He'll get his shot. However, he'll have to fight off a bigger,stronger,more suited back in Shumpert.
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He'll get his shot. However, he'll have to fight off a bigger,stronger,more suited back in Shumpert.
You could be posting about how excited you are to see Josh be the feature back. You could be talking about what a hard-nosed runner he is. You could do those things without shitting on a player that worked his ass off for Mississippi State. But instead, you talk shit about Perkins. I swear. You boys are something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Perk was a soldier! He played hard every down and made huge plays for us. I'm also grateful for his leadership and willingness to do whatever the team needed him to do. Regardless of the stats, Perkins was valuable to our program.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatDog
I don't get the bashing Perk. Hell, the season is over. His MSU career is over. Its ****ing ridiculous to dog his shit period. Engie, when did JRob run against those top 40 D's? In trash time vs the 2nd and 3rd teams? Just curious. I agree that as a pure runner, that JRob is the better back. But there is a helluva lot more to playing running back than running the damn ball. Mullen makes some bonehead decisions on personnel sometimes, most notably to me the punting situation, but he always says he plays the ones that practice well which is why Bell punted more at the end of the season. Still shake my head about that. But Perkins played his heart out for MSU, won several games for us with his running and pass catching. Don't belittle him by doing this on a message board after his career is done. Robinson gets his shot next year to be the man and I'll bet some of you knotheads(my dad reference) will be here posting this same shit next season about Shumpert or Aeries Williams should be getting more reps than JRob
Is anybody bashing Perk or are they just showing the actual stats?
No there is no statement by anyone saying he sucked, but to me this belittles what he accomplished and meant to the team. He deserves better respect than that to me. I shoulda worded that better for sure. But my last sentence will happen next season. Somebody that thinks Shump is better than JRob will be bitching about Josh getting all the carries. It's the nature of our fans and I guess most fan bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
No one is dogging Perkins. We are dogging Mullen's ridiculously stupid usage of him after using him very well his first 2 years as a complement to Ballard. Let's be clear -- Perkins' shortcomings are MULLEN'S fault in misusage -- not his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by whosyourdawgy
You can figure that out just as easily as I can. Obviously, no, he was never a mop-up RB. He'd get 2-4 carries early -- go for 50 yards -- and we wouldn't see him again. I remember this happening in AT LEAST 4-5 of the games I listed.Quote:
Engie, when did JRob run against those top 40 D's? In trash time vs the 2nd and 3rd teams? Just curious.
Then what are you arguing?Quote:
I agree that as a pure runner, that JRob is the better back.
But you are arguing FOR his usage in the RB situation?Quote:
But there is a helluva lot more to playing running back than running the damn ball. Mullen makes some bonehead decisions on personnel sometimes, most notably to me the punting situation, but he always says he plays the ones that practice well which is why Bell punted more at the end of the season. Still shake my head about that.
This is ridiculous. So did Tyler Russell -- but you know what? I'm looking FORWARD AS HELL to the Dak Prescott era. EXACTLY like the Josh Robinson Era. I can appreciate what Perkins and Russell brought to the table for us -- while still KNOWING that we're going to be a better, more productive team at both spots next year with the people replacing them. It's not a shot at them -- it's reality.Quote:
But Perkins played his heart out for MSU, won several games for us with his running and pass catching.
Again -- where did anyone belittle him? Basically everything anyone has said about him comes back to Mullen's misuse of him. Do you want us to kiss everyone's ass that ever had the PRIVILEGE of playing for MSU simply because they put on the maroon and white? Give me a break.Quote:
Don't belittle him by doing this on a message board after his career is done.
You are DAMN RIGHT WE WILL -- if they outperform his ass in the most obvious fashion possible on the field to the tune of damn near 3 yards per carry difference. It ain't about the individuals -- it's about making the TEAM better. This ain't little league -- and everybody doesn't get a participation trophy. We want to WIN -- and to be put in the BEST POSITION for that to happen. Period.Quote:
Robinson gets his shot next year to be the man and I'll bet some of you knotheads(my dad reference) will be here posting this same shit next season about Shumpert or Aeries Williams should be getting more reps than JRob
Let me guess -- you were one of the people calling people out for wanting Dak over Russell too weren't you? Yet, I haven't seen you here shedding tears every time Mullen cuts a player for not being good enough. Why not?
