9 Game Losing Streak

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Originally Posted by dawgs

you have to see at least why some fans are questioning ray. you have to understand that right? i mean, even his most ardent supporters surely can understand why some people are getting fed up already and not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?

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I understand that there are a lot of people who are impatient and rush to make decisions without letting situations fully play themselves out. So it's not surprising. And I understand people questioning whether Ray will get it done.

What I don't understand is why anyone would honestly evaluate the situation and say, 'Ray isn't going to get it done, terrible hire'.

We knew the first two years were going to be really tough. Just because they in fact are tough doesn't mean we should change our feelings of the coach. Some people may not have understood what it was going to mean when they said, 'He'll have at least 3 years,' but saying that means that he won't be judged until year 3.

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Originally Posted by slickdawg

Ray has a pass with me this year. He needs players, biggest problem by far. I haven't seen us on CNN for fighting in the stands either.

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You watch CNN?

http://philadelphiariders.com/galler...f?m=1323592852

This team would be a lot better had we kept Josh Gray. He is tearing it up in JUCO and his highlight tape is nothing to laugh at. Also losing Andre Applewhite still makes no sense to me. Now that we aren't even playing Fred, I have to think he is at least wavering on transferring. This program isn't as sound as yall make it out to be.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

You watch CNN?

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I had headline news on the morning that TRS was fighting in the stands.

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Originally Posted by RICKRAYMADE

This team would be a lot better had we kept Josh Gray. He is tearing it up in JUCO and his highlight tape is nothing to laugh at. Also losing Andre Applewhite still makes no sense to me. Now that we aren't even playing Fred, I have to think he is at least wavering on transferring. This program isn't as sound as yall make it out to be.

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Gray leaving was apparently a mutual decision and not a sign that the program is in bad shape. He also left Texas Tech and committed to at least two different programs once in JUCO; he seems to be a headcase. Who knows on Applewhite, but basketball players often transfer. I have no reason to believe Fred Thomas is considering a transfer.

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Originally Posted by smootness

Who knows on Applewhite, but basketball players often transfer. I have no reason to believe Fred Thomas is considering a transfer.

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How many transfer mid-season while starting or getting solid bench minutes?

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Originally Posted by RICKRAYMADE

This team would be a lot better had we kept Josh Gray. He is tearing it up in JUCO and his highlight tape is nothing to laugh at. Also losing Andre Applewhite still makes no sense to me. Now that we aren't even playing Fred, I have to think he is at least wavering on transferring. This program isn't as sound as yall make it out to be.

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Josh Gray wanted to make sure he was still getting his "love" when the new coach was hired. Ray told his people "the love" wasnt an option anymore. Gray decided to go to TT. And not surprisingly- he left there after a not so stellar freshman year in which he shot the ball worse from 3 than Sword. And Sword cant shoot the 3.

I hate Applewhite left. Certainly hurt some.

Why would Fred be considering a transfer? Thats literally not been mentioned anywhere

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Originally Posted by Raytoraid83

How many transfer mid-season while starting or getting solid bench minutes?

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Ones that run their mouth when they shouldnt and are told by their coach to carry their ass somewhere else

If Ray doesn't learn to show some "love" then he won't have a job in the near future. This is the SEC not upward basketball.

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Originally Posted by dawgs

tom crean went to a final 4, 5 ncaa tourneys, and 3 NITs in 9 seasons at marquette before getting to indiana. he definitely had earned a bit more benefit of the doubt than a guy that's never been a HC and was never considered a top assistant before we hired him.

i'm not saying ray won't get at least 1 more year, and probably 2 more, but i am saying comparing him to someone like tom crean is a very, very poor comparison because crean had a good track record before taking the indiana job. kinda like the cohen comparisons you are hell bent on making in other threads.

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be careful, when you bring logic to this board vs obscure/one sided stats-you will get called nasty little names.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Tom Crean went 1-17 at Indiana his 1st season....and yes I know they were on probation- that's how our AD views our program with us having 1 player- ONE- leftover from the previous regime.

Ray gone get 4 years bruh

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This is year 2 and NO PROBATION

Apples and Oranges

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Originally Posted by SouthMsDawg

This is year 2 and NO PROBATION

Apples and Oranges

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Probation comes in all shapes and sizes and is not ONLY mandated by the NCAA. What Ray inherited was, indeed, probation.

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Originally Posted by Raytoraid83

How many transfer mid-season while starting or getting solid bench minutes?

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Great Question

I still can't figure this out unless Ray dog cussed Applewhite out all of the time or something to make him want to leave the program. What type of players leaves a team midway through the year when he is starting.

That is not going to happen ,that is not in Ray's DNA .Look at Pollard ,Gray ,other guard we release everyone transfer from the school they went too ,that might be called head cases . Shaun Smith and the Euro did not last at their schools either . I know I am proving C34 points but those are the facts.

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Originally Posted by RICKRAYMADE

If Ray doesn't learn to show some "love" then he won't have a job in the near future. This is the SEC not upward basketball.

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Originally Posted by engie

Probation comes in all shapes and sizes and is not ONLY mandated by the NCAA. What Ray inherited was, indeed, probation.

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Ray did't use his scholarships properly and tried to be Mr. Authority and swept out 3 good players, lost Hood to transfer, and essentially only signed Bortchert and Bloodman.

Carry on, yall can keep hyping up the Rick Ray experience, but I'm done with basketball until we hire a coach that has experience even if its as the HC or a JUCO or D2 schools. Look at Donnie Tyndall at USM and what he is doing. USM's last 2 hires have been coaches with Division 1 head coaching experience and both have paid dividends and helped them get their basketball program back on track.

Al, please don't make me pull the Cohen archives again...

"Mr Authority" = don't fail drug tests.

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Originally Posted by engie

Al, please don't make me pull the Cohen archives again...

"Mr Authority" = don't fail drug tests.

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Cohen had 10+ YEARS OF HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE

Ray ZERO

Thats my biggest argument.

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Originally Posted by SouthMsDawg

This is year 2 and NO PROBATION

Apples and Oranges

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Could probation be any worse than having literally 1 player- ONE- play for you from the previous regime? That's about as rough of sanctions as you can get.

And for the last time- Ray did not run those guys off- they were let go by the athletic department for failing drug tests per AD rules. Ray doesn't schedule drug tests for the athletes

Rick Ray is in so far over his head its unreal.

14 game losing streak to end this season and less than 2,000 warm bodies in the hump aint the way to end the year.

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Originally Posted by SouthMsDawg

Cohen had 10+ YEARS OF HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE

Ray ZERO

Thats my biggest argument.

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Yet you thought he was a total moron in year 2 and were ready to go another direction -- exactly as you currently are. Quit with the revisionist history...

Unlike Ray, Cohen proved he could beat the elite teams in our conference. LSU, Florida, South Carolina

When Ray beats somebody not named Auburn, Ole Miss, Georgia, or South Carolina let me know.

there's also a damn good argument about it being easier to turn around basketball than baseball just due to sheer numbers and being able to put your best player in a position to make the most impact. you can't bat your best player in baseball more than once every 9 ABs and you can't start your best SP more than every 5th day (once a week in college) and you can't pitch your best RP more than 1-2 innings a game, and even then, he'll probably need a few games off here and there. so to me, building a baseball team is going to be a longer, more arduous process than building a basketball team.

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Originally Posted by dawgs

you have to see at least why some fans are questioning ray. you have to understand that right? i mean, even his most ardent supporters surely can understand why some people are getting fed up already and not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?

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I don't understand why people are getting fed up, I can sort of understand why people aren't giving him the benefit of the doubt. Ray inherited a shitty situation. He was either going to have to be god's gift to coaching or get really lucky in recruiting for us to be good this year. He was neither. I'd be much happier if he were, but I'm not fed up with him.

As far as not giving him the benefit of the doubt, chances are, Ray's not going to be particularly successful, because most SEC basketball hires are not going to be particularly successful. Not sure why that is, but basically the only recent good hires have been Calipari, I guess Pearl if you count him, and Donovan if you consider him recent.

But basically the only thing that Ray has shown to concern me is not getting better, immediate help. If he was a coach that had been recruiting in this area for several years, I'd be very bothered by this. But since he hasn't, I don't think we can know anything yet. I think maybe that supports an argument that we made a mistake hiring a coach without any existing recruiting ins in our area, but I don't think we'll know whether he can cut it as a recruiter for another couple of years.

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Originally Posted by dawgs

there's also a damn good argument about it being easier to turn around basketball than baseball just due to sheer numbers and being able to put your best player in a position to make the most impact. you can't bat your best player in baseball more than once every 9 ABs and you can't start your best SP more than every 5th day (once a week in college) and you can't pitch your best RP more than 1-2 innings a game, and even then, he'll probably need a few games off here and there. so to me, building a baseball team is going to be a longer, more arduous process than building a basketball team.

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If you can get blue chip talent, yes. If you are not and you are starting from scratch, basketball is more like baseball. It takes a few years to bring in enough talent to fill out a team and to give them enough experience to be competitive.

Any total rebuild is going to take awhile- regardless of sport.

Baseball was a total rebuild- and it took until the 3rd season to start seeing results
Basketball has been a total rebuild- as only 1 player has remained from Stands team.

Football was not a total rebuild. Croom left Mullen some real talent in certain areas- but holes in others. Plus Mullen and his crew walked into a damn good recruiting class that they solidified when hired. Crooms problem were more about coaching and failure to recruit at the QB and WR positions.

Fans dont have patience- they see immediate results in different situations and expect theirs to be the same way. All rebuilds are not the same

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Originally Posted by Coach34

And dont give me the Hood shit- he was already out there door and had feelers out for transferring since February.

We'll learn what Ray is about the next 2 seasons

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Overlooked this, no one really knows the Hood story but a lot of people did know as soon as Stansbury was gone the wrong hire was gonna make it real hard for him to stay. I don't blame him for leaving a program with an unknown coach and one quoted as saying "We want Hood to command double teams." What potential lottery pick wants to hear they are gonna basically be a decoy for the next year?

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Originally Posted by Raytoraid83

...one quoted as saying "We want Hood to command double teams." What potential lottery pick wants to hear they are gonna basically be a decoy for the next year?

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That is not what it means to 'command double teams.' If you are commanding double teams, the offense is generally going to be run through you.

Hood was never coming back. He's at DUKE. I will not be surprised one bit when he gets drafted he buys his momma a house and never steps foot back in Mississippi again.

What do you expect when you hire some Coach, that his claim to fame, was he was an asst Coach on a shitty Clemson team that went something like 22-29 in His years there. Coach and His apostles can keep bashing Stansbury and pumping up Ray, but when the Hump is empty and the Losses keep piling Up, Ray will go down like the Titanic.

they see you rollin'.......you hatin'.........

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

they see you rollin'.......you hatin'.........

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Hatin',taking that ass whipping every game .

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

What do you expect when you hire some Coach, that his claim to fame, was he was an asst Coach on a shitty Clemson team that went something like 22-29 in His years there. Coach and His apostles can keep bashing Stansbury and pumping up Ray, but when the Hump is empty and the Losses keep piling Up, Ray will go down like the Titanic.

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It's posts like this that make it impossible for me to take you seriously. You're being no fairer to Ray than Coach is to Stans.

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Originally Posted by smootness

It's posts like this that make it impossible for me to take you seriously. You're being no fairer to Ray than Coach is to Stans.

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What did I say that you disagree with?

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I do like new S&C work we put in

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Ndoye came in at 6-11 216 and really, really needed some S&C work; Daniels joined at 6-8, 205 and needed some bulk.

What have they done? How have they improved?

We need some work; you may some improvement in the O but I see a team that can't get position, set a screen or block out on O or D. The only reason we get a few O rebounds is that we get more chances at 'misses' than most teams.

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Originally Posted by BiscuitEater

Ndoye came in at 6-11 216 and really, really needed some S&C work; Daniels joined at 6-8, 205 and needed some bulk.

What have they done? How have they improved?

We need some work; you may some improvement in the O but I see a team that can't get position, set a screen or block out on O or D. The only reason we get a few O rebounds is that we get more chances at 'misses' than most teams.

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FTF has gained nearly 20 lbs since arriving on campus. Ware has lost at least 25 pounds...I'm sure N'Doye and Daniels are getting what they need as well. S&C is no longer a players decision as it was under Stands- but a requirement. No more days of players like Marckell Patterson, Renardo Sidney, or Rayvern Johnson telling the Strength coach he isnt working out. Our HC wouldnt say "get your fatass back in that weightroom and do what he tells you" like he should have done with Sidney. He instead begged him to do P90X with him to get him to do something. You wont be seeing that shit ever again.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

FTF has gained nearly 20 lbs since arriving on campus. Ware has lost at least 25 pounds...I'm sure N'Doye and Daniels are getting what they need as well. S&C is no longer a players decision as it was under Stands- but a requirement. No more days of players like Marckell Patterson, Renardo Sidney, or Rayvern Johnson telling the Strength coach he isnt working out. Our HC wouldnt say "get your fatass back in that weightroom and do what he tells you" like he should have done with Sidney. He instead begged him to do P90X with him to get him to do something. You wont be seeing that shit ever again.

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Fred gained twenty pounds and lost His jump-shot. please go get another Patterson and Ravern, they could not pump iron but they could shoot that ****ing basketball

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

Fred gained twenty pounds and lost His jump-shot. please go get another Patterson and Ravern, they could not pump iron but they could shoot that ****ing basketball

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Not sure why but Ray hasn't extended an offer to Troutman yet. Even after his visit. Are we in play for some other shooters?

i never remember patterson being an character problem and he was a key player on stans' 2nd best team (01-02).

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Not sure why but Ray hasn't extended an offer to Troutman yet. Even after his visit. Are we in play for some other shooters?

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New Hampshire might look better to HIm****