Does Ray have any expectations, or does he get a pass forever?

That is what I thought ,in the last 7 games we could easily win 6 or lose 5 who knows. Strickin and Ray need to have a Come to Jesus meeting at the end of the season. that is for sure

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Originally Posted by engie

I know decisions about futures aren't made mid-season and is way outside of Stricklin's normal MO. Common sense says that Strick is going to publicly support Rick Ray right up until the very day that he fires him...

We have to look no further than Stansbury's actual resigning to get the answer to the question. No one knew it was happening until after the season(because it wasn't). More particularly, after the postseason meeting between Strick and Stans, where Strick laid out ultimatums for him to accomplish to stick around, Stans felt insulted, and refused those ultimatums, and walked.

Strick wasn't expecting to have to make that coaching hire at that time. It's clear that it caught him off guard. He was very naive at the time. He knows full well right now that it's a pretty good chance he has to make a move soon... There's no excuse not to have out $2mil feelers already to potential "home run" hires just to see who is biting...

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Originally Posted by engie

Omniscience is quite the gift, if you'd be willing to let the rest of us borrow some of it**

No one knows what Strick's attitude is. Let's not sit here and pretend that Strick hasn't made hard decisions when the time comes. He's been anything but a "yes" man. Anyone alleging this of him hasn't been watching the same things that I have apparently.

He torched a couple of lifelong bulldogs for underperformance in athletics in any sport. Hazelwood(alum)? Out. Fanning-Otis(after 17 years)? Gone. Jay Miller(after 9 years at MSU)? Out. Everyone knows the story with Stansbury. Dynamiting Dudy Noble? He's doing it. Let's not pretend it doesn't take cajones to concoct that plan and follow through with it... Softball/tennis renovation -- underway. Moving the golf teams to a new clubhouse at Old Waverly -- likely at the cost of the local course(and met with much negativity among factions) -- Did it, and it'll probably end up making us a powerhouse in the sport.

I thought Hazelwood got one year too long, and hindsight says Stansbury was put out at the wrong time(one year too early or too late -- depending on your POV -- but given that we crashed and burned anyway, it would have been a better case to allow him to be the one that did it). The rest of them were fired exactly when they needed to be fired. And outside of MBB, the new hires have been tremendous... So, let's just wait and see what the rest of the year brings...

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I agree with you on this post

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Originally Posted by engie

Omniscience is quite the gift, if you'd be willing to let the rest of us borrow some of it**

No one knows what Strick's attitude is. Let's not sit here and pretend that Strick hasn't made hard decisions when the time comes. He's been anything but a "yes" man. Anyone alleging this of him hasn't been watching the same things that I have apparently.

He torched a couple of lifelong bulldogs for underperformance in athletics in any sport. Hazelwood(alum)? Out. Fanning-Otis(after 17 years)? Gone. Jay Miller(after 9 years at MSU)? Out. Everyone knows the story with Stansbury. Dynamiting Dudy Noble? He's doing it. Let's not pretend it doesn't take cajones to concoct that plan and follow through with it... Softball/tennis renovation -- underway. Moving the golf teams to a new clubhouse at Old Waverly -- likely at the cost of the local course(and met with much negativity among factions) -- Did it, and it'll probably end up making us a powerhouse in the sport.

I thought Hazelwood got one year too long, and hindsight says Stansbury was put out at the wrong time(one year too early or too late -- depending on your POV -- but given that we crashed and burned anyway, it would have been a better case to allow him to be the one that did it). The rest of them were fired exactly when they needed to be fired. And outside of MBB, the new hires have been tremendous... So, let's just wait and see what the rest of the year brings...

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I agree Stricklin has made some tough decisions where it relates to coaches he did NOT hire. Guess we will see what he does when dealing with a coach directly tied to him.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

I realize that. I'm speaking of message board posters. No one on the message boards thought we would fire Croom and we did.

I'm not ready to write Stricklin off b/c of one mistake. Byrne made mistakes too. Byrne is the one who killed the atmosphere in the Hump by moving the students away from mid court and also shouldn't have fired Hank Flick.

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Strick hasn't made just one mistake with mbb. That's again why he should go too because he's choosing to make three mistakes in a row. That can not happen.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

no one thought we would fire Croom one year removed from being named the SEC coach of the year. .

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That statement is not true at all. Byrne just wanted any kind of excuse. He asked for and got the go-ahead after the Ga Tech game provided Crooms didnt pull a miracle out of his ass the rest of the season

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Originally Posted by engie

I know decisions about futures aren't made mid-season and is way outside of Stricklin's normal MO. Common sense says that Strick is going to publicly support Rick Ray right up until the very day that he fires him...

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The story I got was Ray inherited a cluster and was told to clean it up. He was guaranteed at least 4 years because of the state of the program with people leaving, drugs, lack of work ethic, etc....Year 1 was an absolute throw away and not even looked at as counting against him. So this is considered "year 2"

Now that tune may change when the heavy hitters storm Keenum's office- but that's the only way it's going to change. Strick aint firing him unless he Keenum demands it

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Strick hasn't made just one mistake with mbb. That's again why he should go too because he's choosing to make three mistakes in a row. That can not happen.

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You are literally applying Stricklin's job to basketball only. Open your eyes and look at everything else he's done with athletics. Did he make a mistake with basketball? Yeah, but to call for his job because he messed up a hire in 1 of the 20 sports teams he's over is ridiculous.

Strick aint losing his job- it wont even be considered

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Originally Posted by Coach34

The story I got was Ray inherited a cluster and was told to clean it up. He was guaranteed at least 4 years because of the state of the program with people leaving, drugs, lack of work ethic, etc....Year 1 was an absolute throw away and not even looked at as counting against him. So this is considered "year 2"

Now that tune may change when the heavy hitters storm Keenum's office- but that's the only way it's going to change. Strick aint firing him unless he Keenum demands it

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Well thankfully the cluster he inherited left him 4 of the most productive 5 players he has (Sword, Ware, Thomas, RJohnson) or no telling how sorry we would be. Hard to believe in Year 3 or "Year 2" there is only one Ray recruit contributing much of anything to this team and that's IJ Ready.

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Originally Posted by engie

Omniscience is quite the gift, if you'd be willing to let the rest of us borrow some of it**

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If you want to label stating the obvious as omniscience, have at it. BTW, I never said SS hasn't made hard decisions. Making hard decisions has zero to do with my post.

I did say I fear SS will be hardheaded and give Ray much extra time to justify this bad hire. Of course if you want to justify Rick Ray as a good hire you are welcome to do so.

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Originally Posted by M.Fillmore

If you want to label stating the obvious as omniscience, have at it. BTW, I never said SS hasn't made hard decisions. Making hard decisions has zero to do with my post.

I did say I fear SS will be hardheaded and give Ray much extra time to justify this bad hire. Of course if you want to justify Rick Ray as a good hire you are welcome to do so.

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You weren't stating the obvious. You were stating your opinion which presumes to know Stricklin's thought process. A process none of us actually know and most people willing to take an emotionally detached look at it would disagree with you on. Practically everyone was sure Stansbury was coming back -- and Strick would never have the nerve to do what needed to be done due to Bailey Howell's friendship with Stansbury. I remember that thought process like it was yesterday.

Strick has made one major mistake that's fully/directly attributable to him in his time as AD at MSU. He listens as well as anyone and comes off about as far from "hard headed" as anyone around. Jumbotron problems at football? Admitted, got ahead of, fixed. Same will be true for the traffic next year. He's always been willing to admit/fix mistakes as quickly as he can and is a very good listener. Always. Yet people think he's suddenly going to become this locked down, hard-headed AD because a basketball coach he hired isn't getting it done? You think Strick's more endeared to Rick Ray than his MSU legend father-in-law's great buddy? Stricklin was around when the Hump was rocking. Don't forget that. He knows what we can be in basketball. He knows what we expect to be. AND he knows what we've seen for the last 3 years, and really to some extent 6 or 7 years, isn't getting it done.

When it's time for Ray to go -- Strick will send him on his way IMO. Exactly like he has everyone else whose time came. It's unlikely that time will be this year, but that's not to say that it's off the table depending on how we close out. Another brutal February collapse, and his hand will be pressed...

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Originally Posted by Coach34

The story I got was Ray inherited a cluster and was told to clean it up. He was guaranteed at least 4 years because of the state of the program with people leaving, drugs, lack of work ethic, etc....Year 1 was an absolute throw away and not even looked at as counting against him. So this is considered "year 2"

Now that tune may change when the heavy hitters storm Keenum's office- but that's the only way it's going to change. Strick aint firing him unless he Keenum demands it

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I can see him having the first year as a throw away given what he inherited and the injury situation. That seems natural. But I can't see any way we guaranteed 4 years. It would be stupid on so many levels, not the least of which invites procrastination and removes the urgency to win and win now. Now, we obviously guaranteed that we would pay him for 4 years given the initial contract -- so I can see where people are taking that and changing the application a little in order to push a "Stricklin is just like LT" agenda.

Year 1 throw away. Injuries and drugs.
Year 2 -- on Ray. Letting Lewis and Steele fester into this second year -- instead of sending them on their way and filling those scholarships is on him. Playing as shorthanded as we did is on him. You can excuse one or two individual cases. But when half the team is gone or ineligible in year 2 -- it's at his feet.
Year 3 -- beaten to death already.

We'll see what happens. No one is happy -- and it's even more disheartening when you start to show signs of being decent, start to buy in, and then have the rug pulled from under you in the most painful of ways. Last night was painful.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

Well thankfully the cluster he inherited left him 4 of the most productive 5 players he has (Sword, Ware, Thomas, RJohnson) or no telling how sorry we would be. Hard to believe in Year 3 or "Year 2" there is only one Ray recruit contributing much of anything to this team and that's IJ Ready.

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Black is going to be solid. I like him. Houston too- but he is raw and needs work.

If we have to depend on Oliver Black and Demetrius Houston, once again, we are in serious trouble. They are nothing more than role players. Neither have offensive skills but are athletic.

Black is one of our most talented players right now.

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Originally Posted by engie

Last night was painful.

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I totally agree. Last night was a chance to finish off Grant at Bama and show we really have started to climb some. Losing last night just basically ensured that we are still one of the 3 worst teams in the SEC. Wins over Bama and Mizzou would have gotten us to 6-6 and respectable. Showing signs of life and direction.

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Originally Posted by YazooDawg23

If we have to depend on Oliver Black and Demetrius Houston, once again, we are in serious trouble. They are nothing more than role players. Neither have offensive skills but are athletic.

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Black is a solid SEC player and will be a 10 and 7 guy his last 2 years

I guess I have been spoiled with State big men over the past decade. We transitioned from Mario Austin to Lawrence Roberts to Charles Rhodes to Jarvis to Moultrie. I have high standards I guess.

I'd like to see us recruit true centers -- and transition Black into Roquez's role in the 4. He'd excel more in that role IMO. Has shown glimpses of ability to shoot it...

Of the guys listed, only Lawrence Roberts was elite as a true freshman. And he was at Baylor at the time. The rest of them matured into tremendous players and showed promise early on certainly...

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Originally Posted by YazooDawg23

I guess I have been spoiled with State big men over the past decade. We transitioned from Mario Austin to Lawrence Roberts to Charles Rhodes to Jarvis to Moultrie. I have high standards I guess.

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2 of those 4 were transfers.. That's what we have to get next year, a transfer or 2. They don't even have to be eligible next year although would be nice to get a graduate from a mid major or somewhere with some skills that wants to play one year in the SEC . Just look at Mason at Auburn. Transfered from Nigera. And is a huge contributor for them..
Look at Kennedy.. I think they have 4 transfers that all contribute for them this year.

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Originally Posted by engie

I'd like to see us recruit true centers -- and transition Black into Roquez's role in the 4. He'd excel more in that role IMO. Has shown glimpses of ability to shoot it...

Of the guys listed, only Lawrence Roberts was elite as a true freshman. And he was at Baylor at the time. The rest of them matured into tremendous players and showed promise early on certainly...

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Well we got a 6'10 Ndoye for that role, he's just not able to contribute much for now. Of course probably not many 6'10-7' guys that can play immediatedly that will accept our current level of "scholarship offer".

