Our pitching held the Pac-12 champions to 1 run. And we were already up 1-0 when Renfroe hit the hr.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
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Our pitching held the Pac-12 champions to 1 run. And we were already up 1-0 when Renfroe hit the hr.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
I like lovelady too. I think it was a huge mistake to bench him. Collins just isn't good enough defensively imo. Collins' bat is a must thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by engie
We were a lot better defensively up the middle in '13 which is very important if you want to win with pitching. Adam ripping the ball didn't hurt eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Sure. I mentioned pitching and defense in the same sentence earlier in this thread. But on any given day a pitcher who is outstanding on that day can control the game for a victory more than any other player. And if he is dominate even weak offenses and defenses can look good.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
We also were 3 feet from losing. If the Oregon state guy hit it 10 feet towards RF we lose that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
If a frog had wings..........
With the new ball being used today that would have been a HR hit where it was. We were just very fortunate to get where we did in 2013 with only one good starter. Even after making the CWS championship round with no losses in the sub-bracket we ended up having to start Pollo in championship game #1. And no offense to Pollo because he gave all he had and did some good things for us, but that is NOT the kind of talent in a pitcher you want starting out a national championship series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
And if.....the fact is our PITCHING and defense held them. A pitch in a little worse location maybe it does go out but it didn't and in two games we held them to 5 total runs. The "if" game doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
I don't understand why everyone seems to assume you can't have both great pitching and hitting.
Hopefully Humphries comes back ready to tear the cover off and Robson figures out when to drag bunt and when to actually swing.
It is like when people say in football Defense wins championships. It does as long as your offense can at least be competent. Our problem last year was the offense was built to hit singles and bunt but we then didn't steal bases. We put the fastest player possibly in the country behind the slowest. Our offense was a contradiction of styles. We had a bunch of singles hitters but didn't try to be aggressive on the base path unless it was waving someone home when he is out by a mile.
Last year was probably the most frustrating offense to watch. We would regularly have someone in the zone and then ask them to bunt 2 straight trips. It was like no one was ever allowed to find a rhythm.
I would say our clutch hitting was as much to do with our run as pitching. Hell Demarcus Henderson had more clutch hits that year than probably our entire team last year.
Who said you can't or don't want to? Nobody is saying that. But of the two you can win more with less offense than less pitching the majority of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
You are not wrong here. But no team makes a run without clutch or timely hitting. That's why some are saying we aren't as far away as others think. With top notch pitching and timely hitting anyone can do well in the postseason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Folks keep wanting to gloss over what Cohen and his team accomplished in '13 by using a myriad of excuses...we got lucky, the balls benifitted us, etc...
The bottom line is that any team that makes a deep run can go back and look to where they caught a few breaks. People with an agenda look for any way possible to discredit the fact that in '13, with some of cohen's quirky decision making, we made it farther than we ever had under anyone else.
And Rea would have hit a grand slam that was a flyout earlier in that game...Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
Amen. I want to win as many games 10-1 as possible. Great hitting and shit pitching, you lose too many games 11-10. Great pitching and shit hitting, you lose too many games 2-1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
I haven't watched every CWS game this year, and I haven't watched every inning of the games I have turned on, BUT it sure seems like I see a HR every few innings I've watched. I know there's been 2 1-0 games, but either I've kicked into seeing the only HRs of the CWS or the balls are flying out of the park more these days. Florida had a guy hit a pop fly opposite field HR against Miami. Off the bat it looked like it'd be an easy out.
Either way, the talk that you can't hit HRs at the CWS is proving to be false this year IMO.
