Rebels make the news again

Wow, that's a damn good article.

“If you bill yourself as Ole Miss and you call yourself the Rebels and the first thing a visitor to the campus sees is a Confederate monument, whether intentionally or not, it conveys an image,” said Charles W. Eagles, a history professor. “And that image is an image tied to the past, not a 21st-century image.”

Professor Eagles, who wrote what many here believe is the definitive account of the university’s integration, argued that the university must take more forceful action that could anger its supporters.

“If I could do one thing, the place would never be called Ole Miss again,” he said.

Here's another quote I found interesting because it's the opposite of "OUR STATE".
“We don’t take ownership of this university,” Jonece Dunigan, a senior, said. “My life is kind of centered around work and going to school and studying until like 3 in the morning. The reason why these things happen again and again and again is because we allow them to happen again and again and again.”

Ms. Dunigan, who is black, added, “Once the students step up and take ownership of the university and say, ‘This is our place, this is what we stand for,’ we can actually start making progress.”

I know that racism exists all over but there seems to be a culture on that campus and in Oxford that makes people like the statue defacers feel comfortable. It doesn't matter if these particular students are from Georgia, they are Ole Miss students. They represent the Rebels. There may be a minority of people associated with the university that want to eliminate this culture but I feel that most of them want to continue to embrace this culture.

One word: PROFOUND

I just hope the outrage from people is genuine and aren't only bringing this attention because it's ole miss. And this is not a troll attempt, but if the Confederate monument conveys an image, will Civil War parks and monuments be targeted for removal as well?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX

I just hope the outrage from people is genuine and aren't only bringing this attention because it's ole miss. And this is not a troll attempt, but if the Confederate monument conveys an image, will Civil War parks and monuments be targeted for removal as well?

---

I don't believe so because they are National parks and monuments. Ole Miss is not a National Park nor a monument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catdawg

Wow, that's a damn good article.

“If you bill yourself as Ole Miss and you call yourself the Rebels and the first thing a visitor to the campus sees is a Confederate monument, whether intentionally or not, it conveys an image,” said Charles W. Eagles, a history professor. “And that image is an image tied to the past, not a 21st-century image.”

Professor Eagles, who wrote what many here believe is the definitive account of the university’s integration, argued that the university must take more forceful action that could anger its supporters.

“If I could do one thing, the place would never be called Ole Miss again,” he said.

Here's another quote I found interesting because it's the opposite of "OUR STATE".
“We don’t take ownership of this university,” Jonece Dunigan, a senior, said. “My life is kind of centered around work and going to school and studying until like 3 in the morning. The reason why these things happen again and again and again is because we allow them to happen again and again and again.”

Ms. Dunigan, who is black, added, “Once the students step up and take ownership of the university and say, ‘This is our place, this is what we stand for,’ we can actually start making progress.”

---

they are literally the last remaining stain of racism on the state of Mississippi.

Exactly. And all of those parks and monuments usually have an adjacent display giving honor to the fallen union soldiers. Where is that on Ole Miss' campus? Oh thats right.....the Yanks are the bad guys.....

Old times there are not forgotten. Look away!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LC Dawg

I know that racism exists all over but there seems to be a culture on that campus and in Oxford that makes people like the statue defacers feel comfortable. It doesn't matter if these particular students are from Georgia, they are Ole Miss students. They represent the Rebels. There may be a minority of people associated with the university that want to eliminate this culture but I feel that most of them want to continue to embrace this culture.

---

I don't know if they embrace the culture necessarily... They know they will lose a lot of traditions, and I think it "scares" most them. I know a bunch of OM people(as most of us who live in MS do), and they're all good people for the most part. They love "ole miss" and "rebels" and they don't want to lose their identity. Even though that same identity is what hurts them AND the state of MS so much... It's hard for them to fight events like this, because they're essentially fighting traditions/names/mascots they want to keep... My brother/mom are OM grads, and they're truly embarrassed by this kind of stuff... They should be, hopefully enough fans like them decide to force real change.

They are truly the best example of someone being their own worst enemy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRef

I don't believe so because they are National parks and monuments. Ole Miss is not a National Park nor a monument.

