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There is 40 bowl games, which equals 80 teams. I'm not sure but it's around 120 D1 schools total. If you don't go to a bowl game , you should be fired. I'm all for having a total of 20 bowls, which allows the top 40 to play one additional game. Making a statement that we have been to 6 straight bowls, doesn't really mean anything
20 bowls would not result in the top 40 teams going to bowls unless you intend to get rid of bowl tie ins for non-power 5 schools. The tots number of bowls is irrelevant when taking about an sec school at this point. A bowl game means you won at least two sec games and sweeping non conference. Starting next year, a bowl game will mean a minimum of three wins over power five schools and sweeping non power five out of conference gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by raymond21
Getting to a bowl game is no huge accompaniment, but never missing a bow game still means something, as evidenced by the fact that auburn, ark, and um haven't been able to do it.
It does mean something because for almost all of our history, certainly our modern history we wouldn't have gone to six straight even under today's bowl set up. Go back and look. What Todd is claiming as a floor now would have been above our ceiling not all that long ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by raymond21
FYI, I'm hearing that LSU is doing everything they can this recruiting cycle, their coaches know they are on a 1 year deal, and they are going down swinging.
You must have been in a coma when the 2001 Miami Hurricanes were running roughshod over everybody. That team had 38 draft picks, including SEVENTEEN first rounders, and also had a double digit number of future Pro Bowlers including Jeremy Shockey, Jonathan Vilma, Vince Wilfork, Sean Taylor, Frank Gore, Clinton Portis, Willis McGahee, Andre Johnson, Kellen Winslow II and others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
Of course, they used the most notorious recruiting tactics since SMU in the 80's to land those guys. And speaking of programs that will be extinct for the forseeable future, that is another one.
This^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Gator, Music City, Gator, Liberty, Orange, and then finally Belk. The latter one is the only "new" bowl since bowls exploded past the 20-25 total market that should never have been crossed. Even then, the Belk came in as a mid-tier bowl, not G5 vs. G5. Gator, Orange, and Liberty are very old. We have not been going to bowls because there are more bowls. This would have been six straight in the 90s and probably 5 of 6 in the 80s and 4-5 of 6 on the 1970s.
It is the 5 win abominations and nonpower schools that are going to more bowls because there are more bowls, not MSU. It has very little effect on SEC teams, only the 6-6 might have been affected some years.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
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Originally Posted by BulldogBear
We didn't go bowling with 7-4 in 97 and 6-5 in 86. I would guess that Dan would have missed bowling with the 2011 and 2013 teams in the 90's more than likely not to mention again the advent of the 12th game.
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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Our history is bad so let's accept average even after getting to number one because our history is bad. Again- mediocre thought process.
It proves the opposite. It only means what you say it does if you take it as a given that our current position is our ceiling. which is of course the view of the poor ol state crowd. if instead you think MSU can be a NC contender, then the current status of our program is huge red flag. if you are not moving forward, then you are falling behind. we're not moving forward. those that are happy where they are will never care that they are falling behind, but those with their eye on the end goal will always strive to continue moving forward. way of the world boyo, you are who you are, just accept it and quit bothering us with your defeatist attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
You done bumped yo head, especially regarding Miami.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
Granted, they need to figure out their stadium situation, and yes, the whole eastern side of the country recruits south Florida. But they can still get back. I just laugh at ya'lls tunnel vision. How many of you thought South Carolina was now a destination job?
The formula for Nebraska? High level defensive guy (I know nothing about Mike Riley, he may already be this), and institute a run-based spread offense, very similar to ours or maybe Rich Rod's. Maybe even an option. Lock down ALL the instate talent, which really should not be that difficult. I would go to Los Angeles, Atlanta and Miami almost exclusively for skill players, and heavily hit the Kansas JUCOs. Sell the B1G angle. I bet they could find some ancillary guys in the surrounding states, Chicago and Detroit too that would like Lincoln. I wouldn't even mess with Texas.
