You realize this was done on purpose right? Gray wanted the money to keep coming- and that wasnt happening under RayQuote:
Originally Posted by FreeBoosie
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You realize this was done on purpose right? Gray wanted the money to keep coming- and that wasnt happening under RayQuote:
Originally Posted by FreeBoosie
Here it isQuote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
feel free to quote me if you like- I gave you 3 areas where Ray is head and shoulders above Stands. Only the Villiage Idiot would argue those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demdawgs
We'll see other areas to judge much more clearly this winter
Wayne Brady makes Bryant Gumble look like Malcom X.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBoosie
This is probably the worst post I have read on this board since it was created...
Stansbury is THE ONLY REASON we are where we are as a basketball program right now. If you want to change the culture of a lazy, heartless, unmotivated basketball program, you sure as hell don't do that by hiring his assistant. As for Kenny Payne... We don't really have to go back over this do we...
Our freshman guard who has never played point in his life should average 15-20 pts/game???
Our other freshman guard who had to play about 37 minutes a game didnt finish strong enough at the rim???
We had a deep front court???
WTF are you talking about!?!?
Who cares what kind of suits he wears? He has instilled discipline into a program that had become the laughing stock of college basketball under stansburys watch. Maybe the reason we hired him was because no other sensible coach wanted to take over the dumpster fire that stansbury left... Did you ever think of that?
Les Miles called this a damn strong 1st postQuote:
Originally Posted by CapitolCityDawg
You could have saved everyone alot of reading and just boiled your post down to the three sentences above. When it comes down to it, you're just being a baby about things that have nothing to do with Ray's perfomance or potential. Your complaints are based on fashion, twitter, and your own failure to understand analogies.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBoosie
I was not quoting you. A poster said he was a better coach than Stans and he did not break it down to strengths and weaknesses he just said overall he was better. I begged, pleaded, for someone to tell me he was kidding and you responded that twice that he wasn't. By doing that you agreed he was a better coach and to that I say lolzQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Just curious, who are you arguing with?Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitolCityDawg
It's hard to respond to your post with a dignified response, but I will try. For starters, longtime reader, first time poster, welcome. Glad to have you out of the shadows. Did Stands give negative shits by the end. Definitely. Was it time to go? Yes. The choices. Dont act like this was a program fresh off the death penalty. It was still known enough to hire someone better than Rick Ray. Joe Dooley, the long time assistant at Kansas, was VERY VERY interested in the job. He made this known, but did Scott "White-Out" Stricklin contact him? No. Now he's the head coach at FGCU, who coincidentally, is coming to Starkville fresh off of a Sweet 16 birth. Since we were obviously reaching for anybody with a smart phone, why not give Wayne Brent a try? He is very well known around the Jackson basketball scene, has coached and trained many great players, and would have given us a direct pipeline to whoever we wanted out of that area. But no, lets get the guy who built a fence around Montgomery, Alabama. Did I ever say Craig Sword would play point guard, No. He average 10.5 points last year, so I dont think with Rick Ray's rigorous work outs a 5 point bump is too much to ask. What does the amount of minutes Fred Thomas (Who actually averaged 28 minutes, nice try though), have to do with his ability to drive to the lane? Okay though. I know we have a deep front court, which is why I want them to be able to perform well against Johnny O'Bryant, Jarnell Stokes, Patric Young, and the dream team Kentucky has compiled. The reason I went off about his personal appearance is because its embarrassing he cant find a good median between his Starter brand warm ups and his Geralds House of Fashion olive colored suit. Whether you like it or not, a well dressed coach is a well respected coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitolCityDawg
That was not a strong first post. That was a first post with wrong stats, childish outbursts, and a total troll demeanor. I think your better suited to keep reading bud.
HaymakerQuote:
Originally Posted by FreeBoosie
What sport is this again?
The one where a 45 point loss to Vanderbilt is swept under the rug because of the "hustle points"Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
I'd like to get this thread back on track, because I think it is an interesting discussion.
My serious questions to FreeBoosie, DemDawgs, and Raytoraid is this: What happened ON THE COURT last year that makes you think Rick Ray isn't capable of being our coach? If Rick Ray didn't meet your expectations.... what were those expectations? Did he meet ANY of the expectations you have for an MSU coach?
Way to double down on the full retard. Epic FAIL.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBoosie
I don't think the guy that refuses to acknowledge the job that Ray has done thus far and whose seemingly biggest complaint is that his suits aren't sharp enough, is in any position to call somebody out for "childish posts and troll demeanor"... Especially when the general consensus is that most here don't agree with your logic.
Sorry I don't have time to look up official stats to support my argument, but the point I was trying to convey is that if you didn't see a more driven and motivated team (with far inferior talent) last season, then you were too busy whining about a washed up coach whose only play was "motion" to actually support our program...
Ray has done nothing to make me (or anyone else for that matter) not support our new style of play, so why would you refuse to give him your support? I'm sure you can compile a long list of reasons why you don't like him but I'll just chalk it up to mostly ignorance.
And I'm not your "bud"
We certainly had more coaching going on with our team last season than we had in a long time- that's for sure
I'm not kidding at all. And one, just ONE, yr of seeing how different our basketball program is now versus the Stains (I'm re instituting Stains, tough shit for some) program has reaffirmed that our coach is better. Now. Stains was a good recruiter as an assistant but a shitty head coach. No need in listing all the reasons why you may think Stains was great because I have as many if not more reasons why he sucked ass so the debate is probably useless. I'm sure he was a nice guy and its nothing personal but he was shitty as a coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDawg
Show it to me... If you can...Quote:
Originally Posted by Demdawgs
I didn't realize that "I seen it dawg" and "coach34" were the same person?**Quote:
Originally Posted by Raytoraid83
this will add another page to this threadQuote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
Thank you for getting this back on track and away from the childish bitching. Here's the things for me and the timeline of Rick Ray. First off the hiring, I blame Stricklin for hiring an unknown assistant (at a school where our previous coach TURNED DOWN the head coaching job) he put Ray in a no win situation. Second off the way the Hood situation was handled, you can argue he was gone no matter what but hey that's another discussion, ill give him a pass on recruiting that year since he didn't have time to adjust but I think at a program like Mississippi State you have to take chances on players with a little baggage but with upside as playmakers. Those are the main issues. Now during the season we had our ups and downs due to injuries and suspensions and we can't really judge him as a coach yet. Like we established, next year will give us more information into that. Just take a seat back and type into YouTube 2004 mississippi state basketball team and reminisce on the good things stansbury did for our program. People remember Stansbury too much from his last couple of seasons and forget that stansbury had our basketball program as the most consistent winner of the big 3 sports, only Kentucky and Florida had more wins in 10 seasons, that's just facts. Lets sit back let Ray have next season to improve and see where we stand after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiterallyPolice
Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
You saying right now Ray is a better coach than Stansbury is idiotic. Rick Ray has not proven anything yet. Will he? Who knows, we won't be able to judge that for another 2 years. Croom seemed to have discipline and things going in the right direction early on, he didn't exactly pan out. So will Rick Ray be a successful coach, we simply do not know after only one season that saw 10 wins. I am on the fence with the man, I haven't decided how I feel about him yet as I have stated in a previous thread. But to say Rick Ray right now is better than Stansbury was in his prime is absolutely stupid.
Agreed... Stansbury had some great years but it was time to move on. I think Ray will bring a much needed youthful energy to our program and we can once again return to being one of the best in the league. We owe him our supportQuote:
Originally Posted by Raytoraid83
Maybe Rick Ray is just my scape goat for my arch nemesis Scott Stricklin
Something we CAN agree on...Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBoosie
When the team was playing well and having fun, it was entertaining to watch. Maybe I will be wrong he is the answer. But, at the end of the day Texas hit it right with comparing him to Croom. He's a transition guy, never had a chance from day one.
If Ray doesn't succeed, it's because WE as fans/alumni/boosters didn't fully support him. And I don't understand that. Was he the big name that everyone wanted? No. But that doesn't mean he can't be successful. Based on what I have seen, I think he will win at least as well as Stansbury did. You can't judge him on last year's team- and I don't think Stansbury would have done any better.
This exact same thing happened to Cohen- on a bigger scale in my opinion- and things worked out OK.
The Stansbury people need to understand that he did well overall, but his time is now over. And in the sports world it is extremely rare that a coach goes out on top. It's just the nature of the beast. Heck, my uncle was fired at least 2-3 times as a minor league baseball coach- usually because the orgaization changed front officies or ownership- and he simply found another coaching job with someone else. So, I know how that industry works.
Croom wasn't a "transition guy". He was a bad coach. I guarantee you that when LT hired him, he was hoping that he would be here for 20 years. It just didn't work out because he was stubborn and lacked head coaching experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBoosie
first of all- to your Croom comment- No, Croom never seemed to have things going in the right direction early on. The Maine loss...the terrible offense, the worst game I've ever watched when we played Tulane in Shreveport....It was evident to me Croom was never going to be a good SEC coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDawg
Now then to Ray vs Stands- I can't speak for I Seen It- but after knowing him for 25 years I have a good idea what he is talking about. You most certainly can say Ray is a better coach than Stands. But you have to actually pay attention to see it. You cant just compare 14 years vs 1 roster depleted season. How ddo you compare then?
