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avg rating of 86 on 247. that's a mid-3* player. the only reason we are ranked high is because we are the only program on the list with 3 commits. rutgers is currently ranked 21st with a 79 avg rating for 2 guys, because a lot programs only have 1 2015 commit right now. i promise you a high 2* avg won't end up being ranked in the top 50 when it's all said and done. in other words, our 2015 class isn't that great.Quote:
Originally Posted by C222
I never said lets blame Stands.. I just said its strange and huge red flag that a kid from Mississippi with "issues" what ever they may be can find a way to make it Vegas, and not in Starkville...Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
there's a big difference between questioning ray and whether he's the man to lead us back to relevance and having already made up our mind on him. however, if we voice a negative opinion on him, we get attacked as being anti-ray and never giving him a chance, so obviously we are going to defend why we have valid doubts about ray, and suddenly we aren't giving him a chance. sorry, but i like to discuss msu sports, and when we are this ****ing shitty in a sport, there are going to be valid negative points to discuss. that doesn't mean we want ray to lose or that we've completely written him off, it means we just wonder if he's capable of turning it around and how long do we go before we explore other options and what is the best route for turning it around.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I didnt get Stands fired. He did that too himself. Take your bullshit somewhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman14
Ineffective ?? Just because he doesn't put daddy (Hood) on his payroll, doesn't mean he ineffective. He doesn't cheat at recruiting like other schools do. Daddy was heard telling some local high school coaches he was going to transfer his boy to a school where he would get his handout like he did when Stans was at MSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irondawg
for some reason duke and coach K don't strike me as the paying types.Quote:
Originally Posted by notsofarawaydawg
Don't know about others, but in this case you might be wrong...Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
You serious Clark?Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan, NC...they all have to work it to steal the 5-stars from each other. Ohio St just got busted not long ago...John Wooden at UCLA had people taking care of the program there...
exactly. No point in hiding it anymore. And that's why Gray chose to go somewhere else- he wasnt getting his "love" anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by notsofarawaydawg
And this is also why I keep hearing Ray is going to get 4 years-he is going to get the chance to build the program right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Stansbury did recruit his way to success. Won a lot of games. but could not get to a sweet 16 and knew that is where he needed to get to stay a fan favorite. But he failed to hire a top notch assistant with sharp X an O mind to help him take the next step and reaching that sweet 16. And apparently he did not have the right bench guy (was Kirby this guy) to keep the players motivated and inline. He failed himself. And his efforts to pull in the "big" recruit (Sidney for example) to help overcome his shortcomings, cost him and put the program his last two years in shambles and hard to watch. He took chances with kids with talent that others may have shied away from because it was good talent he needed to be successful. I believe Stansbury loved MSU and was a bulldog through and through. He took some risky chances with recruiting and it turned on him and the program and it was time to hit the reboot button.
By this point, MSU with a thin player base, was not a top option for potential coaches. Still got to be tough to recruit someone to live in Starkville if they are not from Mississippi. So enter Rick Ray. His close friends had to question his decision to take a chance with a down program in rural Mississippi. But it was the SEC and pay is great so he came. He was put in charge of seeing who wanted to stay and play and that is a tough spot to put someone in when they have had no previous HC experience. Run people off and you look like a hard ass. But the team had almost become high schoolish with the on and off court drama and so new rules had to be set. Consequently, possible recruits did not want to be part of a strict discipline to get things turned around when better options were available.
I dont know Rick Ray and would bet that most on here dont either. But listening to the man talk he appears to be a driven person with some basketball knowledge. Watching his teams play with Hustle and a never give up attitude shows that he is leading them and they are following. Losing lots of games certainly is tough to swallow. But it doesnt mean he and the team arent putting in the work. I pull for him and each kid that puts on the uniform to succeed. They have the look like they want to win for MSU. They are trying to rebuild the program from the ground up. That doesnt produce wins and will not make the trigger-happy video game minded fan happy but it means a hell of a lot to see the efforts they are putting forth.
So now Ray needs that special couple of recruits. He appears to have the workhorses. He just needs to recruit a pure shooter or two and get Ware some help. Are recruits ready to come to Starkville? Can Ray sell them on the postives of great fan support , good facilities and living in a small SEC town? After two years of putting his system in place, he is at the point that he is going to have to take a risk and make some promises to some good recruits that they can come in and be the star right away. Not an easy task.....promising the moon to the right kid who will fit your system and take you to the next level. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt....
Scudttlebutt is that State is getting ready to offer a '14 unrated, SG from Georgia. On the MSU staff, only George Brooks has seen him play and he has seen TWO games. The head coach has NOT even bothered to see the kid play.Quote:
Originally Posted by DownwardDawg
Compare that with Stanbury that was attending most of Jonathan Bender's Jr High, high school and AAU games; same with Monta Ellis; same with most of the high profile players that did or didn't end up at State.
NOBODY in the SEC spent more time on the road recruiting than Stans and his assistants ... nobody.
Newman tweeted out from AAU Tourney in Vegas back during the Summer that Rick Ray was the ONLY coach that stayed around to watch his final game.
Ray isn't lazy with Newman but he and his assistants need to be showing that kind of effort with other players too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
And how do you know they arent? The kid from Georgia was a late find because he played at a small school. That's why they have only seen him a couple of times. Teams have film now- there are other ways to see prospectsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
During his years under LT, Stans had to rely on boosters for help with everything except the bare essentials He built a very loyal base in doing that. I don't think anybody can argue that point..
Has Rick started a base such as that? Just curious?
Southwest Community had ZERO problems with Deville. ZERO and Im friends with their HC. He said that he worked hard at practice and went to class never had any trouble or problems with him whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by thf24
Sounds like the Croomesque death nail to the basketball program if you ask me. I assume we were doing things "right" in most of the 70s and 80s as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Then why did Stansbury run him off midseason in a position that he was sorely needed?Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthMsDawg
Then someone got him some help between the time he left us and arrived at Southwest. I'm not going into details and I'm not saying anything else on the subject, but the kid displayed some serious issues during his time in our program.Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthMsDawg
Man you just reminded me of the time when I bitched about Deville and our lack of a backup PG behind Dee Bost and everyone told me to chill that we'd be just fine. Then our basketball program died. Do you guys remember that? I do. Go pull up the SPS chats. Would be interesting to see now. Make sure you look at the ones of me warning everyone not to rush the basketball hire too.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
yeah well I can agree that you alone did not get Stands fired. but you certainly influenced many MSU fans against him. and at the end of the day, what happened was that we fired a winner who was one of if not the biggest winner in MSU basketball history and who was consistently putting teams on the floor that were at minimum bubble teams for the NCAAs. we won't see that again for many years, just as I predicted. we are the worst team in the SEC now, and this is the end of year 2. no such thing as 5 year plans in football, let alone basketball where you can turn a program around overnight with one great recruiting class. we went from being ranked 15th at one point the season Stands was fired and being a huge bubble team to now being the worst team in the SEC two years running with not one shred of positiveness going on in the basketball program.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
just own it. no need to get defensive. no one would have argued with you that we should have fired Stands if we could have hired Tom Izzo. The point is that we were incapable of hiring a true winner to replace him. he was an absolute blessing to MSU. we stayed around the top of the west, always, with Stands. Now we permanently reside at the bottom. but hey, those sorry basketball players sure are disciplined and playing hard, unlike Stands's bubble teams that won basketball games.
"It's just not Mississippi State baseball any more. This team will nevAr get back to where it was in the glory days! We're the worst program in the west -- and will be permanently near the bottom!!1!1"
It's funny that your crystal ball told you that Rick Stansbury is the only person that can win at MSU...
get it straight. I was in 110% with Cohen from day 1. It was an obvious hire, and he was always an obvious top coach. His record was pristine. He took UK to the SEC title and received numerous national accolades. He's a head coach winner wherever he goes.
crystal ball nothing. it's ignorance and immaturity when folks come on here and chastise the realists who are also optimists. Just because some people yearn to see MSU win doesn't mean they have to buy into some fantasy where MSU is going to ascend up the college basketball ranks to a top 10 program year in and year out. You don't fire a winner because he isn't winning enough. You wait until he stops winning, unless you are Duke basketball or Bammer football. It was easy to predict. You fire a winner, and odds are you aren't going to hire someone better. Drastic odds. Bammer, LSU, Auburn...all these teams have been trying to hire someone who could consistently win in a watered down league. It hasn't happened. It was a 10% shot in the dark. We would be trying to play our way into the tournament today (or perhaps better) if Stands was the coach, if for no other reason than Hood would be here and other damn good players. No thats not certainty; it's just realistic perspective judging from the past and from what Hood said at the time..and other recruits we had on board. Dammit it's so frustrating.
Stans did stop winning.
And no, we wouldn't have Hood.
Stands program started embarrassing the University. And to top it off, he let it slide so bad nobody wanted the job. That should tell you all you need to know. Coaches looked at our program that paid 1.5 million per season- and Stands got 14 years and never even made a Sweet 16- and they still didnt want it.
He turned it into a shit sandwich that everybody saw was going to have to be cleaned up. Thanks Stands
That shit sandwich still won 20 plus games his last year. I think that there is probably more embarrassment going around now about our program, than there ever was with Stansbury.
I wouldn't dare bring up our program now without making a joke about it.
Oh, forgot to add: If I hear "fight in the stands" one more time , I think I will puke...
What's so great about winning 20+ games when you lose 5 out of the last 7 to miss the NCAA tournament with three potential NBA players? That's embarrassing. It's your choice whether you want to be embarrassed about our current situation, or about the events that led to it (hint: those started long before Ray was hired).Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
See that's the problem.. If everyone enjoyed winning 19-20 games, underachieving, basically never getting to the Big Dance and when we do not making past round 2, and having issues every year with players then yes Stans is your guy...Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
Im not Saying RR is the answer, (like I said blame SS for the hire not RR) you cant tell me he isn't coaching his ass off .. Im sure he knows his time is running out and if he doesn't get it done next year or year 4 he is gone and he wont get another head gig for a long long time..
That's why next year is huge not only for our program to turn things around but for RR too. If we put up more W's next year make a push for the NIT and then year 4 the same , even if we decide to cut ties with RR it will be much easier for him to get a gig and for us to bring in a bigger name coach..
Both Resumes would look much better..
A) Stands wouldn't have won 20 with what he would have had last year. Last time he lost all 5 starters- he went 15-15. Gray, Sword, Smith, Zedakis, and Lewis as his starting 5 wasn't going to go very far.Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
B) I'll never be more embarrassed by our program than when Sidney walked up an down the court on national TV. Never. You can't respect anything about that. At the very least- our players play hard now. People can respect that at least
I'm so damn tired of hearing this lame-assed "embarrassing the university" and "dumpster fire" bullshit. We embarrassed ourselves by deciding that we don't believe in winning. We're totally embarrassed at this point. I've got an idea: let's take down all the banners Stans's teams earned and throw them on the dumpster fire. Get a clean start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Anybody around here that would enjoy winning 20? LOL!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mic
You guys are missing the point. Of course if the choice is winning 20 or winning 10-13, you'll take winning 20. But we made the move to ultimately move past the point of just winning 20 and missing the NCAA Tournament. By the time Stans left, we were where Ole Miss is now...a program that was competitive every year but no longer made the NCAA Tournament. If we weren't going to the NCAA Tournament with the talent Stans had his last year, then that was our new ceiling. That ceiling isn't good enough.
Obviously no one is 'happy' with the current number of wins we have. But we made the move to have a chance to eventually move past where we were because with Stans, we knew what we were getting - a decent team who probably would be incredibly frustrating to watch that would fall short by the end.
Of course it's a risk when you make that move. But it was still the right move, and we still don't know how it will play out. But I'll take a serious nosedive initially for the chance to ultimately be better over not making the Tournament and only being pretty good while being embarrassing to watch every single year.
Amazing that you say it was "the right move". That is incredibly speculative. Reminds me of flapper-era investing. How'd that work out?Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Did you just ignore what the rest of the country was saying about us between 2010 and 2012? The "bullshit" you speak of wasn't just coming from our more critical fans, it was coming from national news. ESPN referred to us as specifically a "dumpster fire" and Sporting News called us "the NCAA’s most dysfunctional program." I don't care how many games we were winning at the time. That kind of outside perception was unacceptable and a true embarrassment, and had it been allowed to continue it would have led us to exactly where we are now. The only difference would have been that we'd still have that perception, where as now we're clean from the outside view and have a chance to really improve next year now that the ship has had time to right.Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg
No, what I'm saying is that even if Ray falls on his face, making a change at HC was still the right move. With Stans, we know what the ceiling was - being pretty good and missing the NCAA Tournament or perhaps barely sneaking in. If that is good enough for you as the ceiling of the program, then fine. That's not good enough for the large majority of the fanbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg
Whether Ray was the right hire is a completely different discussion. But again, even if Ray falls on his face, the decision to remove Stans was the right one because it gave us a chance to improve our ceiling. Even if it doesn't work out in the immediate future, we will still have that chance. As long as Stans stayed, that ceiling wasn't going to budge.
The media slaughtering us is better than being forgotten -- as we currently are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Once again, we didn't make the move so we could not win games but at least be respected; we made the move so we could clean the program up SO THAT WE COULD TAKE THE NEXT STEP.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
It was never going to happen in 2 years, but that's the reason the change was made. We didn't make a decision between 20 embarrassing wins or 13 respected ones; we felt like the only way to ultimately get better was to make a move and have to fall down first. We still don't know if that will work out in the end.
amazing to me how people dont understand thisQuote:
Originally Posted by smootness