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Originally Posted by DawgFromOxford

You are literally applying Stricklin's job to basketball only. Open your eyes and look at everything else he's done with athletics. Did he make a mistake with basketball? Yeah, but to call for his job because he messed up a hire in 1 of the 20 sports teams he's over is ridiculous.

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You're gawd damn right I am. You would too if it was baseball or football that SS took three gigantic shits on in a row. Basketball must be treated like a co-#1 to be successful.

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Originally Posted by mic

2 of those 4 were transfers.. That's what we have to get next year, a transfer or 2. They don't even have to be eligible next year although would be nice to get a graduate from a mid major or somewhere with some skills that wants to play one year in the SEC . Just look at Mason at Auburn. Transfered from Nigera. And is a huge contributor for them..
Look at Kennedy.. I think they have 4 transfers that all contribute for them this year.

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Ray doesn't believe in signing transfers. Must be the case since he's missed out on over 1,800 of them. It's one of those castration rules that Ray put on his team that SS got full wood over and hired him. "No AAU, No transfers". We are the suck and we will suck the most honorable way. Our suck is above signing sleezy transfers. We'd rather suck.

Yall put me on record. He gets another year. From a source that signs rr's contracts.

Im not saying it is right. Again, we could lose 10 in a row and that change but this has been the stance the past 3 yeArs and was still the stance up to two weeks ago. Im not asking every 3 days for message board heroes.

Take it or leave it.

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Originally Posted by Aces High

Yall put me on record. He gets another year. From a source that signs rr's contracts.

Im not saying it is right. Again, we could lose 10 in a row and that change but this has been the stance the past 3 yeArs and was still the stance up to two weeks ago. Im not asking every 3 days for message board heroes.

Take it or leave it.

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This man knows of which he speaks

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Originally Posted by engie

When it's time for Ray to go -- Strick will send him on his way IMO.

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It reads like you are claiming omniscience.

If he left tomorrow it would be too late. If he was gone it would take the next coach 24 hr to teach us to inbound the basketball.

Giving him the 4th year is pure lunacy but it seems that's what's going to happen. This is just like Muschamp at Florida -- it was obvious after Year 3 that he needed to go, but Foley was so tied up in his "brilliant" hire to admit it. Had to wait for the Year 4 tanking.

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Originally Posted by M.Fillmore

It reads like you are claiming omniscience.

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I guess you need an explanation of what IMO stands for. And where I claimed to be inside his head as you did.

Feel free to list examples of why you think Ray has a lifetime contract with Stricklin -- since I already listed a bunch of far more "MSU" people that he's sent packing, many of which actually had success in their past.

This story is very easy to predict:

- we finish with 2 more conference wins (6-12) and we bring Ray back for year 4 dividing the fanbase on this decision
- we do not sign Malik. he goes to Kentucky and has LSU as a back up plan if a couple of the UK guys decide to return
- Roq Johnson and Bloodman leave.
- Ray returns 4 Senior starters and Ready for 2015-2106 campaign
- Strugg, Tookie, and Weatherspoon join the team
-we win around 20 games and lose 1st round in the NIT
- the administration, athletic department, and Ray supporters go all out that Ray is the guy and he has turned the corner
- Thomas, Ware, Sword, and Daniels exhausted their eligibility
- Ray comes back for 2016-2017 campaign
- we finish 13-18 (5-13) with a couple of bad non conference losses and similar games where just just do not show up offensively
- this time around Stricklin's hand is forced and the ones who were never in the Ray camp to begin with get the last laugh as Ray is relieved of his duties

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Originally Posted by engie

You weren't stating the obvious. You were stating your opinion

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Be still my soul, its a messageboard.

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Originally Posted by engie

You were stating your opinion which presumes to know Stricklin's thought process. A process none of us actually know..... I remember that thought process like it was yesterday.

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So you know Stricklin's thought process but everyone else has an opinion.

But yesterday you said MSU doesn't lose recruits near Starkville, even though we've some good recruits from Noxubee. We all know that Noxubee is waaaay away from Starkville. So far away that Starkville High had an arrangement with Noxubee to play their home games at Noxubee if their messed up field wasn't ready in time for this past season.

I'm hoping that by my pointing out how goofy some of your statements are that I can earn my way onto the glorious "blocked" list that you tout from time to time.