Chill our podnah. It was a joke
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Chill our podnah. It was a joke
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero
Anyone that doesn't understand the bitching hasn't sat there for a full, normal game. You might be able to overcome it and not realize how miserable it is during regionals or SBW when the place is electric. Try sitting out there during the midweek while looking at an empty grandstand and get back to me...
7 inning games hurt us from a postseason standpoint, and they hurt every other SEC team as well. Once we did away with that, I think that was a key in the SEC becoming what it is today in baseball. He was right to vote to do away with that. It's also a safety issue with pitchers IMO. You tell a guy like Stratton who has been pitching 7 innings that now all of a sudden we need 9, and then you have relief pitchers who haven't pitched as much and now all of a sudden we're asking them to pitch a lot- that's a big difference. It's much safer to condition a pitcher to go 9 or have a relief pitcher to throw some in relief during the regular season rather than have them take a lot of time off and then ask them to throw a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by bully99
It's also a disadvantage from a managing standpoint because you get used to managing a 7 inning game and then now all of a sudden you have to switch to 9. It's just easier to be used to doing 9 so that there's not as much adapting.
You would think that after the architects MSU hired confirmed that there isn't anyway to fix the sight lines other than demolition that people would realize that you were right about that all along and drop it.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Todd, you are way overstating the 7 inning affect on pitching. Many conferences had 7 inning doubleheaders back then. Polk just thought baseball was competitively a 9 inning game. Most pitchers didn't go 9 innings. Polks best years came during the 7 inning doubleheaders.
I'm confused about one thing, our crowds for most sec weekends were poor in the grandstand. And everyone is talking about sight lines and the such. But for over a year you could go and sit in the grandstand in an empty seat Wo any questions. No more waiting until the 5th inning or anything. I get it the bleachers suck during a big weekend or regional. I honestly have never sat there. Don't know, but I believe those who say it does. But for all the bitching on here about not coming to games bc they would have to sit there is bs. I cant think of one time beside super bulldog weekend and the regional where that was true. Excuses excuses. Fact is if u don't have seats now, in whatever we do w the stadium, odds are you won't have any then either. Unless u pony up big time. Hope you do.
I am guessing here but you haven't watched a game from those shitastic bleachers in the last 10 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by bully99
Most people are not going to bring a family of 4 from out of town on the "hope" they can transition to chairbacks with their 3 yr old and 7 yr old kids. They want a guaranteeQuote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Coach, fair point. But how do you think they are now going to get those seats? Guess what of they don't have priority they aren't getting them now either. Now meaning in a new grandstand.
Eta, they might not want to come on a "hope" but for the past 10 + years it wouldnt be a hope it hasn't been full except in the aforementioned weekends. So one could know seats were available. And available every single day of every single weekend.
Well, the new Grandstand would have 7-8K chairbacks- a couple thousand more. And as I said- develop a system for people not making it to theirs to give them up electronically so that the school could sell them or something. There is a way. Takes some progressive thinkingQuote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
I have seen people checking tickets going up into the grandstand in the last 10 years. Although I haven't tried just walking up there without a ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Is there really no more waiting until the fifth inning? If so, I wasn't aware of it, and they should publicize that more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Even if you can sit in the grandstand the whole game now, there's a stigma attached with this situation- it's been that way for a long time and it's something nobody wants to even deal with. Bottom Line: If people don't KNOW that they can get a seat in the grandstand, they aren't going to drive their entire family 2+ hours to go see a game if there's a chance they could get stuck in the bleachers- you would understand this if you've ever had to sit there.
And you honestly have no right to say that this is a "bs complaint" or "excuse"- the fact is, you have it WAY better than they do. You have no clue what it's like to sit there. None. Luckily I don't have to very often, but I know what it's like- and I know it's not a "bs excuse." How can you even attempt to criticize someone for not wanting to sit there when that you admit that you've never had to do it yourself? Unbelievable.
And yes, many of these same people who want to support Mississippi State baseball without having to sit in the bleachers would be willing to buy season tickets if they got good seats. The problem is, all the decent seats are bought up by life timers, and that's okay- but maybe there are some new people wanting to enjoy baseball at State too? Just because they didn't get in on the sweetheart, good-ole-boy deal in the 80s and have been sitting in the same seat in Dudy Noble for the past 25 years doesn't mean they should be left out in the cold. If we do this stadium thing the right way, there will be plenty of seats to go around and everyone can be happy. Have you ever thought about that?