Who is advocating not having both in this thread? Of course you would love to have both. That has not been the debate. Period. The fact is however it is still easier and you have a better chance at winning, even the championship, with great pitching and avg hitting than the other way around. You want both but if want a better chance, build on pitching.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
Home runs have been up across the board the whole year. By as much as 40% at one point this season. The ball change has been discussed ad nauseam.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
I agree. Our 2013 run is probably the only time you will see a pitching staff made up like that make Omaha. Butch has to develop some Stratton/Graveman pitchers. We have to get some pop in the lineup. Robson doesn't need to hit between 2-8. If I see him hitting behind Gordon hitting 4th I will lose my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Cohen needs to quit trying to outsmart everyone and just play baseball.
Smitty likes to try to change things when he has been proven wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
That staff was #15 nationally in ERA. It was #17 nationally in WHIP. It was #10 nationally in K/9.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
A staff doesn't have to be traditional to be elite...
It should be easier to find 2 starters and a closer like you said earlier. That 2013 was like 6 people cobbled together. It was a pretty rare thing to have that many people pitch that well. Other than our entire pitching staff shitting the bed, last year's offense had almost no one step up in crunch time. It blew my mind how bad we were.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
If we had a runner on 2nd and 3rd down 1 in the 9th with no outs, we would promptly strike out, pop up, and then hit a deep fly. It did not matter who was at the plate. We typically scored runs ok but we always seemed to never score when we needed it. It reminded me of the football team in 2001. If it could randomly go wrong it would.
#TheMeddler gonna #MeddleQuote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Man, what a sick defensive play there by Bregman.
Just blows my mind that everyone got the memo except us. We are still playing dead ball era baseball, while everyone else moved right into the steroid era. Why didn't we see it coming? Why did we swing so far away from a somewhat traditionally constructed team, that a change to the ball completely destroyed the team we were building? Why did our coaches view extra base hits and HRs as something not worthwhile pursuing on the recruiting trail and in player development?Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
You actually believe that, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
First of all this is hardly the steroid era. We "didn't see it coming" because they basically decided to change in the offseason- giving us no opportunity to adjust. For now.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
Cohen built us for the era at the time and it resulted in us getting to the NC round, a regional host appearance, and two SR's. It's pretty incredible to me that any MSU fan with a brain would criticize our coach for adjusting to the era and then call him out for not adjusting when the rug was basically pulled out from under us.
I also find it hilarious that any fan really believes that Cohen doesn't want players that hit extra base hits. That's stupid on so many levels.
Same posting style from a poster who has admitted to using multiple user names and is a known troll, baseball ignorance in the same areas of the game, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
Could be a coincidence- but for the sake of humanity I hope not. A simple IP address check can confirm my suspicions.
It's like some fans choose to ignore the offense Cohen coached at Florida and at Kentucky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
He also believes that Ross Mitchell alone prevented us from going to a Regional. What a clown.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
Uh I'm pretty sure his sample size here is quite sufficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB21
His point is Cohen can, has in the past, and been very very good at coaching a totally different type of offense that we have had in recent years. That sample size is even bigger but a lot assume that this is the only offense he knows. BThis is not a debate on our recent struggles or why or the offensive philosphy. Whether he adjusts back....we will see. The recruits suggest a change which make no mistake, as I said before I am in favor of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Just hold 7th, 8th, 9th inning leads -- and this team wins 10 more games. They were both problems -- and our clutch hitting both this year and last year pissed me off for sure -- but our disconnect I believe is what we think was the bigger problem. For me, it was pitching, and it wasn't close. When MSU scores 5 runs, we should almost never lose. This year, we were 17-11 in those games we scored 5+ in -- 11-10 without considering the early season total destruction of inferior opponents. An average Ole Miss pitching staff was 23-3 in the same situation against a much, much tougher schedule. Florida was 41-3 in the same situation. Lsu 42-3. Just win the ones we actually did hit and score fairly well in -- at an average level -- and we were back in the postseason this year as a 2-seed somewhere. Add just a shred of clutch hitting -- and we aren't far from hosting this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
The simple reality is, he's got to get it done next year either way. This used up his get out of jail free card. One thing I found interesting upon review -- we were 3-17 in night games and 3-14 in away games. We need to practice under the lights more(a baseball "disconnect" I've never reconciled -- playing at night is far different than day games) -- and we need to hold these guys' feet to the fire in the offseason to work out the vaginitis.
