Engie....on the baseball stadium......

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Originally Posted by engie

So, it should be left alone to wither away then?

Sorry -- I disagree with 100% of what you said here.

And they aren't going to mess up LFL.

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you disagree that it's special? that it has a culture about it? That DNF is not sacred to many of our fans?

You're wrong.

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Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero

Why did we need to bowl in the football stadium? We could have just brought in some bigger bleachers to accommodate everyone. It won't help us win any games. What a total waste of money.**
Why did we need to build basketball and football practice facilities? It's not like the football team will be any better because of it. These things won't help us win any games. What a total waste of money.**

You build new facilities to elevate your program, attract recruits, accommodate fans, etc. Technically we don't NEED a new baseball stadium- just like we didn't NEED to bowl in the football stadium or build new practice facilities. No, these facility upgrades don't directly impact wins and losses, but they do impact the prestige/level of your program- which in turn does affect wins and losses.

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Glad to see you agree.

Look I get what you're saying. I realize all that. Contrary to many internet sheep, I am FAR from an idiot. I do disagree with this:

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Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero

DNF/PDS is absolutely, positively NOT a top facility. Not even close.

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That's wrong, pal. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's not nice. Players love playing there, visiting fans love coming. Just because you had to stand in line at the concession stand doesn't mean it's not a top venue. This is simply where we disagree, nothing more.

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Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero

Yes, if you have connections, it is a fantastic place to watch baseball. The problem is, new fans don't have connections- thus their experience is awful. This is why most of the people who love MSU baseball are older. They got in on a sweetheart, good ole boy deal and have unintentionally shut out the majority of the next generation of MSU fans.

Don't get me wrong, I love our older fans, but we need to have a spot for new fans too. And finding/making a spot for new fans will be extremely difficult if we try to keep the current grandstand.

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100% agree. I am just not convinced that a new grandstand is the ONLY way to do this.

Thank you for a reasonable response.

exactly- if you cant get on a rig or sit in chairbacks- Dudy Noble sucks

You couldnt pay me to sit in those bleachers. 1989 was first and last time to ever do that shit

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

I don't want to put lipstick on a pig. But we do need to consider the 'do-nothing' alternative. I wouldn't do anything based on 'what we deserve'. We don't deserve shit, we've never even won a national title. If we can make money with this thing, I'm all for it. But I don't want to go broke doing it. Show me the money. And not some bullshit data that engie thunk up one day while sitting in his lonely glow of his cubicle. Some of our fans bitch about the Farm Bureau sign, have you seen the 14 signs behind Alex Box's plate? Tony's and all kinds of stuff. That's what this is going to be. How can we guarantee we won't suck in 5 years and attendance goes away? We need to win big first and CEMENT our fanbase. We're a damn fickle bunch, I know. I was there during Polk II, 2009 and 2010. Actually THIS year is the first year our attendance has been respectable again. Not last year, outside SBW and Regionals. LSU and Carolina fill their shit up for EVERY series.

I want to see the numbers before I go all in on an idea. SECN money? BC? Corporation donations? No one knows (not even engine). That's probably also why we're not seeing a huge push to make this happen overnight, like so many think.

On the stadium, of course I'd like to have a brand new awesome stadium, who wouldn't. Don't put words in my mouth to try and argue.

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The do nothing alternative is completely out the window. The administration wouldn't have held multiple town hall meetings and hired a damn architecture dream team if they had any intention on "doing nothing."

I personally don't mind a few ads. If that's what it takes to pay the bills, so be it.

I don't know about South Carolina, but as for LSU's attendance, did you watch any of our games in Baton Rouge this year? That place was only halfway full. We've had better actual attendance this year in each our SEC series than they had in the series against us. I believe the three day actual total was something like 15,000-16,000- so don't give me this line about LSU "filling their stadium up" when I've seen first hand that they haven't.

As for money, I have absolutely no idea how Stricklin is planning on raising it- I don't work for him or have access to any of that information. How in the world should I know about who's donating what for this? Do we have an unlimited supply of money to throw at this? No, but it's probably not as bad as you're making it out to be. And yes, this new grandstand/stadium absolutely would make us more money- there's no doubt about that.

I have a family of 3 and I would buy chairbacks right freaking now if they would sell them to me.

I lost some faith in what Scott will do with the stadium when he said he thought berms were a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We're going to build a new stadium. For the life of me, I can't understand why this bothers people

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Let's see what they come up with this summer.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

Address the money issue.

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Money wont be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

you disagree that it's special? that it has a culture about it? That DNF is not sacred to many of our fans?

You're wrong.

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Our people and culture is what's special.

The field and concrete are nothing. They are just there for the party.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

That's wrong, pal. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's not nice. Players love playing there, visiting fans love coming.

