You are Sean Rawlings

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Originally Posted by smootness

So you consider yourself a liar if you don't tell your current employer you're interviewing elsewhere? This is how the game is played, and everyone, on both sides, understands the game.

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I have almost 35 years with a company... a better offer popped up, and I start my new job next week. I truly believe the Rawlings were committed to MSU and are thankful for the opportunity, until the "dream" offer came up... I can identify...

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Originally Posted by smootness

Haha. I seriously doubt that. Because you know as soon as they know you're looking, they're going to try to fill your spot. But it's even different.

Tell me this...when you go for an interview, do you show the employer a list of companies and where they fall on your list? Because that's what you're asking Rawlings to do...to say, hey, please hire me...but you're not first on my list and if this other company offers, I'm gone. Because in that scenario our coaches would have gone after someone else.

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No Im not... Its not the same scenario... I am asking people to commit when they are ready to commit but once they commit to follow through with what they say they are going to do... A more realistic scenario in the job world would be for me to accept a job and tell them I will be there at whatever date. The employer then calls all other applicants and tells them the position is filled. Then after whatever amount of time I call back employer and tell them nevermind another company offered me a job and we were in negotiations the whole time... Dont worry employer you can figure it out and this is how the game is played.

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Originally Posted by Ennis Del Mar

Ive done the same. I got a raise when I did it.

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Then you can't compare that to Rawlings. We offered him everything we could offer. You knew that your company still had the opportunity to keep you, so it wasn't a 'if they offer I'm gone'. Or if you did tell them that, then accepted a raise, then you lied for the purpose of getting more money from them.

And we don't know what they told the coaches. They could have been 100% honest with the coaches. But we're all mad b/c of what they told US, which again, WAS NEVER A LIE. So we expect Rawlings to be forthcoming with every scenario just so we can sleep better at night knowing that a kid's decision that doesn't affect us in any material way is set in stone?

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Originally Posted by BeastMan

The dad started zero drama. The only drama was that OM offered an MSU commit late in the process. How did the dad start that drama? There is a major difference in what Mr Rawlings and what Mz Terry did. Like not even close.

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Agree to disagree...out of all the prospects that we recruit, how many have started posting on a MSU message board? Words like "committed to state" and "all dawg" do not help the situation at all. No one asked him to start posting, he did it on his own.

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Originally Posted by thedawg

No Im not... Its not the same scenario... I am asking people to commit when they are ready to commit but once they commit to follow through with what they say they are going to do... A more realistic scenario in the job world would be for me to accept a job and tell them I will be there at whatever date. The employer then calls all other applicants and tells them the position is filled. Then after whatever amount of time I call back employer and tell them nevermind another company offered me a job and we were in negotiations the whole time... Dont worry employer you can figure it out and this is how the game is played.

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And that's what happens all the time.

Again, you're telling me that if you interview with one employer and they offer you a job, you tell them to hold on b/c you may have another offer, knowing the whole time if you tell them that, they'll offer someone else and you may be left with nothing?

Let me ask you this...at your job, have you ever once discussed something that was in the plans for a couple years down the road, in language that would suggest you'll still be there then, knowing you may at some point look elsewhere and won't actually be there two years down the road? Because unless you made sure to tell them, 'Hang on, I don't know what could happen. Nothing is in the works now, but I could receive another offer by then,' then according to your standard, you're a liar.

NM

I want it to be known... Im not mad and crying about this deal... I understand better than most how this game works... I also hate every second of it... I was simply displaying my hatred from where we are as a society... Alot of you have only further proved my point for me... Our society tells us that you can lie if it betters you... You can lie when things get tough.. In the business world and in the recruiting world... Who can you trust? Coaches pull offers all the time. Kids lie like hell way worse than Rawlings did. I wish as a rule people would do what they say they are going to and follow through when they tell someone they will. Either way it is what it is. No matter what I think or dont think coaches are still gonna offer kids and drop them. Kids are still gonna drop schools and decommit and recommit and decommit and hold press conferences because they are recommitting to the same school. Im done with it.... Best of luck Mr Rawlings

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Originally Posted by smootness

And that's what happens all the time.

Again, you're telling me that if you interview with one employer and they offer you a job, you tell them to hold on b/c you may have another offer, knowing the whole time if you tell them that, they'll offer someone else and you may be left with nothing?

Let me ask you this...at your job, have you ever once discussed something that was in the plans for a couple years down the road, in language that would suggest you'll still be there then, knowing you may at some point look elsewhere and won't actually be there two years down the road? Because unless you made sure to tell them, 'Hang on, I don't know what could happen. Nothing is in the works now, but I could receive another offer by then,' then according to your standard, you're a liar.