I think Cohen went too far trying to take advantage of the dead ball that it screwed him when he had to change. It would be like if Football declared the triple option illegal. GT would suck next year. Cohen's offense was based on scratching out a few runs a game and letting our pitching and defense win. Just score enough that it puts pressure on the other team. Very similar to the mindset Jackie Sherrill had in football. The problem hits like in 2003 when the defense is DOA so now there is no way the offense can score enough to keep up. I think with the amount of bunting we did this year really shows how much faith Cohen had in this team to score runs. It looked like he had almost no faith that we would put up more than a couple of runs at most in an inning. It may have affected the team's mindset. At the end of games when we needed a hit to drive in a tying or winning run, all of our hitters were looking to draw a walk. I can't remember what game but Gavin Collins missed a walk off homer by about 4 feet to the left. It was one of the few times I saw a hitter look to impose his will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Cohen seems he to went too laid back and the team lost its intensity. We seem more interested in doing shit in the dugout than stretching a double into a triple.
we missed Holder and testicles. We have those two things, we definitely win 10 more and maybe even win a few games in the SEC tourney.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Cohen hates doubles.***
This is absolutely it. Put the players in a pressure cooker during off season and pre season and it will make a difference come nut cuttin time. Funny thing is, the folks that thought Cohen was too mean when he did this are the same ones bitching about him now.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Yeah our best season corresponded with renfro being one of the most productive power hitters in college baseball, rea having his best season at MSU with power, and multiple guys with gap power. Why would we go even further away from those types of guys because of the bat/ball when our best success was still having at least a few guys hitting with power? whether the problem is recruiting or development, it's on the coaches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
There's no baseball ignorance here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Link me to us "going further away from those types of guys" please. Renfroe didn't come to MSU as an elite power hitter. But was a guy with potential. We've got a bunch of those with power potential. Just need to have the lights come on for one or two of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
Since the first whispers of a potential ball change -- long before implementation -- here are our position player signees.
Humphreys - power
Rooker - power potential
Ingram - power potential
Collins - power
Swinarski - power potential
Walker - defensive walkon/filler
Vickerson - singles guy
Heck - singles guy/defensive signee
Vallot - power. went mlb
Burdick - power. went mlb
Gordon - power potential
Holland - gap guy(struggled this year)
Reynolds - gap guy(began to show late this year)
Smith - gap guy
Gridley - singles guy that can mature into a gap guy
Lovelady - defensive guy
Stafford - not here long enough to know
Spruill - defensive filler
Pickett - power. went mlb
Riley - power. went mlb
Lowe - power
Alexander - projects as a gap guy
Stovall - gap guy with power potential
Mangum - CBrown clone
Blaylock - no clue
Marrero - gap guy
Poole - defensive/probably a singles guy
We've had 2 classes of bad luck in the draft with our power potential guys. Doesn't mean that we aren't actively trying to get them.
Yep. Which is why I dont buy the "built team for the dead ball". Whether the ball is dead or spun tight as dicks hat ban, you recruit guys that can hit. We missed on the recruiting. Plain and simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Now to be completely fair, while it was a good offense in 2013 it was not our best. 2009 we slashed .298/.468/.398 as a team, 2010 .296/.474/.398, and 2013 it was .293/.385/.382. His first two years, as horrible as they were, offensively was better than 2013. Now again in the essence of being fair the 2013 totals while lower ranked us higher in comparison to other teams. But the 2.78 era our staff posted had a bigger influence. The year before was a 2.58 but the offense was way off but we still won 40 games with great pitching and a .251 hitting team. Last year with a 3.06 we win 39 games. Our three best era years are the three best seasons for wins under Cohen.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs