My God- watching the 2007 Egg Bowl is sickening

As much as I hate Croom, that 2007 egg bowl still is my favorite and gave me my favorite bulldog play by my favorite bulldog player of all time.

There are many things we Mississippi State fans can argue about but I am shocked that we are arguing whether or not Sylvester Croom was a good head coach.
As I said before, if he was such a good head coach how come the only jobs he's had since our job is as an NFL position coach?
He was not a good head coach and I think deep down inside he felt that the Mississippi State job was beneath him.

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Originally Posted by 5 Star

All insignificant statistics aside, who would win the game?

This is an easy pick.

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So Win-Loss records and number of points scored are insignificant statistics?

I honestly think its 50/50. I think they'd probably split 10 games against each other. Neither team was very good, but they were comparable in terms of overall results against similar competition with maybe a slight edge to the 2007 team. Thats all I was saying. You can't say that just because we had a better coach and were running a better offensive system in 2011 that the team was better as a whole.

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Originally Posted by BulldogBear

He lost me completely and instantly when he implied (2008) that the reason we weren't winning was we were getting enough defensive scores. Blamed. The. Defense. ...instead of his inept offense. He was in way over his head as a HC.

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Crooms had many wtf moments- and this is one that still amazes me that this was actually said. Somebody being dumb enough to make that statement yet got paid over a million dollars just pisses me off.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

This is really the root of the Croom hate. He wasn't as bad a coach as people say he was, but the people in the inner circle didn't like him. He was right to say on the 30 for 30 that he got no support because he didn't. Look at the facts: After leading us to our only winning season of the decade he was basically gone as a head coach for losing in an upset in the first game of the following season. That was shocking. Also, look at people's attitude toward his winning season, that it was all luck. I've never seen so many Bulldog fans pull against the Bulldogs.
Mullen seems to be working out. He's certainly got the schmooze factor mastered, unlike Croom. This next season we have a huge challenge ahead of us. We'll see how the fans react to whatever disappointments we encounter next season.
My problem is that fans put the coach at the pinnacle of the program even though the coach in always a temporary Bulldog. I think we've suffered a lot from inertia within the institution over the years.

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If yall go to the political board, you'll better understand after reading some of his stuff over there

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Originally Posted by BulldogBear

He wanted to win the 1970's Alabama way and win doing basic stuff that works for schools like 1980's Nebreaka and 1970's Alabama because they usually have the hosses and the defenses were slower.

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FIFY

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

This is really the root of the Croom hate. He wasn't as bad a coach as people say he was,...

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No he was worse. He is a good man, and had enough charisma to assemble a very good staff in the beginning, and all of the good coaches jumped ship. That should have been a clue to us. The thing about Sly is he is like Jack Lemmon's character in Glengarry Glen Ross. He thought he had it figured out. He's a nice guy, he put in the work. He deserved to have the time to get the job done. But that's not coaching. Coaching is winning.

Watch this and replace Closing with winning. This is what Greg Byrne should have played Croom as he fired him.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4PE2h...ature=youtu.be

We got rid of Shelley Levine and got Ricky Roma.

Bryne: "Put. that coffee. down. Coffee is for winners only."

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

So Win-Loss records and number of points scored are insignificant statistics?

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In my opinion, they do. Obviously they factor in on some scale, but they are not to be the sole judgment criteria, especially when none of the teams are the same. 2007 was no doubt the better season, I just think 2011 was the better team.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

I honestly think its 50/50. I think they'd probably split 10 games against each other. Neither team was very good, but they were comparable in terms of overall results against similar competition with maybe a slight edge to the 2007 team. Thats all I was saying. You can't say that just because we had a better coach and were running a better offensive system in 2011 that the team was better as a whole.

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We can disagree, it's all good. I am judging by the coach, the talent, the offense, the actual teams we played, and who I think would win on a neutral field.

Top 2007 opponents: #1 LSU (0-45), #6 West Virginia (13-38), #12 Tennessee (21-33), #15 Auburn (19-14)
Top 2011 opponents: #1 Alabama (7-24), #2 LSU (6-19), #5 Arkansas (17-44), #9 South Carolina (12-14)

That is 4 teams in the final Top Ten in 2011, plus another SEC heavyweight in Georgia. I also look at how we played them, when we played them, and the schedule factor. That 2011 schedule was just brutal in the way it broke. We played more average SEC teams in 2007, thus the better record. We were using all our 'up' games in 2011 against elite teams we probably weren't going to beat anyway, thus were flat against Georgia, Louisiana Tech and other somewhat average teams (Georgia was hardly average, they won the East). That is the intangible SEC grind that no talking head or sidewalk football fan ever really understands. Schedule is HUGE.

Our defense was good in 2007, no doubt about that. I am not sure you can chalk all those flukes up to luck, but when it happens vs. Auburn, UAB, Alabama AND Ole Miss.....you are just having a lucky year. We beat Gardner-Webb 31-15. We caught Kentucky in a let-down week. We caught Alabama after LSU. Essentially, we won small and lost big.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

He wasn't as bad a coach as people say he was.....

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Oh yes he was. He was truly awful. I'm sure he is a solid guy and he is a good assistant coach, but he was absolutely horrid as a head coach.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

He's certainly got the schmooze factor mastered, unlike Croom.

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What? Croom was 10 times more likable that Mullen's yankee, abrasive ass. Mullen has gotten better, but he is still no politician.

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Originally Posted by BulldogBear

Don't forget burning Ralph's redshirt in a 45-0 game last game of season.

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Relf redshirted in 2007.

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Originally Posted by LC Dawg

There are many things we Mississippi State fans can argue about but I am shocked that we are arguing whether or not Sylvester Croom was a good head coach.
As I said before, if he was such a good head coach how come the only jobs he's had since our job is as an NFL position coach?
He was not a good head coach and I think deep down inside he felt that the Mississippi State job was beneath him.

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Exactly, I like Croom the person but Croom the college HC was clueless.

Croom fell asleep on a recruit's couch. He was ****ing awful

I was thinking more.

Byrne: First place is a trophy. Second place is a set of steak knives. Third place is your fired.

Byrne: "Get. Out. Of that golf cart. Golf carts are for winners only."

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Originally Posted by 5 Star

Relf redshirted in 2007.

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He is thinking of the secret weapon. A. Clark

The first time I saw the Geico ad with Flo where she consoles the little loser in an old 70's type reel to reel film and offers to buy him ice cream and he says "with sprinkles?" I immediately thought of Crooms. Wish I knew how to post a pic or video of it. I've always felt that there is an MSU grad at work behind the scenes in that ad development.

Croom was simply tired. And stubborn.

He stuck by McCorvey like the guy had incriminating photos. He took a great RB, Jerious Norwood, and wore him down. He expected his offensive line to knock 7 guys off the ball with pure will and strength.

No way Croom had the drive and energy to put in the hours it takes to build a winner in Starkville. No freaking' way. You could give him 10 year and he might get 2 seven win seasons. That offense was simply pitiful.

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Originally Posted by scottycameron

The first time I saw the Geico ad with Flo where she consoles the little loser in an old 70's type reel to reel film and offers to buy him ice cream and he says "with sprinkles?" I immediately thought of Crooms. Wish I knew how to post a pic or video of it. I've always felt that there is an MSU grad at work behind the scenes in that ad development.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAw2TXsgBbY
This one?

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Croom never had an offense ranked better than 100. For five straight years we had to watch shitty offense. He lost to Maine. MAINE

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He lost me at Maine. Remember the Maine!

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Originally Posted by Billy Ray Valentine

He lost me at Maine. Remember the Maine!

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"Well, I didn't see that one coming". Croom after 45-0 Egg Bowl loss at Ole Miss when he had lost the team and supposedly didn't know it though making $1 mil to be a "Head Football Coach" in the SEC and don't even mention our Alabama Lite unis from Russell Athletic.

BTW, why can't we put the interlocking MSU back on our helmets? I've always liked that helmet design as in Coach 34's avatar. Does Nike have the copyright? I even heard tha Montana State has the rights to it. I also got tired of Croom blaming Jackie and throwing him under the bus when he had discipline issues on his own teams as many teams unfortunately have.

Nike owns it- but for the life of me cant understand why we dont just design another interlocking MSU

I dig our current logo.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Nike owns it- but for the life of me cant understand why we dont just design another interlocking MSU

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Same reason they refuse to put just MSU on the front of the jersey's instead of the hideous legal banner Mississippi State.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Nike owns it- but for the life of me cant understand why we dont just design another interlocking MSU

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key statement is "for the life of me I can't understand". Complete BS. Nike doesn't own it and could care less. Why would they? Are they making tons of $ off it, LOL. Quit buying that line. We could use it if we wanted to and for some reason (haha) we don't want to. Nothing pizzes me off more than this.
Do all you guys really believe Nike keeps us from using an interlocking MSU? Really?

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Originally Posted by scottycameron

key statement is "for the life of me I can't understand". Complete BS. Nike doesn't own it and could care less. Why would they? Are they making tons of $ off it, LOL. Quit buying that line. We could use it if we wanted to and for some reason (haha) we don't want to. Nothing pizzes me off more than this.
Do all you guys really believe Nike keeps us from using an interlocking MSU? Really?

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Yes...Nike owns that. It's their copyright/trademark. And the way that we and Nike left, was not the best of terms to leave.

FACT: Nike owns it. That doesn't mean we couldn't use it if we wanted to.

FACT: No school in MS has the word "Mississippi" in their brand.

FACT: Stricklin claims ownership of the state as part of our branding strategy.

Remember "This is our State"? That wasn't smack talk. It was branding.

FACT: Strick wants "Mississippi" written out on the front of our jerseys because no other school is branding themselves with our state.

Some of you folks just want to bitch about logos. Some of you just can't accept facts. Some of you have short memories or weren't paying attention when Strick explains all this stuff early in the Mullen era. It's not rocket science.

I have also thought that Ole Miss using the "M" and us using the "M" with the State banner across it has helped many in the nation continue to get the two schools mixed up. I guess I am getting fixed in my ways as I grow older, but the interlocking MSU was not as apt to be mixed up with their "M". I have never cared for the M State, it is no doubt here to stay.

U of M's insistence on calling themselves a slave's nickname for the wife of a plantation owner is a big reason there is national confusion between the two schools.

Could you imagine a national quiz like this: Which school is Ole Miss: a) Mississippi State University or b) The University Of Mississippi? You'd probably get a 50-50 split.

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Originally Posted by fader2103

I tell you I know most hate Croom as a coach but he is a great man and truly cared for his players. I will always support all our former coaches (aslong as they don't coach against us that is)

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Croom was an asshole and so are you.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Same reason they refuse to put just MSU on the front of the jersey's instead of the hideous legal banner Mississippi State.

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I love that "legal banner". That is my fav followed by the dog on M and the cowbell