Ray has taken a step back

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Originally Posted by Gatordog

First time poster but long time reader. A conversation I had with Coach Richard Williams before the season started, on the state of MSU basketball and Coach Ray. He stated that he hopes it works but the issues Coach Ray are facing are tough. First thing he came into a fire storm. This has been gone over 1000 times no need to validate. Second he stated that Coach Ray is trying to bring Big 10 and Big East ball down south. That means more screens, picks, and toughness. What concerned the Coach is the fact that he doesn't have the players to run this type of basketball and furthermore the kids he will be recruiting in the south don't play this type of ball. They are all athletes, thin and lanky. Coach doesn't believe the recruits down south want to play in this type of system because they aren't (A) built that way and (B) aren't running up and down letting their ability take over the game. The other issue Coach mentioned was that Ray is a strict disciplinarian. Coach Williams mentioned how all the kids today smoke the weed not just drink like most kids did 20 years ago. None of them can pass a test. If you don't think this effects recruits then you are kidding yourself. Coach thinks Ray is a great Coach with a lot of variables and if they all line up MSU basketball will be great again. Now this was before season started and his views could have changed. Flame away and bash the first post. By the way WillClarkfan has to be a rebel

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What are screens and picks? I haven't seen us even attempt one in a LONG time. That sounds a lot more like what we did under Richard than it does what we are doing now.

Can we please stop comparing WBB to MBB. The ladies play with a smaller ball. It is much easier to handle and shoot. Sorry just a pet peeve of mine.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Can we please stop comparing WBB to MBB. The ladies play with a smaller ball. It is much easier to handle and shoot. Sorry just a pet peeve of mine.

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So larger men's hands wouldn't make up the difference?

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

So larger men's hands wouldn't make up the difference?

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To a certain point and then too large of hands actually make shooting and handling more difficult.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

So larger men's hands wouldn't make up the difference?

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The rim is the same size

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Originally Posted by codeDawg

Dude. We just got passed by Indiana Purdue University Fort Wayne in KenPom. It's everything, and Ray is responsible for everything. You sound like Freeze.

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I was simply arguing that one point. If we fired him today I'd be fine with it

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Originally Posted by DudyDawg

The rim is the same size

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Which in some cases makes layups more difficult for the ladies.

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Originally Posted by MadDawg

Which in some cases makes layups more difficult for the ladies.

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Smaller ball going into the same size circumference is always easier from any distance. Kinda like your dick compared to mine with any ***** anywhere.

Why does anyone think we run an offense? It has been said that 90% of our practices goes to defense. He promised this year would defend 95 feet of the Court. I heard Him when he said play defense the offense will fix itself. Basketball is simple -you have to make more baskets than who you are playing. If you are playing offense by osmosis your ass will lose.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

To a certain point and then too large of hands actually make shooting and handling more difficult.

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Being able to palm a basketball helps control the ball. I would say almost all guys can and most girls cannot. All I was referring to is passing and handling the ball. We look lackadaisical when doing both. We defend pretty good which shows he can get the effort but we don't seem to be getting better at anything else.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

All I was referring to is passing and handling the ball. We look lackadaisical when doing both. We defend pretty good which shows he can get the effort but we don't seem to be getting better at anything else.

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Could not agree more. We are a putrid "skilled" team (passing, shooting, dribbling).

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Originally Posted by Gatordog

First time poster but long time reader. A conversation I had with Coach Richard Williams before the season started, on the state of MSU basketball and Coach Ray. He stated that he hopes it works but the issues Coach Ray are facing are tough. First thing he came into a fire storm. This has been gone over 1000 times no need to validate. Second he stated that Coach Ray is trying to bring Big 10 and Big East ball down south. That means more screens, picks, and toughness. What concerned the Coach is the fact that he doesn't have the players to run this type of basketball and furthermore the kids he will be recruiting in the south don't play this type of ball. They are all athletes, thin and lanky. Coach doesn't believe the recruits down south want to play in this type of system because they aren't (A) built that way and (B) aren't running up and down letting their ability take over the game. The other issue Coach mentioned was that Ray is a strict disciplinarian. Coach Williams mentioned how all the kids today smoke the weed not just drink like most kids did 20 years ago. None of them can pass a test. If you don't think this effects recruits then you are kidding yourself. Coach thinks Ray is a great Coach with a lot of variables and if they all line up MSU basketball will be great again. Now this was before season started and his views could have changed. Flame away and bash the first post. By the way WillClarkfan has to be a rebel

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To me all this is just noise. A good coach gets in a situation, evaluates the situation, and works a plan that will let him succeed in that situation. If he doesn't he's not a good coach and is just trying to put a square peg in a round hole. That was Croom's problem, he only knew one way to coach and couldn't make it work here nor could he adjust once it was obvious it wasn't going to work to do anything else, therefore, he was not a good head coach. If Ray can't adapt to winning with players from the South, no matter the reason, we need to move on. Heck, Mullen is a Northeastern Yankee that has adapted to recruiting and coaching in MS and succeeded simply because he is a good coach. I've lost faith in Ray this season that he will ever be successful here. I was onboard but this year was the decision maker for me because he has a veteran team that still can't win. Yes, you can sort of live with some unexpected pre-SEC losses due to injuries but our SEC record isn't going to be much better either even though he has four guys that have started or played significantly for Ray for 3 years now and a PG in his second year. That is enough to have shown much more improvement than we have. He will have to win me back next year I guess but for now he's lost me in thinking he is a long term answer.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

To me all this is just noise. A good coach gets in a situation, evaluates the situation, and works a plan that will let him succeed in that situation. If he doesn't he's not a good coach and is just trying to put a square peg in a round hole. That was Croom's problem, he only knew one way to coach and couldn't make it work here nor could he adjust once it was obvious it wasn't going to work to do anything else, therefore, he was not a good head coach. If Ray can't adapt to winning with players from the South, no matter the reason, we need to move on. Heck, Mullen is a Northeastern Yankee that has adapted to recruiting and coaching in MS and succeeded simply because he is a good coach. I've lost faith in Ray this season that he will ever be successful here. I was onboard but this year was the decision maker for me because he has a veteran team that still can't win. Yes, you can sort of live with some unexpected pre-SEC losses due to injuries but our SEC record isn't going to be much better either even though he has four guys that have started or played significantly for Ray for 3 years now and a PG in his second year. That is enough to have shown much more improvement than we have. He will have to win me back next year I guess but for now he's lost me in thinking he is a long term answer.

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I am exactly in the same boat. I thought this year as long as we didn't have crazy injuries that we would be at least in the running for the NIT and next year with a lot of experience have a chance at the dance. Now I think to even get into the CBI, we need some of the incoming freshmen and Zuppardo to be a lot better than what we have now. Ray gets effort but I don't know if his offensive coaching is going to translate to the type of players he is getting. I believe Croom is a perfect example of using what you have completely incorrectly. Whether it is the players running the offense correctly or the coaching, after 3 years it all comes back to Ray. 3 years is a long time in basketball.