Miami? I think it gets back to the stadium. They really need a facility that says, 'The U'. Get that, and nothing can hold them back. I think a smaller place like what Tulane just built, could be perfect for them. For big games, they could still play at Sun Life or whatever it is.
Going to go ahead and throw this out there, regarding Mike Riley:
- Lost on a hail mary fluke to BYU in his first game
- Lost a crazy game to Miami as well, if I remember correctly, OT, after they had a big lead
- Lost 3 other games by a total of 5 points
- Beat a playoff team
- Beat a pretty good Pac-12 team in the bowl
- OOC sked consisted of BYU, Miami, USA and USM - not too shabby
Yeah they still went 5-7, so he's still got a ton to prove. But, the results are what they are. I didn't think Riley had the best resume out there but I think you can tell that they aren't all that bad off. Interesting to see what he can do when it becomes 'his' team in the next few years.
Todd's general attitude about Mullen and 'mediocrity' is pretty terrible, but this is a valid point that I've tried to mention on here plenty of times. In the 90s, without the 12 game (which is the FCS game), we were 5-6 in 2011 and 2013.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
That being said, to me, bowls should not be handed out based on record, but more on some sort of BCS/committee/Power ranking that factors in SOS. In that case, we probably don't make a bowl in 2011, but we probably DO in 2009 and 2013 (not sure the ACTUAL SOS of the years, but 2009 and 2013 seemed harder compared to 2011).
They beat Michigan state on a fluke so that balances out byuQuote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
Sure it can. I'm not defending him per se. Just put the facts out there and judge how you will. This sort of debate is endless, because for every point you make for him, someone else can make against him. Rinse, repeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Sorry to break it to you, but we will never be a national power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I agree on SMU, they are in conference realignment hell. That's the difference between them and Nebraska/Miami.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVDawg
I take 1995 Nebraska over 2001 Miami any day of the week. They simply did not play a close game. I could care less about draft picks, that has nothing to do with any of it. I don't care how good they were on paper, I care about how they played.
^^ Yep. Unless we get incredibly lucky (like land Cam Newton, which propels us a tad bit higher), what we're doing right now is about our ceiling. It's never absolute in sports, but pretty close. Consistent winning seasons, plus an 'up' year every 5 or so years - yep that's us. Same for Ole Miss, though they may have a slightly higher ceiling right now because they actually have a good coach that will stay there as long as they will have him, and is passionate about his school, which is a rarity. That's why I wasn't happy when they hired Freeze, when most everybody else thought it was an average hire.Quote:
Originally Posted by DudyDawg
Even when The U played at the old Orange Bowl many of their games were in front of small crowds. Stadium isn't the issue.
Location too, bruhQuote:
Originally Posted by Blackout
You mean like being #1?Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
My Miami grads in the family disagree with you. They all think it is THE main problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackout
A smoke and mirrors #1. I thought Alabama, Ole Miss, and GT made that clear. It means as much as Auburn being a preseason favorite this past year. It means nothing, in other words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Yeah, we have got that far a lot under many different coaches. You are right, no big deal. *****Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
Yeah, a meaningless midseason ranking should take precedence on coaching decision making. That makes perfect sense.** who cares about you're body of work, what did idiots rank you after playing teams early that those same idiots overrated? THAT'S what matters. **Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Actually- we did. Jackie was 8-0 in 99 just like Mullen in 2014 and lost 2/3 to end the season. Only difference is the meaningless ratings in midseason had us at 8 or soQuote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
And that was mainly because of politics as much as anything. I'll never forget Jackie being interviewed by Spencer Tillman and Tillman said something to Jackie about us "not playing anyone"- and Jackie goes- "well, you should know about that since Oklahoma didn't play anyone when you were there either". The other two football hosts started laughing at a shocked Tillman. It was awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Anyway- Jackie raised our ceiling when he was the coach because he beat some really good Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Tennessee teams during his tenure. That tells me that a good coach can do the same here at MSU- and I don't know why some of our fans want to be stuck in 1986 and not believe it. We need a coach that wins all of the games he is "supposed to" like Dan- but at the same time pulls off a major win every other year or so like Jackie. Based on our program history (Jackie and Dan) our resources and the current state of the SEC, I don't see why those expectations are unreasonable. Heck- even Croom managed to beat some decent teams time to time and he practically insisted that we play with one arm and a leg tied behind our back.