---

So, other than the gov't sticking a label on it as a "national monument", there isn't much difference. Wouldn't a confederate monument be viewed the same, regardless of where it sits?
ETA: Isn't the statue sitting on University grounds that is state owned?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Exactly. And all of those parks and monuments usually have an adjacent display giving honor to the fallen union soldiers.

---

Uh, no...most of the time the confederates and yanks had different lines and the monuments reflect that. Hell, I know one park like the back of my hand and it has signs that say entering Union lines or entering Confederate lines and throughout those areas, there won't be much, if any crossover.

But that's what I'm talking about. Marking the army's lines is just part of the "history" of the battle, showing how it took place, where everyone was, where each excursion happened, etc.. Ultimately, at Vicksburg, Gettysburg, Shiloh, etc. both Confederate and Union soldiers are well represented.



Edit: instead of talking about monuments and parks, lets just be frank about where this is going? What exactly are you trying to convey?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jimbo352

I don't know if they embrace the culture necessarily... They know they will lose a lot of traditions, and I think it "scares" most them. I know a bunch of OM people(as most of us who live in MS do), and they're all good people for the most part. They love "ole miss" and "rebels" and they don't want to lose their identity. Even though that same identity is what hurts them AND the state of MS so much... It's hard for them to fight events like this, because they're essentially fighting traditions/names/mascots they want to keep... My brother/mom are OM grads, and they're truly embarrassed by this kind of stuff... They should be, hopefully enough fans like them decide to force real change.

They are truly the best example of someone being their own worst enemy.

---

Maybe I should have said they continue to embrace traditions that are associated with this culture. I don't think most Ole Miss fans/grads agree with the events that have occurred recently but I do think that a majority of them want to keep some traditions that are associated with them. It wasn't but a few years ago that their chancellor had the band quit playing "From Dixie with Love" because the students wouldn't quit yelling, at his request, "the South will rise again". I may be the most racially sensitive person in the world but if I'm wearing a shirt that contains words like rebel, dixie, confederate, or pictures of a confederate colonel or a confederate flag then people will form an opinion of me based on those words and symbols. Whether Ole Miss people like it or not they are going to be associated with unpopular views until they completely disassociate from some more of their traditions and symbols.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

But that's what I'm talking about. Showing the army's lines is just "history", showing how the battle took place. At Vicksburg, Gettysburg, Shiloh, etc. both Confederate and Union soldiers are well represented.

---

They're not just showing lines, they've got monuments throughout these spaces and in the confederate side there are statues of military leaders. Do those confederate statues of military leaders not drum up the same emotions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LC Dawg

I may be the most racially sensitive person in the world but if I'm wearing a shirt that contains words like rebel, dixie, confederate, or pictures of a confederate colonel or a confederate flag then people will form an opinion of me based on those words and symbols. Whether Ole Miss people like it or not they are going to be associated with unpopular views until they completely disassociate from some more of their traditions and symbols.

---

Well freakin' said, LC.

There were a couple of my black classmates in high school who went to Ole Miss and I always asked them why they would want to go there and the racism and history of it had a lot to do with it. There are always going to be black kids at Ole Miss no matter what kind of dumb shit they do and in actuality I'm glad. Can you imagine an all white Ole Miss?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LC Dawg

I know that racism exists all over but there seems to be a culture on that campus and in Oxford that makes people like the statue defacers feel comfortable. It doesn't matter if these particular students are from Georgia, they are Ole Miss students. They represent the Rebels. There may be a minority of people associated with the university that want to eliminate this culture but I feel that most of them want to continue to embrace this culture.

---

When I was mixing it up with Rebs on Rivals just after the, "Crunchy Mike" episode, they were saying stuff like, "That's just one guy. He doesn't represent the true culture at Ole Miss". To this I replied that the thing that was telling to me wasn't that an OM student was shouting racial slurs like, "F those ******s", but that he was absolutely comfortable shouting it in their precious, popular Grove during a tailgate on game day, and that nobody felt the need to confront or admonish him at the time. To me, the fact that he could do that with little-to-no-fear of being confronted was indicative of the level of intolerance and racism that still exists there. No, I don't think most of the students there are blatantly racist, but I do think a high enough % are as to make it a real problem they continue to have, yet deny.

I think it's also likely another huge % of them care far more about their traditions than they do about fixing the problem.