And do you disagree with Polk about baseball being a 9 inning sport? I don't. I think it should be a 9 innings in college.Quote:
Originally Posted by bully99
You are correct that most pitchers typically don't go 9 innings, but if you do have one that has that ability you need to condition him to be able to do so. You didn't mention relief pitchers, but you have to take both types of pitchers into consideration even though pitchers that can go 9 innings in college is not the norm.
I'm not sure about many conferences having 7 vs. 9 innings back in the 80's- but the postseason has been 9 innings for as long as I can remember. Because of that, if your pitchers are conditioned to handle that normally, it's less of an adjustment. There's a reason why there are no major conferences that play 7- and that's why.
And then there are pro baseball considerations. Scouts are going to tell high school pitchers not to go to college because of what I am talking about- and that will cause a few of the elite pitchers to not come to college throughout the league.
By saying "Polk's best years came during the 7 inning DH" you seem to be suggesting that we somehow had an advantage by playing them. The reason we had a lot of success during that era was because Polk was hungry and better than most of the coaches of that era save for Bertman. We had a lot of talent- and that's why we won more often than not. Not because playing 7 innings somehow gave us an advantage.
To my understanding- the fifth inning migration rule doesn't apply for midweek games and it may be OOC games. SEC games the rule is still in effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
There should be a policy change. I think the honor code would work out fine. I buy a GA ticket and if I want to sit in a grandstand seat that is vacant, I sit there. If the season ticket holder comes up later and reasonably proves that is his seat- like by showing me his ticket- I move to another vacant seat. I would rather move 2-3 times before the game or early in the game than have to migrate. Everyone should be respectful of one another.Quote:
Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero
If they build a new grandstand, everyone in theory should have a chairback seat. Unless they install some bleachers somewhere, which I don't think will happen.
The seating licenses have unfortunately created a sense of entitlement amongst a lot of the people that sit there. "This is MY seat- is has MY name on it." It has caused us a lot of problems and issues that we are now having to deal with. It was just a very short-sighted poorly thought out program. Really, it's a too good to be true deal when you think about it.
Todd, what I'm talking about is the 7 inning games were mostly irrelevant to who won or lost unless you had a weak pitching staff. Most games were still 9 inning games.
The sec was 10 teams back then. You had a east and a west division. Each team played the other 4 teams in their division 6 times. 3 home and 3 road games. You played 24 games and 16 were 7 inning games. That means about 40 of your games were 9 inning games. No depth pitching staffs actually benefitted from sevens. So Polk probably was helped by his lack of depth.
When the sec went away from the two 7 games, they actually went for a few years to one 9 and one 7,before finally going to all 9 games.
Bertman always was helped by his deep pitching staff, something Polk usually lacked.
Yes I like 9 inning games.
Yes, I totally agree that if you have less pitching depth playing fewer innings helps you in conference play. But the problem is when postseason play comes around. You are correct about 9 inning games against midweek and then the single SEC game- but playing 9 innings against Mississppi College and Belhaven doesn't help us very much when we had to play Texas or North Carolina in the postseason and we had to play them 9 innings. Two of our top three starters weren't going more than seven innings ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by bully99
Playing seven inning games might help us get to the regional and host it- but going beyond that it didn't really do us any favors as far as winning the whole thing.
But I don't fault Polk at all for voting to go to 9 inning games. Because to me, playing 9 innings helps us- regardless of who the coach is- to win a championship. Even if we blow out someone and we pitch someone like Preston Brown for an inning or two in SEC play- that's more valuable to me than him pitching 5-6 against Grambling. We play a 7 inning game and blow someone out- he probably doesn't get that opportunity.
It goes beyond pitching too- you handle your bench differently in a 7 inning game vs a 9 and you handle it differently in a DH than you do for one game. Most people don't like to catch the same catcher for both ends of a DH, and that can change things if you have a guy like an Ed Easley that you really would like to have out there for all three games. There's just a lot of little things like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
"This is MY seat- is has MY name on it." - For any one season, it is. But I get your point.
"It has caused us a lot of problems and issues that we are now having to deal with" - What problems and issues?
