Why do people think we are going to suck this year?

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

This is how I felt going into the NorthWestern game last year. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I can understand why other people can see 5-6 wins being our ceiling. The press always under estimates us and when they do it drastically is usually when we step up and punch people in the mouth. If we open 3-0, we'll set the world on fire. If we open 1-2, we're screwed and I'll be placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of the grasshopper.

The underlying politics to all of this is enough to make someone sick. There's still some people with heavy sway that don't want a Yankee running the show and Strick has been made well aware of that. He pissed a lot of people off with the basketball moves and knows he's going to have to do something to keep the $ happy now. In my opinion CDM is being set up for failure so we can go hire the golden child... who I love to death... but there's no excuse for sending this staff on mission impossible. Basically Dan is being told "be the best" because we can go hire a Mississippi guy who can win at least 6-7 games a year. Some people may think that's ok. However, I think we've been a coaching graveyard for decades and move like this would only reconstitute that legacy.

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If this is true--which I don't think it is--we deserve every shit kicking we get.

I think we will be a lot better this year personally. Why should State be afraid of a team whose pass d ranked in the triple digits last season and who has a brand new O line, won't name a starting QB, and won't name a starting TB? Have they "outrecruited" us, a purely subjective notion anyway? No. Shouldn't they be just as afraid of us? Do you see their fans quaking in their boots? No. Why in blue hell are ours? Get that slit between the thighs fixed and let's do this. I hope the team has more cajones than most of our fans......

don't take it as a legitimate attempt to set him up for failure so much as a "chit or get off the pot" approach.

Either way, it's true. It's just a matter of how influential some of those folks can/will be.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

don't take it as a legitimate attempt to set him up for failure so much as a "chit or get off the pot" approach.

Either way, it's true. It's just a matter of how influential some of those folks can/will be.

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I am sure you know more about than I do. No sarcasm intended. I am sure that you do. lol But I think Mullen has already shat. All he has done is win here.

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Originally Posted by Pollodawg

I am sure you know more about than I do. No sarcasm intended. I am sure that you do. lol But I think Mullen has already shat. All he has done is win here.

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I agree with this, the only people the could possibly be upset with what Mullen has done are people that don't know anything about building a winning football program in this conference. Without cheating, we are going to have to win 6-8 games a year for about 8-10 years in order to build a solid enough foundation of recruiting areas, facilities, perception, and confidence in order to take the next step.

If influential people aren't Ok with that, then I would just rather them take their money somewhere else. Firing Mullen or giving up on this regime, would have to one of the dumbest moves in our university's history and one that would set us back much further than we are now.

Who would want this job if we fired a guy that had taken us to more bowl, games in a short amount of time, than any coach we've ever had?

Now, if Mullen goes 4-8 or 3-9 this year, then I have the right to change my tune, however, with this roster, he would have to do a pretty shitty coaching job to accomplish that.

Shotgun, I don't think 6-6 would put anyone on the hot seat, but the chatter will start if we end up with a losing record. People will direct it at CDM, but IMO, it's not his fault. He's building this team for success and I agree that it's going to take years to build a legitimate contender for a west title. If it's a bad season this year, it's on Strick for finalizing our OOC schedule before he knew what our SEC East schedule was.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

Shotgun, I don't think 6-6 would put anyone on the hot seat, but the chatter will start if we end up with a losing record. People will direct it at CDM, but IMO, it's not his fault. He's building this team for success and I agree that it's going to take years to build a legitimate contender for a west title. If it's a bad season this year, it's on Strick for finalizing our OOC schedule before he knew what our SEC East schedule was.

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This pisses me off more than anything else that has been done, swapping South Alabama and UT at home for Oklahoma State (neutral site) and @SC is putting a ton of pressure on our team.

Luckily I think we come through against OSU and we get a pay day and a W. Am I the only one that can't wait to see what Dak's role in our offense will be? I still think it will be a lot more than the coaches are letting on.

OSU game = high risk, moderate reward.

Equivalent to a longshot bet on a crap table. You may get lucky and hit a couple. But in the long run, you'll lose your arse.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

2.2 million dollar payday
National TV exposure in the 2:30 time slot
Playing a team we have matched or even bettered in the recruiting rankings the last 4 years

What are you going to say when we win?
Wonder if Arizona thought it was bad idea to play them last year when they drubbed them 59-38 last year?

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And here I thought I was the only one who thinks we'll beat OSU. This is the B12 we're talking about, where they don't play defense. Frankly, I think part of the problem last year was Wilson bringing B12 defense to our team. Hell, I relish the thought of playing against a B12 defense. And with Collins calling the shots, I think OSU is in for a big surprise and a bitter disappointment.

I hope y'all are right. If so, it's all water under the bridge and it's going to be a fun, fun season. Thump Okie State and I fully expect 8-4 at the worst... maybe 9-3.

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Originally Posted by blacklistedbully

And here I thought I was the only one who thinks we'll beat OSU. This is the B12 we're talking about, where they don't play defense. Frankly, I think part of the problem last year was Wilson bringing B12 defense to our team. Hell, I relish the thought of playing against a B12 defense. And with Collins calling the shots, I think OSU is in for a big surprise and a bitter disappointment.

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Nah, you're not the only one.

I think how our defense and WRs play will be the keys to the game. We can definitely beat them though.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I agree- there is no doubt we will be better football team- we just have a tougher schedule. We're better than Auburn or UPig- we have to handle business on the road....we'll be about the same with Mississippi- we have to hold serve at home.

That's why we play the games

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Better than Auburn & UPig, I still think we're better than Ole Miss (they come back down to earth this year). We've come damn close against LSU in years they were loaded, and even last year's loss wasn't as bad as the final score indicated. Hell, we should or could have beaten LSU a couple of times out of the past 5 despite a plethora of injuries to starters. This year LSU doesn't look to be as strong as they have in the recent past, so why consider this a loss?

TAMU was damn good last year, with a domiant O-line and a QB playing out of his mind. They lose some of that line, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnny Football take a step back this year. Yes, we played like absolute garbage in several games last year, but I do think Wilson was a big problem for us. I also think Mullen will have the staff get more creative on offense this year.

SCar is supposed to be a Top 10 team, but the last time we played a SCAr team that finished Top 10, we narrowly lost a game we should have won. Spurrier has struggled against us lately, especially against a Mullen coached MSU. It'll be an upset if we win, but I'm sure as hell not "writing that one off", as some of our fans are.

I think we'll be a lot better than the "experts" think, and will surprise this year. The only game that I look at with little hope is Bama. They are just that damn good and have the best coaching in football.

This guy still there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wkezITd1u8


He's good, but it's mostly fundamental hat on hat blocking why they run the ball so well. He carries the ball loose. If someone can pop it out early from the backside it'll get in his head early. I hope they tell our defense to punch the ball loose when coming from behind him.

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Originally Posted by blacklistedbully

Better than Auburn & UPig, I still think we're better than Ole Miss (they come back down to earth this year). We've come damn close against LSU in years they were loaded, and even last year's loss wasn't as bad as the final score indicated. Hell, we should or could have beaten LSU a couple of times out of the past 5 despite a plethora of injuries to starters. This year LSU doesn't look to be as strong as they have in the recent past, so why consider this a loss?

TAMU was damn good last year, with a domiant O-line and a QB playing out of his mind. They lose some of that line, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnny Football take a step back this year. Yes, we played like absolute garbage in several games last year, but I do think Wilson was a big problem for us. I also think Mullen will have the staff get more creative on offense this year.

SCar is supposed to be a Top 10 team, but the last time we played a SCAr team that finished Top 10, we narrowly lost a game we should have won. Spurrier has struggled against us lately, especially against a Mullen coached MSU. It'll be an upset if we win, but I'm sure as hell not "writing that one off", as some of our fans are.

I think we'll be a lot better than the "experts" think, and will surprise this year. The only game that I look at with little hope is Bama. They are just that damn good and have the best coaching in football.

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Im just glad that Im not alone. I think the SC game is less likely than the A&M game, but I don't think its like the Bama game.

I truly believe that this is our year against LSU. I have to put up with a bunch of LSU bullshit here on the coast, so I can't tell you how much that one would mean to me.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

This guy still there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wkezITd1u8


He's good, but it's mostly fundamental hat on hat blocking why they run the ball so well. He carries the ball loose. If someone can pop it out early from the backside it'll get in his head early. I hope they tell our defense to punch the ball loose when coming from behind him.

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He was drafted by Dallas, he won't be there. Just another big hit for OSU that the experts are missing.

He's solid for sure. I think they lose a few OL too. They're loaded at QB and WR, but they always are.

I don't necessarily think we will get drummed. I just think, from a program building perspective, we aren't quite ready for taking OOC scheduling risks.

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Originally Posted by Pollodawg

I think we will be a lot better this year personally. Why should State be afraid of a team whose pass d ranked in the triple digits last season and who has a brand new O line, won't name a starting QB, and won't name a starting TB? Have they "outrecruited" us, a purely subjective notion anyway? No. Shouldn't they be just as afraid of us? Do you see their fans quaking in their boots? No. Why in blue hell are ours? Get that slit between the thighs fixed and let's do this. I hope the team has more cajones than most of our fans......

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Because our pass O was pretty average and our spread D was well below par. If we played OK-State in a bowl game last year, they would've beat us worse than aTm did. We might beat them, but if we played them 10 times, they'd win 8 or 9 of those games.

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Originally Posted by missouridawg

Because our pass O was pretty average and our spread D was well below par. If we played OK-State in a bowl game last year, they would've beat us worse than aTm did. We might beat them, but if we played them 10 times, they'd win 8 or 9 of those games.

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Did Bracky self-impose another penalty that we have to play them with last year's team and coaches?

I think this year's team would beat OK State 6 out of 10 with an overtime loss in Game 8

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Originally Posted by missouridawg

Because our pass O was pretty average and our spread D was well below par. If we played OK-State in a bowl game last year, they would've beat us worse than aTm did. We might beat them, but if we played them 10 times, they'd win 8 or 9 of those games.

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That would have been true last year.

How do we match up with them this year?

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Did Bracky self-impose another penalty that we have to play them with last year's team and coaches?

I think this year's team would beat OK State 6 out of 10 with an overtime loss in Game 8

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Coach - You and I agree on a lot of things, but this just ain't going to be one them. And I swear on everything holy, that I hope I'm wrong... but we lost a LOT of leadership on D (Banks, Slay, Broom, Lawrence, Boyd). Our entire secondary, sans Nickoe, will be new. Ok-State's entire offense returns minus a few lineman. If Quay, Nick, PJ, Preston, Denico, and the rest of the front 4 have their shit together, we've got a punchers chance. Our offense will get between 24 and 38 this game... but will our D hold them below 30? Not many defense have done that to Ok-State... much less a defense that's brining in 5 new starters and purged a lot off the 2-deep.

I really, really, really hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see our defense doing much this game that prevent Ok-State from scoring. In college football there are 3 or 4 spread teams/coaches that are elite. Oregon, Kevin Sumlin (at Houston and aTm), and Ok-State are ALL going to get their points.

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Originally Posted by MSUDawg4Life

That would have been true last year.

How do we match up with them this year?

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After hearing Mullen talk this spring, I don't expect our offense to be much different than last year... so we're most likely going to be pretty average again unless we learned how to throw a screen pass or to our tight ends.

Our defense is being re-branded and it is definitely the wild-card in this. If it's the kind of turnaround that Manny did from Torchbush in 2010, then we've got a shot to win... but we're so damn young on defense that I just don't see us coming out on fire in game 1.... especially against the best offense after Oregon, year-in year-out, in the country.

They lost 4 of their 5 starters on the OL- that's huge. They lost half of their Secondary also- and it was shitty to begin with.

I'll be surprised if we don't score 35-40 points

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Originally Posted by missouridawg

After hearing Mullen talk this spring, I don't expect our offense to be much different than last year... so we're most likely going to be pretty average again unless we learned how to throw a screen pass or to our tight ends.

Our defense is being re-branded and it is definitely the wild-card in this. If it's the kind of turnaround that Manny did from Torchbush in 2010, then we've got a shot to win... but we're so damn young on defense that I just don't see us coming out on fire in game 1.... especially against the best offense after Oregon, year-in year-out, in the country.

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taking nothing away from OSU very very good offense.. But the best all around defense that they played against last year was TCU from a stats stand point.. ranked around #20 and they only faced 3 in the tpo 50 and one of those was Texas tech.. 6 teams they faced finished with an overall def of 86 to 119.. Baylor coming in at 119 Arizona at 118 and Kansas at 113.. they lost 2 of those games and squeaked by Kansas..
we should be from an athletic stand point as good as they have faced in a while.. saying that they may put up 50. but I don't see it.. and they finished around #80 in defense.. we may put up some good numbers against them..
so yes we have a punchers chance for sure...

oh, it'll be a shoot out. they score and are damn efficient on offense. we don't have to mess up, blow a coverage, get beat, miss a tackle or anything else for them to get 6.

Well, God forbid we got better in the off season or anything.

Young on defense?

We are going to start:

3 Sr's
7 Jr's (many of them redshirts)
1 Soph

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Young on defense?

We are going to start:

3 Sr's
7 Jr's (many of them redshirts)
1 Soph

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Remember the last time we lost 3 Nfl players off of a defense in pernell, white, and wright? Our defense struggled early in 2011. We lost slay, banks, and Boyd this year... As well as our defensive captain and another 4 year starter. We have experience if you look at the game day program.... But if you look at actual game reps, we are young.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Young on defense?

We are going to start:

3 Sr's
7 Jr's (many of them redshirts)
1 Soph

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the 2nd string DL we have could turn out to be as good if not better than the first string before years end.. and the 2nd string LB's can come in and we wont miss a beat from an athletic stand point..

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Originally Posted by missouridawg

Remember the last time we lost 3 Nfl players off of a defense in pernell, white, and wright? Our defense struggled early in 2011. We lost slay, banks, and Boyd this year... As well as our defensive captain and another 4 year starter. We have experience if you look at the game day program.... But if you look at actual game reps, we are young.

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we also lost Manny that next year.. and we all saw the past 2 years that Wilson was not the answer..
I think we got a pretty good idea of what Coach Collins can do at the Bowl game with only 2 weeks to prepare for it.. and I KNOW DT is an upgrade over old man Melvin.. and Coach Turner is as good as Wilson with the DL..

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Originally Posted by missouridawg

Remember the last time we lost 3 Nfl players off of a defense in pernell, white, and wright? Our defense struggled early in 2011. We lost slay, banks, and Boyd this year... As well as our defensive captain and another 4 year starter. We have experience if you look at the game day program.... But if you look at actual game reps, we are young.

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They only game we struggled early in 2011 was vs Auburn- and that was a coaching issue on how we played them.

Skinner, Whitley, McKinney, Eulls, Autry have all started for at least 1 season
Love, Smith, Jones, Wells, and Hughes played in every game last season...Love was our nickel guy, Smith led us in sacks, PJ has played a good bit the last 2 years, Wells has started a game or two, and Hughes was outplaying #25 the last 1/3 of the season
Cox is coming in from juco

I just dont see all this inexperience you talk about...that's the whole reason we are redshirting people and slowly putting them in for experience- so we wont ever be real inexperienced

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Originally Posted by Coach34

They only game we struggled early in 2011 was vs Auburn- and that was a coaching issue on how we played them.

Skinner, Whitley, McKinney, Eulls, Autry have all started for at least 1 season
Love, Smith, Jones, Wells, and Hughes played in every game last season...Love was our nickel guy, Smith led us in sacks, PJ has played a good bit the last 2 years, Wells has started a game or two, and Hughes was outplaying #25 the last 1/3 of the season
Cox is coming in from juco

I just dont see all this inexperience you talk about...that's the whole reason we are redshirting people and slowly putting them in for experience- so we wont every be real inexperienced

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agree

There will be some inexperience in the two deep, but the starting 11 should all be experienced players minus Cox and he's not a pup.

Autry
Smith
PJ
Eulls
Skinner
McKinney
Wells
Cox
Jiles/Love
Nickoe
Hughes

That's in all likelihood going to be the lineup game 1.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

There will be some inexperience in the two deep, but the starting 11 should all be experienced players minus Cox and he's not a pup.

Autry - Started 10 for us last year -- played in 13. Yes -- Wilson actually didn't start probably our best defensive player in 3 games.
Smith - Played in all 13 in 2012. Played in last 8 in 2011.
PJ - Played in 9 last year(suspended first 4). Played in 13 in 2011 and drew one start.
Eulls - Started 13 for us last year. Started 13 in 2011.
Skinner - Started 13 for us last year. Played in 13 in 2011 -- started 11 of those. Played in 10 in 2010.
McKinney - Started 10 for us last year -- played in 13. Yes -- Wilson actually didn't start probably our best defensive talent in 3 games.
Wells - Started 4 for us last year -- played in 13. Started 3 in 2011 -- played in 13.
Cox - incoming JUCO. Was the best DB in the NJCAA last year.
Jiles/Love - Jiles played in first 3 last year. Love started 2 games and played in 12 last year(suspended first game). Love played in 13 in 2011.
Nickoe - Started all 13 last year. Started 7 in 2011 -- played in 9 prior to injury. Yes -- Wilson actually started Bonner ahead of him twice. Started 11 in 2010 and played in all 13.
Hughes - Started final 4 games and played in all 13 last year. Played in 13 games in 2011.

That's in all likelihood going to be the lineup game 1.

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So, we bring back 13, 21, 22, 26, 36, 13, 26, JUCO, 3/25, 35, 26 games of experience.

The JUCO is jumping a guy with 13 games of experience. If Jiles offseats Love, he will be jumping a guy with 25 games of experience. Personally, I expect both Jiles and Love to start against OK State -- and us to be in nickel practically the entire game...

I don't see the inexperience that everyone is talking about.

The "we only bring back one person in the secondary" line is BS as well. Jay Hughes took Broomfield's spot prior to the final 4 games of the season -- and Jamerson Love was our nickel CB all year last year. In actuality, we bring back 3 of 5 in nickel -- and we've got another corner that got a ton of experience in Calhoun that has been injured and surpassed by the talent that is Justin Cox...

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Originally Posted by engie

So, we bring back 13, 21, 22, 26, 36, 13, 26, JUCO, 3/25, 35, 26 games of experience.

The JUCO is jumping a guy with 13 games of experience. If Jiles offseats Love, he will be jumping a guy with 25 games of experience. Personally, I expect both Jiles and Love to start against OK State -- and us to be in nickel practically the entire game...

I don't see the inexperience that everyone is talking about.

The "we only bring back one person in the secondary" line is BS as well. Jay Hughes took Broomfield's spot prior to the final 4 games of the season -- and Jamerson Love was our nickel CB all year last year. In actuality, we bring back 3 of 5 in nickel -- and we've got another corner that got a ton of experience in Calhoun that has been injured and surpassed by the talent that is Justin Cox...

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You can go further than that. The only people without experience on the entire two-deep or who will play significant minutes on the defense are Beni Brown, Richie Brown and Chris Jones. Everybody else has played. Even in the secondary.

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Originally Posted by engie

So, we bring back 13, 21, 22, 26, 36, 13, 26, JUCO, 3/25, 35, 26 games of experience.

The JUCO is jumping a guy with 13 games of experience. If Jiles offseats Love, he will be jumping a guy with 25 games of experience. Personally, I expect both Jiles and Love to start against OK State -- and us to be in nickel practically the entire game...

I don't see the inexperience that everyone is talking about.

The "we only bring back one person in the secondary" line is BS as well. Jay Hughes took Broomfield's spot prior to the final 4 games of the season -- and Jamerson Love was our nickel CB all year last year. In actuality, we bring back 3 of 5 in nickel -- and we've got another corner that got a ton of experience in Calhoun that has been injured and surpassed by the talent that is Justin Cox...

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This type of analysis is exactly the opposite of what every major publication does. Every publication simply looks at guys lost (Lawrence, Boyd, Slay, Banks) and thinks wow MSU lost a lost, their defense is going to be young. What they don't do is actually look at the stats of the players coming back and realize that they spent a lot of time on the field and have been successful.

The more and more I Think about this year, the more excited I get. Plus if you need to get pumped even more, just watch this:

Go to the 19:15 mark, and enjoy yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR-v7xorO9g

Alright, gentlemen! Based on the evidence presented, you've convinced me. If we play our best on both sides, it's a 50-50 proposition. If OSU comes in thinking all they have to do is show up, we kick dey ass!

Plus, they dont take into account one of the problems we had defending Spread teams last year was that we were playing with 2 Strong LB's in Lawrence and Skinner, instead of a smaller, faster hybrid LB to play the Weak LB spot. Skinner moving to SLB, which is his natural position, and Wells sliding in to WLB gives us more speed at LB. Wells can line up and play the run or he can bump out and play a WR in coverage if he needs to. Skinner struggled some last year doing that because he was simply out of position- but too good to be on the sideline watching

Well....., I' glad I started this thread, and we were able to get this discussion out of the way before media days begin.

Here is what we have established in this thread:

1. We have experience at important positions

2. Our schedule is brutal

3. Although our schedule is brutal, it doesn't mean that the games are un-winnable.

4. Much of the perception of us is shaped due to how we played in the final games last year. However, that has nothing to do with this year, and could actually motivate this team more than they otherwise would have been. Our team and coaches haven't been sulking for the past 7 months.

Next week, SEC media days begin Birmingham. There is an exceptional chance that we are going to be picked 6th or 7th in the SEC West. However, when that happens, just remember this conversation. We will have a damned good team that is capable of winning most every game they play this year. Don't let the Hugh Kellenberger's and the fat faced Bama writer discourage your excitement for our season when they make fun of us next week and laugh when Mullen says our goal is to get to Atlanta(Because you know he going to say that, as he should).

For the people who said that the Tucson article was really good, they had us ranked 64th and that is totally absurd when you when look at our depth chart. The point is that the perception the media has/is shaping for this team is completely due to our schedule and lack of research on their part. I am not being a Pollyanna that only sees things through maroon colored glasses in this thread. There are some years where that could be said, but not this year. We are a top 30 quality team and program right now, and our schedule, the perception, and how we finished last season (which has nothing to do with year) is the only thing that keeps people from realizing that.

Don't let the media discourage you, we have a good team, will be underdogs a lot, but have the players and team to shock many many people this year.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

For the people who said that the Tucson article was really good, they had us ranked 64th and that is totally absurd when you when look at our depth chart.

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The Tucson article hit the nail on the head, the rankings they were using were USA Today's and that writer was just using that as a basis.