It is actually remarkable to me that in 7 years we've not been able to pull one such upset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Ah, so we need a combination of the best of King Jackie, and the best of Dan Mullen. Snap your fingers, and it shall be done!Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Name ONE freaking good team that Croom beat. I'll be waiting.
Improving the program is one thing- going 2-16 vs Bama, LSU, and A&M is anotherQuote:
Originally Posted by bluelightstar
Why include aTm, but not Arkansas, auburn, and om? Seems all those programs are about evenQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
That, of course, is a rhetorical question because you know as well as I that there is an agenda being driven here....Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Because those have been the top 3 teams in the West the last 4 years. Anyway you slice it- Mullen has the worst record in the West other than Bert. And even Bert finished ahead of him this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Mullen has lost 3 of 4 vs Ole Missus
Mullen is 3-4 vs Auburn
Why does it bother you that I show Mullen's record against those 3 teams? There is literally no way to dress up his SEC West record
Auburn 2007. 9-4 and won the Peach Bowl. BITCH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
I agree with you about that- or at least that you would think it would occur more often because honestly I would consider beating Ole Miss in 2009 to be in the "good team" category- with the caveat that we now know in hindsight that they were on the decline but no one realized it until they lost to Jacksonville State the next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluelightstar
We've got MSU fans trying to favorably compare CROOM's tenure to Mullen's...
Bowl-eligible teams Croom beat:
2004 Florida: 7-5
2006 Alabama: 6-7
2007 Auburn: 9-4 and #15
2007 Kentucky: 8-5
2007 Alabama: 7-6
2007 UCF: 10-4
2008 Vanderbilt: 7-6
Bowl-eligible teams Mullen beat:
2009 Middle Tennessee: 10-3
2009 Kentucky: 7-6
2009 Ole Miss: 9-4 and #20
2010 Georgia: 6-7
2010 Florida: 8-5
2010 Michigan: 7-6
2011 Louisiana Tech: 8-5
2011 Wake Forest: 6-7
2012 Middle Tennessee: 8-4
2013 Troy: 6-6
2013 Bowling Green: 10-4
2013 Ole Miss: 8-5
2013 Rice: 10-4
2014 UAB: 6-6
2014 South Alabama: 6-7
2014 LSU: 8-5
2014 Texas A&M: 8-5
2014 Auburn: 8-5 and #22
2014 Arkansas: 7-6
2015 Southern Miss: 9-5
2015 Auburn: 6-6 (still 1 to play)
2015 Louisiana Tech: 9-4
2015 Arkansas 7-5 (still 1 to play)
Pretty interesting, Dan's best win looks to be the bears in 2009 or AU in 2014.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
The really interesting detail to me was the 2011-2013 run. Pretty underwhelming.
One thing Mullen is great at is taking advantage of a train wreck program. If you are down. He steps on your throat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
2010 & 2011 - bears were awful
2012 & 2015 - AU were awful
2012 - Upig, john l smith year
2010-2015 - UK, just bad.
Mullen handled his business against these teams.
SEC wins the last 4 years Bama - 20, LSU - 14, Miss - 13, A & M - 12, State - 10, Auburn - 8, Ark - 6. That's each team's West record the last 4 years. Also been better than Auburn as well as Ark. Clearly Bama has been the class of the West as we know. A & M, LSU, UNM, and Us have each finished second in the west once the last 4 years. It's been pretty close back and forth between who finishes 2nd-5th the last 4 years.
For the record- I am NOT saying that Croom is better than Dan in any way, shape, or form. Just saying that if a coach as bad as Croom can win some big games from time to time- then pretty much any coach we hire should do the same- for the people that think that Dan is the absolute best that we can possibly do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking