I watched through first 4 episodes and it seems Tyrion might get to Mareen different than in the book unless something changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabo32
I watched through first 4 episodes and it seems Tyrion might get to Mareen different than in the book unless something changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabo32
Well, does this mean Ja'qen is NOT at the Citadel as we all thought?
Or can any FM be "Ja'qen," which makes sense in that they are "no one?"
Or is the description of the guy at the Citadel just GRRM smokescreen?
Ja'Qen is just a FM "face" kept in the room in the House of Black and White... I don't think any FM will ever be directly distinguishable...unless they want to be or the plot needs them to be...Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
A lot of seemingly important book stuff hasn't made the first 4 episodes of season 5... The TV deviation is, for the first time in my opinion, reducing itself to being supremely dumbed down and less interesting than the books. Too bad George is likely to be behind from here on out...
I personally think it will suck beyond all suckdom to fiinish before the books. If the show catches up I may buy dvds but not watch till all the books are read. But it will take a lot of discipline.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Pretty sure it's going to pass it in many respects this season. Problem is the show is diverging into a bunch of boring storylines no one cares much about. I feel like the show has mishandled everything for the past 3 episodes. Jamie in dorne? Who cares? Fixing the Riverlands and the strategic steps of his redemption would have been way more interesting. With all of the foreshadowing in the books of the Dayne importance, it drives me nuts that the show has excluded them. The Poppy storyline? Dgaf. Arya? Necessary but not really interesting yet. The only overly interesting storylines to me are the ones with Sansa and Jon Snow/Stannis..Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
I guess I do find the point they are driving home about Dany's inability to control the dragons interesting. They have keyed on that twice in two episodes. Zero white walker impending doom discussion. Hopefully that becomes key soon...
The show's primary intrigue has been its ability to eliminate loved characters and replace them with equally/more interesting characters that were tremendously interpreted to the screen. The Sand Snake storyline is way more interesting when Momma is trying to keep her daughters from turning into the war-embracing big sisters. Arianne's role just can not be filled in the way they are trying and it be as interesting to me
So who all has seen the first 4 episodes?
Just watched ep5-3. Well, Sansa seems to have been inserted into the whole Jayne Poole role. Does this mean the Sansa book storyline is unimportant garbage? This divergence from the book feels big. I'm really kind of uncomfortable with it. She can work in the role. What I mean is the wasting of her book storyline unless you can think of some way to merge it that I'm missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
As to who is going to die next episode I wonder if it's going to be Brienne. Show Brienne knows too much, especially that Arya is alive. And she won't be rescuing Sansa. That is.... unless the show Theon dies and Brienne sort of takes on the role of jumping from the walls at Winterhell.
Seems that HBO is taking a sharp turn away from the Book.
Who actually cares that Arya is still alive? Bran is off doing his thing and Jon is sworn to the Night's Watch. Sansa is in the middle of Littlefinger's plans. I don't know other than just following around a Stark what Brienne will end up doing. I guess she could go protect Rickon.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
People who've read the book and knows where her story is going.
I meant in the actual story. Sansa is just worried about herself. Jon is completely dedicated to the wall. Bran has dedicated himself to the 3 eyed crow. Arya realized there wasn't anything left for her in Westeros. Brienne realized she didn't want her to follow her around. Arya is one of my favorite part of the books. Jon, Tyrion, and Arya are the best part of the books.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ruckus
IMO that's the point -- seeing how far they can all drift before a climactic event puts them back together. Starks are the Kings of Winter -- hence how IMO their fortunes improve in WOW. Wish we were getting it this year...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Well. Ser Barristan then.
Does this mean he will die early in the WoW? IOW, they've moved it up? If not, I have trouble seeing the significance.
I'm pretty upset if they actually killed off the greatest fighter in Westeros in that fashion... I get that it's trying to build up the threat of the Poppy, but still... Let Greyworm be the one that goes...
I was really trying to think who would die but I didn't think of him. If they hold anywhere close to the books, what goes down in Dorne will be interesting to see the aftermath.
Didn't expect that last night, especially since Barristan is a viewpoint character in the next book. With the way the scenes were playing out with Zo Loraq back and forth I think verifies that he is the harpy. He's also not at all what I envisioned when reading the book. I'm getting a bad feeling about Shireen and greyscale as well. I don't think hers wil come back but something will happen. With her bringing out emotions in Stannis the Mannis, her mom pretty much calling her an abomination, Red Woman saying she HAD to go with them to the wall, then her saying she has kings blood and we all know what that means to her. As far as grey scale someone will get it. I'm going with Jorah. Oh yeah, sand snakes are lame. Especially Obara, don't like how they changed that storyline.
Everyone says Barristan is the greatest fighter in Westeros. If Barristan is greater than Raegar, Robert killed Raegar, shouldn't Robert be considered?
Are they completely eliminating the Griff story line? Jorah getting greyscale saving Tyrion is different. I have started rereading the books. Does the TV show let you know that Lady Stoneheart and Griff aren't important?
I think both of those storylines are going to be avoided in the show. The supporting characters in those stories aren't where they should be..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
With griff..They're using a different route for tyrion
With stone heart..Brianne and pod aren't where they are in the books
It's starting to become clear that GRRM just isn't that good of a writer..he did a good job of creating a fantasy land/setting..but his story line just has too many tangents/loose ends
Well, we did get a sort of "The North Remembers" in this episode. I still think that storyline will occur but without Stoneheart's involvement. I also think (fake)Aegon will show up at some point. There probably gonna accelerate a few eastern things this season so they can bring it in with next season. Why pay an actor for more seasons than you need to? More surprised that Tristan's storyline is still in it. This makes me wonder if it is more important than I thought. Now, my mind is opening more to the thoery that he is not dead and in fact did succeed in stealing a dragon, with Drink covering for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabo32
Part of your theory is correct, Trystane is in fact alive and well. Unfortunately his brother Quentyn was burned alive by the dragons. Wrong Martell.
Can't believe I got them mixed up. I still wonder if they're gonna bring that storyline and/or Young Griff next season. They could still do it and maybe just don't wanna include too much in this season. They already seem to moving a lot of Essos stuff way too soon. They won't have anything to tell in season six. I really think one of those two will be the main Essos storyline.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ruckus
So, now that we've confirmed what we suspected about Valyrian steel, I have a question for those that believe Jon is AA. I'm not convinced yet per sey, but it definitely possible. So if Jon is AA, then I think we have to assume that Longclaw is lightbringer. Seriously, just as in real world biblical passages, Bible scholars are often finding ancient texts/prophecies are more straightforward than you would think and it's usually an issue of language and translation that mystifies things. So AA has a flaming sword. Rabble Rabble... it certainly could be that its really as simple as something along the lines of AA has a Valyrian steel sword. It's specially forged, aka Dragon steel. Dragons are fire made flesh, fire has been put into the blade so to speak. So the thing I'd like to hear some speculation on is how/why house Mormant wouldve come into posession of this blade.
I don't believe that Longclaw is "Lightbringer" in the traditional sense from the old times. I believe that Azor Ahai's sword becomes Lightbringer because he wields it. Azor Ahai would predate steel in any form by hundreds if not thousands of years, as only the more recent Starks had steel swords. The older tombs had brass and iron weapons that had completely rotted away. Hell, even Ice(Ned Stark's Valyrian Steel greatsword that was melted down into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper for Lannisters) was not the traditional Stark Greatsword ICE and had only been around for a couple hundred years at the time the novels take place.
Jon is the battleground on many layers. He's both fire and ice as a Targaryen and Stark. Not purely either.
I don't believe there's anything special about Longclaw beyond the fact that it is a valyrian steel sword. Now, Dawn, on the other hand.
Starting to buy into the theory that there is a definite connection between the Kings of Winter(Starks) and the White Walkers. Not sure if that connection is adversarial or friendly at this point. But the term KOW seems to put them on the same side. At least in relation to Fire anyway....
Since season finale is titled "Mother's Mercy", do you guys think Lady Stoneheart finally shows up? I believe that if Ramsay takes Sansa's to Catelyn's grave she will appear. I'm guessing Cersei does the walk of shame in the finale since that is also the Mother's Mercy.
I wish but I don't think so. I'm looking for Danaerys to ride off on Drogon as the big Cliffhanger of the season. Bronn will probably bite the dust next week though I'm still trying to figure why (in show) Hotah will have reason to kill him.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcain31
Being that the Riverlands storyline has been abandoned altogether, I don't think we will be seeing LSH. Particularly not in a cameo. If they bring her back, it will be with a larger role to play.
Cersei will walk, but it will not be enough to atone for her sins. Been enough easter eggs this season to show that her trial by combat is going to happen, and the unMountain will represent her. Yet to be seen who will be the champion for the faith.
Just as in the books, I'm fully expecting this to end in cliffhanger, along with Jon's storyline, Dany's storyline, Stannis/Winterfell storyline, Dorne's, etc. There is not going to be any closure this season IMO...just more questions to ask... exactly at the same point that the books currently are...
I feel bad for Shireen. I think either Melissandre or Ramsay will take her out in episode 10
I'm not sold that we'll see her trial by combat how we would in the books. I think Loras or Lancel will be facing Robert Strong. With the mountain 'dead' who does Loras really have to fear? There's no way he'll confess to being gay and he'll demand a trial by combat and could face Strong for whatever reason. Or Lancel will be representing the faith when Cersei demands a trial and he'll face Robert Strong. Either way both Lancel and Loras could die since they're health is in question in the books. I did see where they are casting for next season and one of the descriptions meets exactly what the priest from the island (Meribald?) would be. Maybe we'll have no combats this year and his introduction will lead us to the faiths representative and we'll have the Clegane Bowl.
I think I also am starting to think that old Starks make up the White Walker council. Do you think Benjen is the Night's King?Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Champion for the faith will be the Hound, unless they change it from where the books seem to be going. I really don't think it's gonna be this season though.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
The Hound is the Valonquar... the younger sibling that will bring about her doom... by defeated her champion in the trail by combat. They haven't talked about that yet. It was not mentioned in the flashback about Maggie the Frog. It seemed truncated. Perhaps Sandor will appear in s5e10 shortly after finishing the flashback and Circe will sheit herself when he appears and she finally "gets it" about what the prophecy meant. But, if so, I still think it will be more cliffhangerish and the fight will be next season.
Ruckus, I don't think it'll Loras as he is one of the accused. He can champion himself but IDK about another.
McCain, I kind of wondered the same thing. I have read that HBO is calling the horny crowned White Walker (that sounds horrific) the Nights King. I think Stannis or Jon may be on path to supplant him if this is true. I more and more believe that the Starks were once on the "other" side (HA!), seeing as they are kings of Winter. "Winter is coming" may be a threat not a warning. "Winterfell" is possibly where "Winter" fell (was defeated) as in the final battle of the war of the dawn. Saw an interesting read on that one time but I have no idea where to find it again.
What I said may have been confusing, I didn't mean that Loras will champion anyone. I meant I don't believe we'll be seeing Cersei's trial this year, but we could see Loras have one. I just don't see the faith introducing the Hound this year without anyone going to thru isles yet. After that little clip of Robert Strong under the sheet you have to think he'll be introduced before seasons end so I thought he may face someone in combat. Most likely Strong's only appearance will be catching Cersei after her walk though and we'll have no Clegane Bowl until next year. I don't think the Hound is thru Volanquar though, I think it is more than likely Tommen.
A few things. First, last night's show was the best one yet of the series. I could watch Tyrion and Dany talk all day. Tyrion is in his element as Hand to the Queen. He discovered it under Jeoffery, I think he will come into his own with Dany. Well at least for another 2 weeks anyway.
I've been waiting for Cercei to get he comeuppance, although the trial by combat will be next season, I think it will be Lancel that kills Robert Strong on the show. I just don't think the Hound is coming back on TV.
I also think this is the last season for Ramsey, and Theon gets to do it. Although it could be early next season.
There will be no Stoneheart in the show. Doesn't fit anymore. The Mother's Mercy is Cercei's walk, Dany's ride off on Drogon, and Sheeren's sacrifice to the red god by her mom.
I'm not totally caught up on the TV show (still about 2 eps behind), but I'll chime in here. I still think Jon is TPTWP due to R+L=J. Bran will be champion for the non-human forces. This season will definitely end with Dany being taken off to the Sea of Grass by Drogon, Jon being stabbed by the Watch, etc. I could see Theon taking out Ramsey at some point, but it could play out a different way. The Hound returning to face "Robert Strong" would be epic, but I'm not counting on it. The books *seem* to have established pretty clearly that he's dead, as did the TV show. (I should probably go back and check, but we did see his eyes glaze over, didn't we?)
I also think we can't read too much into the changes on tv versus the books. While there's no question both of them are going to the same ending, I think how they are getting there will be relatively different. Some of the important things will stay and some will change so those of us who read the books will still have reason to buy and rad them after the show ends, since GRRM isn't going to get them finished before the show is over. Plus, GRRM can do things in the books that don't really work on TV - look at the Whitebeard/Selmy gimmick. That's why I'm not overly concerned about what changes are being made by HBO. They will be things that make sense for the story they are telling but still leave GRRM room to tell the story he wants to tell in the books.
People believe the hound is alive from certain hints in the books. When Brienne goes to the quiet isle they meet the elder and he tells them how the hound is dead over and over, never saying sandor clegane. Then there is the gravedigger guy there who is huge, bigger than brienne and has his face covered. At one point a dog (hound) walks up to him and he pets it. The hounds horse is also there and it's been said before than only one person could control it, if that's so then how did it get there? The path to getting to the isles is extremely difficult so that makes it even more unlikely that anyone besides the hound could get it there. Also, the elder brother says that he died on the trident but clearly he didn't as he's alive so the idea of death means something completely different to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
THIS^
It's the same metaphor that we as Christians use that we are dead to the old self and alive to Christ. What the man meant was that the Hound was indeed dead but Sandor Clegane was a new man Or something along that line. So he was telling the truth but also protecting what would seem to be Clegane's and/or the faith's desire for him to remain anonymous. By digging all those graves he may have even been performing some sort of penitent gesture such as digging a grave for all his victims.
We already know to be suspicious of anything that happens "off-screen' in both the books and show. In neither has anyone seen a dead Sandor Clegane. WMD, go re-read that chapter. It's AFFC. Brienne VI (chapter 31).
ETA: chapter citation
Let me give you my crazy theory! Jon is, indeed, AA. When he is stabbed and killed at the end of the last book his transformation will begin to AA. The prophecy says that AA will be borm among salt an smoke and that he will pull the Lightbringer from a fire. So, as is common with the Night's Watch, they will burn his body and (low and behold) he won't burn because he is still alive and is Targeryen. So he will arise from the smoke with his sword which may (at that point) literally burst into flames. Boom...transformation to AA complete...and awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
I'm not completely sold he'll die in the show like in the book the more I think about it. They're making him way too important. And if he doesn't burn it won't be because he is a targ, that's a big misconception. Targ's burn like everyone else, several have died from burning. Danny didn't burn due to all the magic and sorcery with the gypsy witch that she was burning, that or she is unique and AA, which I believe. She was born in salt, one of the worst storms of their time on Dragonstone, and again in smoke with her dragons, plus the red comet immediately after their hatching. I don't know if Lightbridge will be an actual sword or if it will be dragon but she will kill Jorah or Dario to fulfill the prophecy. If Jon is indeed AA then it will be Arya that he kills with Longclaw while shes under disguise as a faceless man.
Based on your advice, I went back and re-read the chapter's pertinent parts. There's definitely a few hints that could be construed as The Hound being alive. "The man you're hunting is dead." - Elder Brother I could definitely see that as a metaphor, particularly since they had tried to establish the Elder's gift of healing. That said, being a former knight, the Elder could have meant it quite literally. Certainly an interesting theory, though. The Hound still being alive would be epic.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
Well. I want a new book by next season. The Essos storyline has all but run a out if material unless they are planning to bring in Tattered Prince, JonCon, Aegon, Quentin story lines late. IdK if Jon/Ghost stabbing will take place this season or not. I hope not. I guess they've cut out Yara/Asha and Deepwood Motte episode. Shireen execution perplexes me.
Yara and Balon were credited for this season so I'm guessing he dies and we're being set up for Euron on S6. I think Jon gets stabbed at the end of the episode and TV viewers are left hanging. Hopefully we'll what Varys has been up to and Brienne storm the castle to save Sansa. What's going to happen when she runs across Standiss' army? She made it clear her priority is to avenge Renly in episode 3. What is going to be the result of Shireen? Maybe Sansa and Reek get revenge on the Bolton's due to her kingsblood sacrifice.