"It was just a very short-sighted poorly thought out program." - Not when originally put in place. It was probably ACCIDENTALLY pretty smart. It has kept Dudy Noble chairbacks sold out for 25+ years. Think of the environment 25 years ago. Not the current one. Few stadiums had Personal Seat Licenses in 1986. Certainly no college baseball stadiums. It definitely should have been structured differently (annual or limited multi year) in retrospect but also looking in the rearview mirror it was pretty successful idea. And now needs an overhaul.
The common frustration I read is vacant premium seats. To me, thats not a Lifetime Chairback problem but primarily a function of the lack of an effective mechanism to move asses into those seats when vacant.
When a new stadium is built and the seating priority is based on BDC points plus an annual seat fee, how does the problem of empty seats in prime chairback areas go away? ( I am not talking about enough chairbacks but the premium ones having folks in them)
The "dugout to dugout" chairbacks will still be occupied by the top BDC point members. A rough guess puts "dugout to dugout" chairbacks in the #1000 rank BDC giving numbers. And those won't be at Dudy Noble at many weekend series just like they aren't now.
Same Problem. We have to have an effective way to get folks into unused seats.
Todd (and maybe a good board survey question) how much should an Annual Personal Seat License fee in the new stadium be on top of any BDC donation you make and a $250 season ticket? $0, $50, $100, $250, $500? $750 $1000 Let's assume the seat is First base Mid-dugout 20 rows up.
Being "full" and "sold out" are two very, VERY different things at MSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero
I haven't sat in those bleachers in almost a decade. But I remember EXACTLY what it was like. And it prevented me from going to many games during my actual time at MSU unless my frat buddies were going to be in the lounges.
How do USCe, LSU, Arkansas, even Ole Miss to some extent manage to do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottH
Fact is -- the "new" stadium doesn't need to be and should not be seated on straight up priority points. They need to have a proprietary algorithm that takes into account BDC priority, but also gives x amount of "points" to people that have kept their lifetime seats all these years, gives x amount of "points" to people actually showing up to > x% of games, etc.
Seat our new club area on BDC priority and offer the extra skyboxes to those with highest priority that do not currently have them. That (should) take care of 1300-1500 of the highest ranking tickets as well...
From there, you "mark" the seats of the people that show up all the time -- and make the grandstand full general admission during the midweek and early season non-conference(non premiere) weekend games with the understanding that you move if a ticket holder shows up -- and you don't sit in the marked seats.
WE can and will fill a new baseball stadium up regularly if we handle seating it correctly. We did for YEARS and YEARS before. Our fanbase hasn't gotten any smaller or further away from Starkville. And the ease of transit has gotten MUCH easier with the advancements of cars and the full 4-laning of 25. The point being --- build it, the people will come.
Lets Start with UM......attendance doesn't factor in there...just dollarsQuote:
Originally Posted by engie
Priority Points
The Ole Miss Athletics Foundation utilizes a priority point system to acknowledge those who support Ole Miss Athletics. Priority points are accumulated through the following:
• One point for every $100 donated to the Ole Miss Athletics Foundation.
• One point for every season ticket (up to 10 per year) since 1996 for football, men's and women's basketball, and baseball.
Allocation Process
The allocation process is the process of assigning seats. Seats will be assigned based on priority points with the highest points selected first and will continue until all seats are assigned.
Annual Seat donation prices including season ticket - 1500, 500, 350, 300(?)
Now LSU.....attendance doesn't factor in there...just dollars
All season ticket requests are combined with any season ticket wait list requests and are then sorted by using the LSU Priority Point System to determine the order in which customers will be contacted
LSU Priority Points are awarded for contributions to the LSU Tradition Fund, the Tiger Athletic Foundation and for academic giving to the University.
LSU Tradition Fund donation requirement per seat including season ticket - 2350, 1850, 665, 515, 380
Bottom line you have to pay to play. That is the business model. Better get you Bulldog Club Points in order or most of the same folks in "dugout to dugout" chairbacks now will have them in the new stadium
I wonder what price point will affect the majority of MSU Baseball fans for a combined seat license/season ticket? Assuming a 300 season ticket in a couple of years will a 450 fee fly for a 750 total outlay?