How does any of this relate to Ole Miss calling themselves the Rebels, wearing "confederate greys", etc.? They are using these images as a point of pride, not harrowing remembrance. That's the difference.

When you visit a park like Gettysburg, the purpose there is to educate people as to the immense loss of life and how that battle was a monumental turning point in the war. The same for WWII parks and monuments in Europe.

What are we not comprehending here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LC Dawg

Maybe I should have said they continue to embrace traditions that are associated with this culture. I don't think most Ole Miss fans/grads agree with the events that have occurred recently but I do think that a majority of them want to keep some traditions that are associated with them. It wasn't but a few years ago that their chancellor had the band quit playing "From Dixie with Love" because the students wouldn't quit yelling, at his request, "the South will rise again". I may be the most racially sensitive person in the world but if I'm wearing a shirt that contains words like rebel, dixie, confederate, or pictures of a confederate colonel or a confederate flag then people will form an opinion of me based on those words and symbols. Whether Ole Miss people like it or not they are going to be associated with unpopular views until they completely disassociate from some more of their traditions and symbols.

---

Spot on. My mom was proud to be a black bear... I gave her hell, as any good bulldog should, but she never wavered. I was proud of her. It will take more fans like her to change the culture in Oxford. It's a double edge sword... It helps us in recruiting, and that's great... But I feel bad as a Mississippian.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by esplanade91

There were a couple of my black classmates in high school who went to Ole Miss and I always asked them why they would want to go there and the racism and history of it had a lot to do with it. There are always going to be black kids at Ole Miss no matter what kind of dumb shit they do and in actuality I'm glad. Can you imagine an all white Ole Miss?

---

WTF?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

How does any of this relate to Ole Miss calling themselves the Rebels, wearing "confederate greys", etc.? They are using these images as a point of pride, not harrowing remembrance. That's the difference.

When you visit a park like Gettysburg, the purpose there is to educate people as to the immense loss of life and how that battle was a monumental turning point in the war. The same for WWII parks and monuments in Europe.

What are we not comprehending here?

---

I was about to post the same thing. There are lots of WWII parks and monuments all over Europe, but you don't see old Nazi statues at the entrances of colleges in Germany.

It's all about context- there are times and places to have Confederate war monuments (ie, museums, parks, etc.), but the entrance of a progressive, public university is not one of them.

Boom! Precisely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero

It's all about context- there are times and places to have Confederate war monuments (ie, museums, parks, etc.), but the entrance of a progressive, public university is not one of them.

---

Fair enough...I went and looked the pic of the statue and it's nothing different than you would find in a civil war park. It's a monument to those Mississippians who were from that area and that died fighting in the civil war. There's nothing that screams racism other than it having the word confederate on it. Now we can argue all day about why the civil war was fought, but I don't think we have time for that haha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX

Fair enough...I went and looked the pic of the statue and it's nothing different than you would find in a civil war park. It's a monument to those Mississippians who were from that area and that died fighting in the civil war. There's nothing that screams racism other than it having the word confederate on it. Now we can argue all day about why the civil war was fought, but I don't think we have time for that haha.

---

Right, and I'm sure there are no intended racial undertones behind the statue being there (at least not today)- but the fact of the matter is that a significant percentage of people that attend your university feel very uncomfortable with it being there.

At the end of the day, you shouldn't just alienate an entire race (thousands of people) at a school over something like a statue. Just like you shouldn't alienate those same people by naming one of your streets "Confederate Drive." Or by naming your sports teams the "Rebels."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LC Dawg

I may be the most racially sensitive person in the world but if I'm wearing a shirt that contains words like rebel, dixie, confederate, or pictures of a confederate colonel or a confederate flag then people will form an opinion of me based on those words and symbols. Whether Ole Miss people like it or not they are going to be associated with unpopular views until they completely disassociate from some more of their traditions and symbols.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Well freakin' said, LC.

---

I have to laugh at the irony here... You're agreeing that associating with or wearing certain symbols could give people a negative impression/opinion of you... While also having a disgustingly racist character, who had slaves fight to the death, in your avatar...

You have to admit that it's pretty funny...

Uh....damnit....you got me, I'm Calvin Candy incarnate*** :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Uh....damnit....you got me, I'm Calvin Candy incarnate*** :o

---

I KNEW IT!!!!

Come back later. After dinner we're serving Wwwwhite cake***