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Dude there is no way your going to paint me as a liar... Ill tell you more than I wanted to tell you.. I am in coaching... We have a really strong Freshman class. I told my head coach just last week... I am here to see the 9th graders through.. After they graduate it will be a year to year deal for me because I want to move up.. I told him that verbatim.. He was cool with it. I got a call Monday and asked to come interview for a job. I turned down the opportunity mostly because I dont want to move and secondly because I am really committed to seeing this group through... I told my head coach about the conversation with the other school Monday.. Im sorry you dont operate that way.. I do.. lets call it a difference of opinion

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Originally Posted by thedawg

Dude there is no way your going to paint me as a liar... Ill tell you more than I wanted to tell you.. I am in coaching... We have a really strong Freshman class. I told my head coach just last week... I am here to see the 9th graders through.. After they graduate it will be a year to year deal for me because I want to move up.. I told him that verbatim.. He was cool with it. I got a call Monday and asked to come interview for a job. I turned down the opportunity mostly because I dont want to move and secondly because I am really committed to seeing this group through... I told my head coach about the conversation with the other school Monday.. Im sorry you dont operate that way.. I do.. lets call it a difference of opinion

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I'm still just waiting for you to answer the question you keep ducking - are Fred Ross and everyone else that we have playing for us who were once committed elsewhere also liars?

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Originally Posted by thedawg

I want it to be known... Im not mad and crying about this deal... I understand better than most how this game works... I also hate every second of it... I was simply displaying my hatred from where we are as a society... Alot of you have only further proved my point for me... Our society tells us that you can lie if it betters you... You can lie when things get tough.. In the business world and in the recruiting world... Who can you trust? Coaches pull offers all the time. Kids lie like hell way worse than Rawlings did. I wish as a rule people would do what they say they are going to and follow through when they tell someone they will. Either way it is what it is. No matter what I think or dont think coaches are still gonna offer kids and drop them. Kids are still gonna drop schools and decommit and recommit and decommit and hold press conferences because they are recommitting to the same school. Im done with it.... Best of luck Mr Rawlings

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I get what you're saying, but again, we have no idea what they told our coaches. They may have been 100% honest so it's a bit presumptuous to claim they lied to begin with.

And if the game is played in such a way that EVERYONE understands a 'commitment' is not necessarily a true commitment, then is it lying anyway? Again, they said, 'right now, I'm committed to State', which was true...they just publicly left out the, 'but that will change if Ole Miss offers'.

Again, it would be like you telling your employer what you planned to do 3 months out and being honest in that plan, then letting them know a month later something else came along and you won't be able to do the project that was planned.

And it's difficult for you to speak on this b/c apparently in your line of work being 100% honest at all times doesn't hurt you and in fact helps. To me, there is a clear difference about not being forthcoming about absolutely every possible scenario, and clearly saying something you know isn't true. I put the Rawlings in the former category.

Im not ducking it.. In their recruitment they lied

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Originally Posted by thedawg

Dude there is no way your going to paint me as a liar... Ill tell you more than I wanted to tell you.. I am in coaching... We have a really strong Freshman class. I told my head coach just last week... I am here to see the 9th graders through.. After they graduate it will be a year to year deal for me because I want to move up.. I told him that verbatim.. He was cool with it. I got a call Monday and asked to come interview for a job. I turned down the opportunity mostly because I dont want to move and secondly because I am really committed to seeing this group through... I told my head coach about the conversation with the other school Monday.. Im sorry you dont operate that way.. I do.. lets call it a difference of opinion

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As long as under no circumstances would you ever consider leaving before that group graduated, then touche. Let me ask you this...if you got an offer to suddenly be a coach on the D1 level, would you consider it? Or if your parent became really sick and you needed to move to help them before they graduated, would you do it?

Sean did no less than what a huge % of recruits do every year, and that is, changed his mind. And since schools often change their minds, it's perfectly fine for kids to do so, unless there was some additional side-agreement, like, "We'll guarantee you a spot right now if, and only if, your commitment is 100% solid and you won't accept any other offer.", or if it's so late in the process that it screws over the team that offered you.

Personally, if the school I grew up loving knew I was a legit SEC talent, but waited until the last minute to offer, and only after I'd committed to the rival, I'd have told them to pound salt, and would mark that game on my calendar every year as a day to make them regret. Once I committed, my loyalty would belong to my school, not my former favorite. I guess I'd consider it a point of pride, honor & integrity. But that's me, and I'm different from most.

I truly believe that, as much as I hate Ole Miss, if they'd shown me the love & respect that comes with an early offer, especially with them knowing I was a State fan, and I gave MSU plenty of time to counter, but they waited this long, I'd have embraced OM as my team. Actions speak louder than words, and for me, that would have trumped my childhood fantasies.

But again, I'm not upset with his decision. We all have to do what we think is best for us. I do think he'd have had an opportunity to develop more here than he will there, but he either doesn't see it that way, or is still immature enough to put his childhood loyalties ahead of his potential future.

In the end, he seems like a nice kid from a nice family. I wish him luck in every game except one every year.

As a kid, I would've done the same thing had roles been reversed.

As a parent, I'd let my kid make the decisions as to where he wants to be the next 4-5 years.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

As a kid, I would've done the same thing had roles been reversed.

As a parent, I'd let my kid make the decisions as to where he wants to be the next 4-5 years.

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Bingo. Further, as fans there are multiple guys we are trying to flip right now and no one is questioning what their commitment means and how it reflects on their character.

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Originally Posted by smootness

I get what you're saying, but again, we have no idea what they told our coaches. They may have been 100% honest so it's a bit presumptuous to claim they lied to begin with.

And if the game is played in such a way that EVERYONE understands a 'commitment' is not necessarily a true commitment, then is it lying anyway? Again, they said, 'right now, I'm committed to State', which was true...they just publicly left out the, 'but that will change if Ole Miss offers'.

Again, it would be like you telling your employer what you planned to do 3 months out and being honest in that plan, then letting them know a month later something else came along and you won't be able to do the project that was planned.

And it's difficult for you to speak on this b/c apparently in your line of work being 100% honest at all times doesn't hurt you and in fact helps. To me, there is a clear difference about not being forthcoming about absolutely every possible scenario, and clearly saying something you know isn't true. I put the Rawlings in the former category.

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I do agree with you on one point... none of us have any idea what Rawlings told our coaches... So if in fact he did tell them "I want to come to Mississippi State but if Ole Miss offers that could change things." I would go on record as apologizing for calling them liars.

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Originally Posted by BeastMan

That's assumption based. OM passed on Rawlings. They told him no thanks. MSU liked him at camp. We offered and he took his only SEC offer. Nothing about that is weird or out of the ordinary. OM missed on a ton of higher profile OL and decided to offer him. That simple. Did his MSU offer force and OM offer as opposed to getting him to walk-on? Probably. That is completely different than maliciously using MSU for leverage which I think he or his family in no way did.

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I didn't say there was anything malicious. In fact, I included that I didn't think there was in this case in an article yesterday.

But if Rawlings wanted to go to OM from day 1, then he accepted his offer to MSU as a safety. It's just like a student who doesn't get accepted to a certain college on their early acceptance app but finds another school they would like to go to in case it doesn't work out again with their top choice.

I also wrote this on Monday - I think State should wait to offer these type of prospects. There's no need to be the first SEC offer all the time. We know he would have flipped to us from la tech or wherever in Jan. and I bet he's still a 2 star without an SEC offer. And if we don't have an offer until late I bet OM never offers by NSD.

the only thing I will give them credit on is the fact that they did it this week and not wait until the day before signing day or on signing day. I just kind of wondered if Ole Miss did not try to get them to do that.

This is the problem I have with these verbal commits. If you're not 100% sure you want to play for that school, don't try to force another school into offering you by committing to a school you have no desire to play for. If his school of choice all along was Ole Miss, he should have been pissed off it took State to offer just to get his offer at Ole Miss. If it was me and my kid, I'd have told them to get ****ed. Or, if you really wanted that offer, don't commit anywhere til you are 100% convinced. If you lose your spot and end up at a Sun Belt or CUSA school, you're still getting to play college ball and a free education.

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

the only thing I will give them credit on is the fact that they did it this week and not wait until the day before signing day or on signing day. I just kind of wondered if Ole Miss did not try to get them to do that.

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Rawlings was waiting till tomorrow to decide what he knew immediately. We didn't allow him and OM to string us out

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

As a kid, I would've done the same thing had roles been reversed.

As a parent, I'd let my kid make the decisions as to where he wants to be the next 4-5 years.

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As a kid, no way I could commit to a school unless I knew it's where I 100% wanted to go.

As a parent, I tell my kid the same. If you are sure, commit. If not, wait it out. If State wants you now, they will want you in February.

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Originally Posted by beerfarley

This is the problem I have with these verbal commits. If you're not 100% sure you want to play for that school, don't try to force another school into offering you by committing to a school you have no desire to play for. If his school of choice all along was Ole Miss, he should have been pissed off it took State to offer just to get his offer at Ole Miss. If it was me and my kid, I'd have told them to get ****ed. Or, if you really wanted that offer, don't commit anywhere til you are 100% convinced. If you lose your spot and end up at a Sun Belt or CUSA school, you're still getting to play college ball and a free education.

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Amen

I don't think you can handle it any better than what the Rawlings did. Came across as good folks to me. There may be hope for the Ole Miss faithful after all.

Looks like I'm late to the party but can someone post a link to where his dad was on message boards? I never saw that.

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Originally Posted by Ennis Del Mar

What do you do? Me personally, my father would have never allowed me to commit and not honor it. Just how I was raised. My father loathes ole miss but he would have never allowed me to back out of my commitment. I figured the Rawlings were the same type of people. Guess not.

What would you do? No judgment either way.

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Lets take Ole Miss out of the equation.

Hypothetically...you are a HS senior right now...and you commit to Southern Miss, because at the time, that is your best available offer. Ok, Southern sucks right now, but a free education is a free education.

Now, late in the process, State comes calling and offers.

You tellin me your father would make you honor your commitment to Southern...he would encourage you to not attend your dream school, the school that you grew up cheering for?

C'mon Son

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Rawlings was waiting till tomorrow to decide what he knew immediately. We didn't allow him and OM to string us out

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They could have asked him not to say anything about the offer and just do it the day before signning day.

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Originally Posted by CousinEddie

Lets take Ole Miss out of the equation.

Hypothetically...you are a HS senior right now...and you commit to Southern Miss, because at the time, that is your best available offer. Ok, Southern sucks right now, but a free education is a free education.

Now, late in the process, State comes calling and offers.

You tellin me your father would make you honor your commitment to Southern...he would encourage you to not attend your dream school, the school that you grew up cheering for?

C'mon Son

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See Damian Williams recruitment

In the ideal world, you make an objective decision and realize that you are likely going to have the best development and opportunity at a program that identified you early in the process and placed an emphasis on you. Fighting the stigma of backup plan isn't ideal.

But, I understand the emotional side to it as well and understand how you get to that decision. Sometimes, you just picture yourself in those school colors regardless of how you end up there. If you truly want to be some place and you don't pursue it when given the opportunity, you will end up regretting it and becoming bitter with your choice.

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Originally Posted by CousinEddie

Lets take Ole Miss out of the equation.

Hypothetically...you are a HS senior right now...and you commit to Southern Miss, because at the time, that is your best available offer. Ok, Southern sucks right now, but a free education is a free education.

Now, late in the process, State comes calling and offers.

You tellin me your father would make you honor your commitment to Southern...he would encourage you to not attend your dream school, the school that you grew up cheering for?

C'mon Son

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That is exactly what Im saying. This thread tells me a lot about peoples word and how people are these days....Im 30 for the record

He would have never let me commit there if I wasnt 100%. That is the point. Youdont marry a woman and 3 years later, a 10 wants to **** you and you leave your wife. You dance with who brought you.

If i had a crush on the hottest girl in school and she turns me down for prom, i ask the next best thing. Then if the original gets shot down a few times and ask me to go to prom a week before, i tell her to get ****ed.

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Originally Posted by Ennis Del Mar

That is exactly what Im saying. This thread tells me a lot about peoples word and how people are these days....Im 30 for the record

He would have never let me commit there if I wasnt 100%. That is the point. Youdont marry a woman and 3 years later, a 10 wants to **** you and you leave your wife. You dance with who brought you.

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That was my earlier point. You don't marry when you commit, you plan to marry sort of like being engaged. Until you sign the papers you haven't taken your vows.

Sounds like there are a bunch of pussies in this thread that dont mind being the backup prom date.

That would piss me off and i would play at 1000% percent and want to destroy msu every time i played them.

Guess yall are wired different.

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Originally Posted by Ennis Del Mar

Sounds like there are a bunch of pussies in this thread that dont mind being the backup prom date.

That would piss me off and i would play at 1000% percent and want to destroy msu every time i played them.

Guess yall are wired different.

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Making a commitment only to later renege is generally despicable. However, I'm not sure I have high expectations for 17 year olds in being steadfast in their moral framework when 40+ year old men are constantly promising them the world and encouraging them to back off on their prior commitment. Football recruiting is pretty much corrupted every which way you look at it.

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Originally Posted by Ennis Del Mar

Sounds like there are a bunch of pussies in this thread that dont mind being the backup prom date.

That would piss me off and i would play at 1000% percent and want to destroy msu every time i played them.

Guess yall are wired different.

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No wait... In your OP you said "No judgement either way." Now you are saying everyone is a bunch pussies because they aren't as mad about it as you?

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Originally Posted by CJDAWG85

No wait... In your OP you said "No judgement either way." Now you are saying everyone is a bunch pussies because they aren't as mad about it as you?

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Touche'

No worries... IMO what we should've done is pull the offer once we found out he was going up there. Would've been interesting to see what OM did after that.

We should rename this thread beating a dead horse