Losing the DHs was a HUGE deal for those that live farther away. It was not a big deal to make a 3+ hour trip when I knew I could spend the day at the Dude watching 2 baseball games. Its a LOT different debate to spend 6+ hours on the road coming and going to watch a 3 hour baseball game that is 1 of 56 on the year. I've found myself coming to a lot less games over the years and instead nowadays watching on Hail State TV.Quote:
Originally Posted by bully99
I know how they do them elsewhere. But they weren't facing the unique set of circumstances that we are either.
We don't need to screw the lifetime seat holders who have bought tickets every year for 30 years. That needs to have a certain level of priority. How much? I don't know -- but it needs to happen. And it needs to be a fair compromise. The reason for using actual attendance at games is so we can better allocate who gets the seats that are seen on camera as well. That isn't a problem for LSU our South Carolina given their metropolitan locations. And Ole Miss hasn't really figured that part out yet either.
If we can pull $750 for prime seats behind the plate, we need to be well over $1k on club seats, that's for sure. I'm not sure what the market dictates on that. But I know our current numbers are insanely low...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
^^^This. Someone make it happen. I (and I'm sure others) would make alot more 2 1/2 hr.- one way daytrips for games if I knew there was a good chance to pay for a chairback!
I agree with Engie- just because UM and LSU prioritize seats a certain way, doesn't mean we have to do it like them.
There is a way to give priority to both big boosters AND long-time baseball supporters- it'll just take some outside the box thinking. Just because nobody has done it yet, doesn't mean that it's impossible.
What problems and what issues- The very ones we are talking about right now. The personal seat licenses complicate things VERY much. It has also created a faction of our fan base than because they have a "too good to be true" deal to have fear about progressing our program and as a result some are very vocal about not wanting things that would actually help out program. They are the primary ones leading the "a new grandstand would be a waste of money" charge. Even though a new stadium would not only help attendance- it would also help recruiting, and it would make things more comfortable and better for everyone in the long run. Most of the time, if you talk about building a new stadium people get excited. Instead we have some people wanting to keep a hinderance because they will lose their license and have to pay more money and lose their prestige.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottH
It was a very shortsighted idea. It may have "worked" for 25 years- and I would say that is debatable given the issues it has caused- but 25 years is a short time span given the fact that our baseball program is going to be around a LOT longer than that. If it "worked"- why are there massive amounts of empty grandstand seats for every game? Seats that average Joe fan can't sit in until the 5th inning for conference games. We need to do things as a program to continue to make and develop fans for the future- that to me means kids and college kids. THAT is the future of MSU baseball. Dumping those people in crappy bleachers or having a game day experience that is bad to the point where their parents don't even bother to show up in the first place is NOT how you invest in the future of MSU baseball. You may not realize it, but just three years ago we had LOST 10 years of high caliber baseball meaning that the kids and young adults in that age group probably consider Ole Miss and USM close to or as equal programs based on on the field results and game day atmosphere. The reason we almost lost it was because the University decided to remain status quo and try to keep things the same, and you can not do that in baseball. Things change constantly and you have to be on top of that. You have to constantly be thinking about the future on the field and also about the future of the product off the field as well. The fact of the matter is NO ONE in any sport anywhere does seating licenses. If it was such a great idea, people would be copying it. There's a reason why they just sell season tickets and be done with it.
How will this help with moving asses into seats? You have a good product on the field. CHECK. You have a facility that is accessible with conveniences that are nice, clean, and comfortable. We're working on it. And then you allow people to have access to reasonably good seats. Taking the bleachers out and giving those people a chairback seat is a start (based on stadium design). I think the honor system would work out fine- the University just needs to communicate it before the season starts and then everyone just needs to act like civil human beings which shouldn't be too much to ask for since we are the Hospitality State and most of us go to church on Sunday.
I'll let Scott decide what the BDC fee should be. Whatever it is, there should be something charged. You don't get 50 yard line seats at Scott Field without having to pay a good bit to the BDC, why should people not have to pay something reasonable to sit behind home plate or the dugout to the BDC?
We can do this. And I honestly think the end result will be a happier fan base. I wouldn't be surprised if the lifetime license people see the new stadium with their new seats and then feel silly about being in such an uproar over this.Quote:
Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero
Just like some of our fans were in an uproar over Cohen getting picked over Raffo. I sure hope they feel silly now about that.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Unfortunately there is a very vocal portion of our fanbase who is more concerned about themselves than the advancement of the program and what's better for Mississippi State baseball. If we don't stay ahead of the curve, we will get left in the dust- it almost happened just a few years ago.
engie you don't have to sit in bleachers in mid week games. all seats are available unless the owner shows up, then all you have to do is find another one.
Darryl Berryhill
Class of 1963/65
Box 13 DNF/PDS
berr6728@bellsouth.net
1-225-205-1499
TAMU has a great exchange for tickets for all sports baseball included.... You just click purchase the ticket on the site and print either ticket or show them the bar-code on your smartphone for entry. I don't understand why we haven't implemented it already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullmutt
The University needs to publicize this. This is the second time in this thread I have heard this. However, I went to 6-7 games last year not including the regionals and I didn't know about it. Plus, we still continue to have the great migration. And there are still security people checking tickets, and maybe they are doing it because they are bored, but it gives the impression that you can't go into the grandstand unless you have a ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by berr6728
I'll try it this season and see what happens. I'm sure slick will bail me out of jail if they haul me off.**
We need to continue to hammer away on this...we can get this done now and not have to wait for a new stadiumQuote:
Originally Posted by trob115
So on the weekends when I can drive up from Jackson I still probably will be stuck in the shitastic bleachers. It is still a gamble for me to drive 2 hours and then not sit in the chairbacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by berr6728
It is my understanding that this is only true for students -- and only began 2 years ago. Like Todd said -- they've basically alienated a decade of potentially big MSU fans already with the "migration" policy. It certainly wasn't true for me when I was there as a student during PolkII -- when I last had to sit in the bleachers for 5 innings before being allowed into the grandstands in 05-07.Quote:
Originally Posted by berr6728
To be clear, I either sit skyboxes or lounges now. I've been blessed enough to make connections with people to enjoy Dudy Noble to the fullest extent possible every single time I go. So I'm not battling for "me" here -- I'm battling for the people that are in the position that I once was. I COMPLETELY understand how those people have been permanently or semi-permanently alienated from MSU baseball. The same was almost true for me at one time -- and I grew up a HUGE baseball fan and a huge MSU fan. We've whiffed on the "fringe" fans for a long time now -- and it's something that we have to fix -- and needed to fix a long time ago. We've GOT to grab those fans if we are going to continue being the Jones's in a sport that we've been at/very near the top for most of our lifetimes.
I just wish everyone would take a step back and look at this in the way that I am -- for the overall betterment of MSU -- and the preservation of a tradition of excellence for another generation -- instead of getting caught up in how it effects their personal "bubble" @ Dudy Noble and thus becoming part of the problem with the coming changes rather than part of the solution.
I've never been more excited about the future of MSU baseball personally...
I'm in a similar position. I have access to grandstand tickets, but I did have to sit in the bleachers several times while I was a student- it's not fun and it's not something that can be fixed by just extending the grandstand.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Every year that we keep the status quo with the grandstand is another year that we lose the ability to gain new fans.
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I tweeted Strick and got this response:
@stricklinMSU
@Elitedawg34 Seat upgrade component of Maroon Memories (http://HailState.com/memories ) should help with that
That was his response to a ticket exchange
Hey guys, I'm new to the site, haven't made any post...just really enjoy all the info. This may not be the best place to ask this, but it does go along with the thread somewhat... Going to be making my first trip for a baseball game this year with my family. We're coming for the tournament with Michigan State and I forget who else. I've been curious about what kind of seating I can expect. I've heard about the bleachers being bad. I'm not clear on how the chairbacks work. Will we be able to purchase a seat there, or maybe just move after the game has started if no one is sitting there?
You'll more than likely only be able to buy general admission tickets for the bleachers. If that is the case, you'll want to make your way to the chairbacks ASAP- now whether that is at the beginning of the game or in the fifth inning, I'm not sure but there should be plenty of seats available. You might also want to check out the ticket exchange link that C34 just posted. When you get to the chairbacks, your family will have a good time.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunn
Attracting new fans like you without forcing them to jump through hoops to get a seat is a big reason why we're probably about to build a new stadium.
Along with messageboardsuperhero said- I would ask and see if they will let you sit in the grandstand with a GA ticket since it's a non-SEC opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunn
If they say no- you will have to sit in the bleachers for a few innings and then you can move.