How obvious can it be statistically?Quote:
Originally Posted by whosyourdawgy
You know what -- if Williams is getting 7 yards/carry while J-Rob is getting 4.5 -- you are DAMN RIGHT I'm going to be clamoring for Williams to get more carries. Why? Because I want MSU to be the BEST THAT IT CAN BE -- and that is FAR MORE important than massaging the ego of any individual player or coach.
You are obviously one of the people that gets caught up in putting individual coaches and players before our overall betterment of our teams -- which is how we have ended up with TOTALLY destroyed baseball, basketball, and football teams IN THE LAST DECADE.
People love arguing sports and will use stats alot to back their positions.
Upon seeing said stats, some people realize players/teams may not have been as good as they believed them to be or remembered.
Posting stats is not bashing players/coaches- but showing what took place. Stats also dont tell the whole story and may be skewed at times.
I think everybody here appreciates the effort Perk gave us and wishes him well. But its also pretty obvious JRob deserved more carries in 2013. Less carries in 2013 for Perkins would not have slighted him, but would have been a credit to JRob and what he brought to the table.
Yes. Todd's "fall down after two yards" statement is a horseshit statement. And we don't need the constant statements that Perkins isn't as good as Robinson. The only thing we should be saying about Perkins' are statements of appreciation. He busted his ass for us for 4 years. He has been a very good representative of MSU. Talk positive about JR all day. He is damn good and I'm excited to see what the future brings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
All true. It's worrisome that our coach did not make this adjustment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
And I could buy you some thicker skin too. Would you be happier if I said "not getting as many yards as Robinson?" It's essentially saying the same thing and per the stats it's true. In fact, I'll go as far as to say the reason he would fall down after two yards is because he wasn't used properly. I understand that's not his fault- and I don't blame him. He's doing what the coaches are telling him to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatDog
And for the record- I'm not bashing Perkins, I don't hate Perkins or anything else bad about Perkins. What I AM debating is that he wasn't used properly. If we had used him more like Jameon and less like Vick Ballard- our offense (and yes, I am aware that we set some records) would have been even better. I WANTED Perkins to be used in a way that fit him better so that HE and the TEAM would have had even more success than they did. If that's "bashing" Perkins- so be it. But if I thought he sucked so bad, why am I advocating using him in the lineup? You would think that if I had something personal against him or hated him or if he stole one of my girlfriends that I would be posting about how his ass needs to be on the bench.
nm
But you will never be able to analyze all of the data because you don't have access to it. You can keep trying though.
You are definitely in the crowd with the blatant mistrust of our coaching staff. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Stats don't show the whole picture. As I've said in this thread a dozen times. Anyone with any coaching experience knows this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
This thread is like dealing with the parents of high school athletes. The more they talk the dumber they prove themselves to be.
Stats don't show the whole picture, but the point is that Josh Robinson's game performance was better than Perkins. That's not Perkins fault. He was awesome, and had he been used in a way that emphasized his strengths, this wouldn't even be a discussion. There may have been perfectly good reasons for Perkins to get the carries based on things Robinson did or did not do in practices or off the field, but don't be an idiot and argue about game performance. Football isn't rocket science and while I don't doubt Perkins, a senior who busted his ass all four years, made fewer mistakes, if the mistakes Robinson made were enough to negate all the value added he brings, even semi-serious fans would be able to tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
Exactly. The Missed Assignment argument is a ridiculous one. "Well, we'll never know -- so just blindly trust the coaches" is how we end up with total cluster17s in EVERY major program at MSU several times in the last decade. And THEN, that "overriding trust for coach" SABOTAGES the immediate success for the next coach. This is something that I will NEVER understand about MSU athletics fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
To me, it is like arguing that it's a good idea to sit a .500 hitter with better power behind a .300 hitter -- because he's possibly more prone to making baserunning mistakes. It's ridiculous. It would take CONSTANT, GLARING mistakes to override the difference in production seen on the field.
OK. You win. We'll just go with your analysis of player performance based on watching games on TV. That'll take us a lot farther than our dumbass bunch of coaches trying to keep the best players off the field for no reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
It'll certainly take us farther than your blind loyalty to something that goes against everyone here's eyeball test -- and every tangible statistic produced.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
But hey -- RON IS GOING TO FIX IT!!1!1
yes, maybe we will judge players' performance based on something crazy like their actual performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
Again, it doesn't mean Mullen didn't have a good reason for limiting Robinson's touches, but it wasn't based on game performance.
And neither will you. But at least I've brought something tangible to the table to back up my views as opposed to blindly trusting the coaches because they are the coaches and accusing people of "bashing" players.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
Heaven forbid that we should want our players to be in the best position possible to produce- which is somehow miscontrued as bashing our players in your head.
Congratulations on typing perhaps the most ironic thing I've ever seen on a message board in 10 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
Dude, do you even read the threads before responding?Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
The point is not how to judge the player, but the amount of data you (meaning YOU) have to make up the actual performance as you so eloquently bolded and underlined. Actual performance is not made up of only what you see on TV. Which is all your monday morning quarterback ass has to use.
There are a lot of stupid athletic directors that have passed you up as a coaching candidate. You should send your resume out more often.
Do you read the posts? Game performance (and "game" was actually underlined in the post), does consist of what happens on the field. On the field, Robinson performed better than Perkins. That doesn't necessarily mean that Mullen was wrong to play Perkins ahead of him, but don't be an idiot and suggest that semi-serious fans were somehow missing all the mistakes he was making that actually resulted in him not performing as well as Perkins. If he was constantly missing blocks or screwing up by running the wrong play, you'd see it in the overall result, even if you didn't spend sundays breaking down film.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
And I'll throw this out there- IF a player is performing better in practice over a player that is more productive on game day- I'm totally OK starting the player that is practicing better. They get the reward of being a starter and getting introduced on the video board. BUT- it makes zero sense to play a player that is not performing as well on game day over a better option for the majority of the game.
It gets to a point where there is a gray area where you begin to hurt the team because a coach feels like a player is subjectively performing better in practice.
We saw the exact same thing last year with Cherrington over PJ Jones.
Quite a contradiction. You state that people use stats erroneously. Yet then you state it is obvious the coaches screwed up based upon the only data available - stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I return to my point that the underlying issue here - which nobody admits - is that there is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff. And people will use what is available to prove it regardless of the absence of enough knowledge to even make a valid argument.
I challenge you to find any coach worth his mettle who decides who plays based on game stats alone. And to say anything is "pretty obvious" when being only an outsider is again, irresponsible.
So for anyone to stomp their feet like an adolescent because they think they can prove their point with a small percentage of the data is sadly mistaken.
An excellent point is the droves of misled posters who spent most of the season criticizing Nickoe Whitley based on "actual performance" or "game stats". In the end NW did not "suck" as I read multiple times and was being praised for his toughness and persistence in playing through injury.
It's not blatant mistrust, you are overstating it. All coaches are fallible as are all people. People also have opinions and sometimes those opinions are strongly held.
Many feel Robinson was a better runner and still appreciated Perkins who is also good. I feel Mullen is bit too loyal to upperclassmen sometimes. That is not blatant mistrust.
Amen. Excellent post.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
What we have is a bunch of self-important people who want others to think they know more than they actually do. It's good to know everyone doesn't fall for their bull.
I second the amen. Our fans have a compulsive need to bitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUDawg4Life
I third the Amen.....bravo!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatDog
So, who's more "self-important" here? The ones having a sports discussion or the guy trying to tell everyone that they don't know what they are talking about because they aren't at every practice and don't have every practice stat?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
Uh, the ones who developed their vast store of football knowledge while playing in the high school band?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
It's a shame I still have more football knowledge than you.Quote:
Originally Posted by K9 Avenger
I guess that proves you learn more about football in the bandstand than you do as a male cheerleader.
As opposed to obtaining blind loyalty based on NOTHING at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by K9 Avenger
Nanny nanny boo boo LOL....how old are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Never once stated anyone was bashing players. I did, though, point out that posters were judging player performance with ignorance of the facts.
You've never, ever, never been wrong in your entire life have you? I can just tell....Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I don't know who is more "self-important" (whatever in the hell that means). But I do know who is right.
Blind loyalty? No. Understanding that a TV jockey has less knowledge of player performance that a group of men who invest 60 hours a week evaluating, developing, and analyzing their players? You tell me.
I maintain that no one was getting bashed here. We are just J-Rob fans and think he deserved more carries based on how well he ran the ball this season.