You compare the way their teams set screens? Advantage Ray
You compare the way their teams blocked out? Advantage Ray
You compare the way their teams ran an offense? Advantage Ray
You compare the way their teams knew their assignments? Advantage Ray
You compare their ability to change defenses? Advantage Ray
You compare their ability to execute different inbounds plays? Advantage Ray
If you get past your allegiances, talent level, wins/losses and just simply watched the things that a coach can control- Ray's bunch looked much more well-coached than just about any Stands ever had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raytoraid83
Stans was a good recruiter and evaluator of talent, but he was a horrible floor coach.
He could not win the big game outside of the SEC. Stans problem with the Sweet 16 was that he could not scout two teams on two days notice and make a game-plan because he could not institute a half court offense.
Stans found the 4 guard gimmick and decided to live and die by the 3 pointer, instead of actually instituting a half court offense.
The “Motion” offense was just an excuse for Stans to cover up his lack of having a half court offense.
If we didn't score in offensive transition we looked just like a church-league team standing around and jacking three's.
He always let the other team dictate the tempo of the game. Why?
Stans lost control of the team when he let J-Money do whatever he wanted without consequences, it just got worse every year after J-Money came to campus. Not sure what he had on Stans, but it was more than enough. This was the start of his downfall and the RSS Saga was just the icing on the cake.. The inmates were running the asylum, not coach Stans..
Does anyone actually think we would have been a better team last year had Stans stayed? Did you really want to see more of Renardo and the druggie squad half-assing their way through another long year, probably spreading the laziness onto Ware, Sword, Thomas, etc.? I'll take 10-22 and a bright future over 13-19 and more of the same any day...
I wasnt overly happy with the Rick Ray choice myself. I severely underestimated the stench of our program that was out there though in the coaching community...Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBoosie
Ray deserves 4 years to see what he can do- and so far I'm on board. It was certainly better than expected to this point
Changed culture of program
Installed work ethic
Team plays its ass off
No DRAMA
Not bad for a first year...but now it's time to see some wins...team is still extremely young, but should get to 17-18 wins
When we were "playing well" we had good players that underachieved bc our coach had a low ceiling for discipline, heart, hard work, and floor coaching. Recruiting great- coaching shit.
At no time in his tenure did he outcoach another, did our team outwork another, nor did we have talent really develop and get better but we damn sure had head scratching losses, physical weakness, discipline issues, and a shitpile of "wth just happened".
When we won it was because he got some good players together and when he did he always ****ed it up in the end. I don't give a shit about his record versus Ole Miss, whose head coach was always worse than ours, or his 293 wins that were gained against our perennially pussified OOC schedule because he never beat anyone he had to outcoach or wait for it....got to the Sweet 16. With all his greatness and recruiting prowess he could never muster enough coaching acumen to get the talent we had to win big games.
We had an opportunity while he was in his "prime" to truly compete for a national title because the landscape of college basketball allowed it. He recruited the talent to do it. He never made them work or get any better and when he had to really coach he ALWAYS failed. To me that's a shitty coach no matter how many times he beats the Belhavens of the world.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE hire Stands Auburn.. please...Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBoosie
For the 441st time, I am on the fence with Ray. I don't consider myself to have allegiances to Stansbury or Ray.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
And if we are really gonna play this game :
You compare their ability to win over 10 games? Advantage Stansbury
See? That is stupid to do. Why? Because he has coached for one ****ing year. He could be the greatest hire we ever made, or he could end up being a complete clown. Who knows. This is why in my opinion, it is extremely premature to say that Ray is a better basketball coach than someone who won 2 SEC titles.
Ok texas dawg are you a ****ing idiot. He compared things that actually occur during games that you can see. Can you dispute those things?? If so I'd like to hear how because its painfully evident that our intramural team we fielded out of the Stains dumpster fire that Ray had to coach was infinitely better coached than the talent that was coached by the intramural coach we had.
Ray may be the better coach, but if he can't get the players here like Stansbury did...then we will never reach "17-18" games in a year
Some Stans fans just won't give up their allegiance to him. They are too blind to see all of his faults.
It makes we wonder if they ever watch other College basketball teams play besides MSU.
We have the 13th ranked recruiting class right now. I know it's early, but a top 25 class isn't a stretch for this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by FelkerFanatic53