current SECW -- with our built-in disadvantages -- you need an x's and o's savant in that spot.

LSU is the #1 class in the country right now -- and Ogre is barely in the top 25 of recruiters. He's not the only elite recruiter in the country. But since our fans only apparently pay attention to us and Ole Miss -- they are totally obsessed with him. Hell, let's hire Frank Wilson for a million and make him defensive coordinator. Why not hire Brewster for the spot? I get that there's a difference there -- but it highlights my point.

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We promoted Geoff Collins and we'd never seen him play chess. I didn't say it was a 100% guarantee to work. O can't be a worse "chess player" than Chris Wilson, and while Wilson was bad, he didn't tear down our program.

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Originally Posted by engie

Did we not just set the school record for TFL?

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Did we not just set the school record for least fumbles recovered?

After a small amount of looking around, Lance Thompson would be a much better hire than O if we could get him

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

We promoted Geoff Collins and we'd never seen him play chess. I didn't say it was a 100% guarantee to work. O can't be a worse "chess player" than Chris Wilson, and while Wilson was bad, he didn't tear down our program.

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Collins had been coordinator at 3 different schools before joining us. Including FIU.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Collins had been coordinator at 3 different schools before joining us. Including FIU.

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Thought he was just linebackers. Oh well. Chris Wilson then ha

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

We promoted Geoff Collins and we'd never seen him play chess

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Wrong. He was in the running for the Broyles Award as a DC before we hired him.

And it can absolutely get worse than Chris Wilson was.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Did we not just set the school record for least fumbles recovered?

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Because of "bend don't break"?

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Originally Posted by engie

Wrong. He was in the running for the Broyles Award as a DC before we hired him.

And it can absolutely get worse than Chris Wilson was.

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Ok. Not getting into a classic 9 page "engie wants to argue" thread....so I'll just agree to disagree. O likely wouldn't be as bad or worse than Wilson. I'd rather have Thompson though.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Ok. Not getting into a classic 9 page "engie wants to argue" thread....so I'll just agree to disagree. O likely wouldn't be as bad or worse than Wilson. I'd rather have Thompson though.

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Wilson was bad though bro. I was so glad he was turned loose..lol

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Originally Posted by bulldawg28

Wilson was bad though bro. I was so glad he was turned loose..lol

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Me too! That's my point, Wilson was awful & even HE didn't derail our program....so freaking out at the mere thought of O seems silly to me.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Ok. Not getting into a classic 9 page "engie wants to argue" thread....so I'll just agree to disagree. O likely wouldn't be as bad or worse than Wilson. I'd rather have Thompson though.

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I'd rather have O. He knows the area well and would probably do all he could do to beat Ole Miss. His LSU DL looked very good this year imo.

As they say Jimmy's & Joe's beats X's & O's

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Originally Posted by dawgoneyall

As they say Jimmy's & Joe's beats X's & O's

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yeah, but Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss etc are ALWAYS gonna have their own Jimmies and Joes. gonna take X's & O's to beat them. i would hope the last few years would have taught our fanbase that, but our fanbase is too interested in making excuses, not analyzing and improving. i guess that means we have the perfect HC for our fanbase.

You don't beat teams with more talent often and certainly not consistently.

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Originally Posted by dawgoneyall

As they say Jimmy's & Joe's beats X's & O's

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So your solution is to start out recruiting Alabama and lsu?

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Originally Posted by NCDawg

I'd rather have O. He knows the area well and would probably do all he could do to beat Ole Miss. His LSU DL looked very good this year imo.

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A good DL means you can call a defense. It is known**

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Originally Posted by NCDawg

I'd rather have O. He knows the area well and would probably do all he could do to beat Ole Miss. His LSU DL looked very good this year imo.

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They looked real good against UNM and Bama ? In both games they got trucked, we are already well adept at that aspect regarding Bama and UNM.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Ok. Not getting into a classic 9 page "engie wants to argue" thread....so I'll just agree to disagree. O likely wouldn't be as bad or worse than Wilson. I'd rather have Thompson though.

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Wilson coached a top 25 defense here people seem to have forgotten. The best scoring D here in what is approaching 20 years. In the end, I agree he wasn't a great DC -- mainly because of the cluster 17 he created in his own position group with the Cherry starting at DT and Eulls at DE insanity. We are still living off his DL talent though. Since it's all about crootin and all...

And no, I wasn't looking to argue. Just that the attempted point about Collins was a really bad one. In reality -- we have fielded 5 good defenses here in 7 years -- and our fans are now singing kumbaya and assuming it's a given when it isn't.

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Originally Posted by engie

So your solution is to start out recruiting Alabama and lsu?

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Of course it is! (lol) But the real solution, would be the answer in HOW we'd out-recruit Bama and LSU. :confused:

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Originally Posted by 32 Dive

Of course it is! (lol) But the real solution, would be the answer in HOW we'd out-recruit Bama and LSU. :confused:

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We won't unless we get Saban or urban Meyer... In other words, we won't

Basically we can't out recruit Ole Miss or Auburn or Bama or LSU or A&M or Arkansas for that matter.And we shouldn't expect to, because we are Miss State.

So we need to hire a defensive genius, because he needs to take 2 and 3 star recruits and beat 5 star players.

So who are the candidates?

Nah. Just out recruit MSU.

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Originally Posted by cheewgumm

Basically we can't out recruit Ole Miss or Auburn or Bama or LSU or A&M or Arkansas for that matter.And we shouldn't expect to, because we are Miss State.

So we need to hire a defensive genius, because he needs to take 2 and 3 star recruits and beat 5 star players.

So who are the candidates?

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Exactly. We have people believing this shit.

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Originally Posted by 32 Dive

Of course it is! (lol) But the real solution, would be the answer in HOW we'd out-recruit Bama and LSU. :confused:

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It's literally not possible. All this OM hoopla -- and they haven't done it either. Nor will they. They haven't out recruited auburn or aTm yet either. Not even once yet.

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Originally Posted by Jacksondevildog

Exactly. We have people believing this shit.

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The funny thing is -- what you believe is dumber.

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Originally Posted by cheewgumm

Basically we can't out recruit Ole Miss or Auburn or Bama or LSU or A&M or Arkansas for that matter.And we shouldn't expect to, because we are Miss State.

So we need to hire a defensive genius, because he needs to take 2 and 3 star recruits and beat 5 star players.

So who are the candidates?

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Since when do we not outrecruit Arkansas?

No one is our recruiting the big 3 in the west. And it's moronic beyond belief that its what people think is our path to future success now. All over a guy that's the 25th best recruiter in the country right now on the #1 recruiting staff. Let's give him not one -- but two -- jobs he's never done -- in the sec west -- because we are jealous of one of his protege's recruiting success at Ole Miss and the only possible solution is to imitate them as closely as possible.

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Originally Posted by engie

It's literally not possible. All this OM hoopla -- and they haven't done it either. Nor will they. They haven't out recruited auburn or aTm yet either. Not even once yet.

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One big advantage we have over Ole Miss is we dominate Mississippi in recruiting unless a player is from Oxford. Even then we hold our own in South Panola.

All we really need to do is recruit the o-line better and maybe add in 2-3 elite out of state prospects to that and we will pass Ole Miss easily.

Now Orgeron can do that for us- might have landed Sullivan and Willie Allen for us- and maybe Thompson can as well. I'd like to get both of possible.

Thompson is probably safer of a hire when you are talking about DC and recruiter, but O has a higher upside but more risk.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Yep, even a worse case scenario we suck on D for 1 year, but at least Mullen can learn a lot about recruiting. O taught Freeze everything he knows.

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Ray Lewis- LBers coach
Ed Reed- Safeties coach

Could you imagine how nasty that D would be. Wouldn't even have to recruit you would have kids waiting in line to sign.

People feel like we need to recruit better. It's not "moronic" to want better recruiters on our coaching staff. It's perfectly logical.

We don't think we are sacrificing and X and O genius because we have seen the last 7 hires. What would make us think that if we don't hire a recruiter that we're getting the defensive genius coach?

I'm going to continue to hope we hire a great recruiter. I'll take my chances with great players and the chance of a lesser defensive X and O guy.

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Originally Posted by engie

The funny thing is -- what you believe is dumber.

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Damn. I got dealt with.

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Originally Posted by djaymsu5

Ray Lewis- LBers coach
Ed Reed- Safeties coach

Could you imagine how nasty that D would be. Wouldn't even have to recruit you would have kids waiting in line to sign.

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Yeah the way they have coached at....do you honestly think bringing two guys with no experience is a good idea in the SEC? Great players. Have no clue if they even want to coach much less are capable. Much bigger chance that they would be inept vs making the defense nasty. Never mind we have some DL personnel defiences for a 3-4 defense that they have played in their entire careers at the NFL.