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You have more trouble than anyone else I've ran into in understanding what it REALLY is that makes Dudy Noble special. Thanks for coming out with the ridiculousness again in this thread though after all this time.

Saying Dudy Noble is "nice" is like saying Petty's is "nice". No, it isn't. Can it be "good"? Yes. Nice? Hell no. It's so nice they have a half dozen floor unit AC's in the hallways of the skyboxes. "Nice" indeed...

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Just because you had to stand in line at the concession stand doesn't mean it's not a top venue.

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Stand in like for concessions, stand in line to pee, can't see the game from the concourses, can't see the game from anywhere other than their seats. That's what make it "not a top venue." Anyone that's been to a single game at Trustmark Park and still call Dudy Noble a "top venue" are of questionable intelligence. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by engie

Our people and culture is what's special.

The field and concrete are nothing. They are just there for the party.

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the rigs are a big party of what makes it special like I said earlier.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

That's wrong, pal. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's not nice. Players love playing there, visiting fans love coming. Just because you had to stand in line at the concession stand doesn't mean it's not a top venue. This is simply where we disagree, nothing more.

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I strongly disagree with you.

Yes, players love playing here and fans (who have connections) love coming- but this is due to the ATMOSPHERE and not the aesthetics/amenities of the stadium. We can keep the atmosphere and have college baseball's #1 stadium if we start over- in other words, it would be a best of both worlds.

Currently, this is how I'd rank SEC West baseball stadiums (in other words, the teams we compete against) based on aesthetics and amenities:

1. LSU
2. Arkansas
3/4. UM and A&M
5. Auburn
6. MSU
7. Bama

The problem is, Bama is about to throw $35 million at their stadium and pass at least us and Auburn, and they'll probably pass UM and A&M as well. Something has to be done. And I'm sure you're about to say "DNF is better than Auburn." Well, the atmosphere is much better- but I'm talking about the actual quality of the grandstand, not the atmosphere.

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Originally Posted by engie

You have more trouble than anyone else I've ran into in understanding what it REALLY is that makes Dudy Noble special. Thanks for coming out with the ridiculousness again in this thread though after all this time.

Saying Dudy Noble is "nice" is like saying Petty's is "nice". No, it isn't. Can it be "good"? Yes. Nice? Hell no. It's so nice they have a half dozen floor unit AC's in the hallways of the skyboxes. "Nice" indeed...


Stand in like for concessions, stand in line to pee, can't see the game from the concourses, can't see the game from anywhere other than their seats. That's what make it "not a top venue." Anyone that's been to a single game at Trustmark Park and still call Dudy Noble a "top venue" are of questionable intelligence. Sorry.

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Goat is impossible. He just doesn't get it....and many other other things. 30 days wasn't enough.

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Originally Posted by ScoobaDawg

the rigs are a big party of what makes it special like I said earlier.

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No one denies that. Nor will that part of it be going away.

Dudy Noble is basically Smith Wills grandstand wise. I drew that connection as I was walking up to it from the outside on Sunday. It damn sure ain't Trustmark Park.

Why couldn't we pull a minor league franchise or a decade in that stadium? Even with renovations several times and more consistently promised? Because it just wasn't and would never have become sufficient for a minor league club without completely starting over...

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Originally Posted by engie

Our people and culture is what's special.

The field and concrete are nothing. They are just there for the party.

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that's the same thing I said. You said you disagree 100%. I'm not following.

For all those who think that all visitors think its a "great experience" to watch baseball at DNF why don't you ask a friend who's never been to DNF to attend a weekend series with you. Sit in the bleachers for all three games and see what the friend thinks of the "experience". Sitting in the bleachers is a shitty experience and for a lot of people it is the only way they can watch a game at DNF.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

that's the same thing I said. You said you disagree 100%. I'm not following.

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Saying "Dudy Noble is special" implies something totally different than "the people that make up LFL are special"... You implied that any changes out there will burst the bubble -- when in reality, it changes every single year anyway...

You and engine really should take a hint from messageboardsuperhero on how to post. It's possible to disagree without being an idiot. I think you and engine suck pretty hard, but I didn't tell you that until now. But by all means, ban me because I don't agree with you. Pathetic, pal.

I look at it like football stadiums. Nobody cares how old Bryant Denny or Neyland area, they are still considered outstanding venues. I mean, there comes a point where you have to replace things, sure. Bottom line I feel like we're doing this prematurely.

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Originally Posted by AROB44

THIS.....ALL DAY LONG !!!!!!!!!!

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Yep, like they "fixed" the Hump. Place doesn't have half the atmosphere it used to have. And that applied even before the program went to crap.

DNF is a poor experience for anyone that isn't in the grandstand or LFL. This is simply a fight between those who got a long term sweetheart deal in the chairbacks and the LFL folks not caring if anyone else enjoys the experience. These folks are aware that if a new stadium is built then their monopoly is over. We need a new facility so that everyone can enjoy the game and our team as opposed to just a few.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

I look at it like football stadiums. Nobody cares how old Bryant Denny or Neyland area, they are still considered outstanding venues. I mean, there comes a point where you have to replace things, sure. Bottom line I feel like we're doing this prematurely.

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Bryant denny is one of the nicest stadiums in the country. Probably the nicest behind new a&m

Neyland is a dump

Why are we having this discussion?

The grandstand is outdated. It could be better- and we are going to make it better.

Scott knows the LFL is special and does everyone associated with MSU. They are going to do everything to make sure it stays special but update it.

In my years of watching baseball and seeing stadiums come and go I have yet to see one instance where they built a new stadium and it was considered worse than the one before it.

Part of the problem is all our fans are seeing is Dudy-Noble Field as it is. I think if we had a renovated/new Dudy-Noble Field to compare to the current one where people could see what is exactly going to happen, I think people would see how silly they are being.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

I look at it like football stadiums. Nobody cares how old Bryant Denny or Neyland area, they are still considered outstanding venues. I mean, there comes a point where you have to replace things, sure. Bottom line I feel like we're doing this prematurely.

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I look at it like baseball stadiums -- you know -- the thing they actually compare to. Feel free to delve into the minors if you see fit.

MLB Stadiums and their open dates.

Angel Stadium of Anaheim 1966
AT&T Park 2000
Busch Stadium 2006
Chase Field 1998
Citi Field 2009
Citizens Bank Park 2004
Comerica Park 2000
Coors Field 1995
Dodger Stadium 1962
Fenway Park 1912
Globe Life Park in Arlington 1994
Great American Ball Park 2003
Kauffman Stadium 1973
Marlins Park 2012
Miller Park 2001
Minute Maid Park 2000
Nationals Park 2008
O.Co. Coliseum 1966
Oriole Park at Camden Yards 1992
Petco Park 2004
PNC Park 2001
Progressive Field 1994
Rogers Centre 1989
Safeco Field 1999
Target Field 2010
Tropicana Field 1990
Turner Field 1996
U.S. Cellular Field 1991
Wrigley Field 1914
Yankee Stadium 2009

Giants and Braves reopening new stadiums in 2017.

There are only 6 stadiums in all of MLB that are older than Dudy Noble Field.
Angel Stadium - Built in 66. $100mil renovation in 1998.
Dodger Stadium - Built in 62. $100mil in current renovations ongoing. Janet Marie Smith
Fenway Park - Built in 12. $285mil in renovations over the past 10 years. Janet Marie Smith
Kauffman Stadium - Built in 73. $250mil in renovations in 2009.
O.Co. Coliseum - Built in 66. Mild renovations over time -- In search of a new Stadium.
Wrigley Field - Built in 14. $500mil in renovations ongoing.

So, basically everyone in baseball has either spent about as much money as building brand new -- or built brand new -- sans the Athletics in their shithole -- since we built an unmodified Dudy Noble Field...

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

Yep, like they "fixed" the Hump. Place doesn't have half the atmosphere it used to have. And that applied even before the program went to crap.

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Like Dudy Noble would never be the same -- But it's seemed awfully similar these last two years.

Just win. The people will come and the atmosphere will self-correct. Hate to tell people -- but more changes are coming to the Hump too. We're leaving too much money on the table with the current configuration...

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We're going to build a new stadium. For the life of me, I can't understand why this bothers people

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I don't understand it either. People act like we will ruin the atmosphere of the left field lounge if we build a new stadium.

Here is reality. The rigs are pulled up to the decking behind the wall. It takes two things to make this happen.

1. Decking
2. Ground

We ****ing have both of those. How hard is it to recreate that in our brand new stadium? You provide empty space and a deck. Hell, they might even flatten it out a little better and provide pavement for those who have trouble backing up.

Either way, the same rigs will be there with the same people standing on the same deck and pulling up on the same ground. The grandstand is the problem and we can start over without ruining your deck and your ground.

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Originally Posted by engie

Anyone that's been to a single game at Trustmark Park and still call Dudy Noble a "top venue" are of questionable intelligence. Sorry.

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Yep. The only thing DNF and TP have in common is a baseball diamond that is 90' square inside them. TP is as nice of a facility as you will watch a game in. Set TP down on the site where Polk-Dement is situated and we are in business. That is exactly what I want to see. Or some semblance thereof. Obviously it would not fit exactly but you see what I mean. 7500 nice chair back seats, wide open concourse, good outfield area. Perfect.

I don't think anyone is scared of a new grandstand or new bleachers. Everyone's just hoping the LFL "improvement" is actually that... an improvement.

Scott isn't going to screw up LFL... He fully knows the magnitude of any decisions he makes out there...

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Originally Posted by engie

Scott isn't going to screw up LFL... He fully knows the magnitude of any decisions he makes out there...

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I agree it's going to be fine. But some will argue w your definition of screw up. Because in some eyes if the old rigs don't stay as it is today then it's a screw up. And if that's a screw up, well, one's coming.

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Originally Posted by smootness

...The thing that makes State baseball special is the fans, and they aren't going anywhere. It isn't the stadium, it isn't the current structures in the LFL, it is the fans, plain and simple.

So if we have the ability to couple that with the best facility in the country, why not do it?

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The 'specialness' of LFL is an emergent, cultural thing. It wasn't planned or designed. If you could simply copy it, tons of teams would. We could redo basically everything in the stadium and leave LFL the same, and it's not a guarantee that LFL would be the same. I'm not saying I'm against a new stadium. I'm not informed enough to know. But I understand people worried about the LFL. I think it could easily be screwed up while 'fixing' it. It's just hard to know why it's so special. Again, if you could simply copy the structures and put good fans there and recreate it, it wouldn't be so special because there'd be a lot of them.

That said, I'd be very confident in the state grad that I think designed Camden yards, Autozone Park, and did the conversion of the Atlanta olympioc stadium. Can't remember her name, and I may be giving her credit for the wrong stadiums, but I remember her portfolio being damned impressive when I looked at it over ten years ago and the only two stadiums I had been to that she did I thought were great.

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Originally Posted by engie

Like Dudy Noble would never be the same -- But it's seemed awfully similar these last two years.

Just win. The people will come and the atmosphere will self-correct. Hate to tell people -- but more changes are coming to the Hump too. We're leaving too much money on the table with the current configuration...

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I'm specifically talking about hoping they don't screw up the atmosphere of LFL by tinkering with it too much. They DID kill the atmosphere in the Hump with the reseating a few years ago. Its never been the same. Now as far as the chairbacks and the bleachers do whatever you want. The chairbacks are NEVER filled and the bleachers are crap. Even over SBW the chairbacks weren't filled. In fact, the lifetime chairback contracts are THE #1 reason to demolish PDS and build a new grandstand. The bleachers were just a makeshift thing brought in after the stadium was built to accommodate more folks years ago. Certainly no foresight in "sightlines" are anything else related to the "bleacher experience".

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Originally Posted by engie

Saying "Dudy Noble is special" implies something totally different than "the people that make up LFL are special"... You implied that any changes out there will burst the bubble -- when in reality, it changes every single year anyway...

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I actually said there need to be some changes for safety and accessibility issues and said that they should add to the atmosphere out there by adding more general seating/box options.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

I don't think anyone is scared of a new grandstand or new bleachers. Everyone's just hoping the LFL "improvement" is actually that... an improvement.

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If Scott doesn't improve the LFL, we'll probably end up with an improvement at AD. Scott knows that too.

A lot of people kind of doubt him over the Rick Ray hire- but if he can make Dudy-Noble into something awesome I think he will win some people over.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We need a new stadium because we need more chair backs and to get rid of those awful bleachers.

Only thing LFL needs is to become more safe

Thats the bottom line

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"ding, ding, we have a winner"

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

The 'specialness' of LFL is an emergent, cultural thing. It wasn't planned or designed. If you could simply copy it, tons of teams would. We could redo basically everything in the stadium and leave LFL the same, and it's not a guarantee that LFL would be the same. I'm not saying I'm against a new stadium. I'm not informed enough to know. But I understand people worried about the LFL. I think it could easily be screwed up while 'fixing' it. It's just hard to know why it's so special. Again, if you could simply copy the structures and put good fans there and recreate it, it wouldn't be so special because there'd be a lot of them.

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This guy gets it. Let's do what we need to do but put the brakes on "full steam ahead" for a whole new stadium. Really, I do more or less have faith that there not gonna mess it with any more than they have to. I'm just expressing concern about the idea. It doesn't need to become "change for the sake of change," which is NEVER a good reason for change. An idea is planted and like tributaries flowing into a river it grows and grows and takes on a life of it's on and sooner rather than later it becomes "progress" and questions that need to be asked don't get asked because the parties involved got too busy wondering if they could make it happen. Then the thrill of "something new" or of "creation" takes over and project goes ahead full force and yet, was never truly thought out from all angles. I'm not saying that's where it seems to be headed. I just wanna make sure it doesn't.

There have been needs at DN for years, even while Coach Polk was here. No one is making change for change sake. They aren't making changes at all. This has been an extremely deliberate process.

As long as you can grill and drink in the OF- LFL will be "special"