MSU is STILL Not Serious About Football

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Originally Posted by Coach34

My concern is that it would be a Harsin situation- a fish out of water. Can a guy from a mostly white state that coaches mostly white players during his career come to the South and coach a team that is going to be 80% black? That's the gamble with him. LSU just went thru thru that same problem with a coach that didnt fit

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The difference with Harsin is that he was winning at Boise State because he had a talent advantage at that point to the rest of the conference. Vigen is not in that same situation. If you look at raw talent when he started winning there it was bad compared to alot of other teams in the division. Again, I’m not saying Vigen is going to be our savior and only option, but he is an example of someone we should consider hiring over coordinators who have little or no head coaching experience. I am not an AD so it’s not my job to find this person, but this is the type of candidate we need to look at

Mike Tomlin should be available after Lebby drives the Chevy off the Levee!

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Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

Mike Tomlin should be available after Lebby drives the Chevy off the Levee!

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Please no. I’ve dealt with him as a Steelers fan for many years. I can’t take him with 2 of my teams

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Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG

I am not an AD so it’s not my job to find this person, but this is the type of candidate we need to look at

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I agree that we need to do something outside of the box. My way out idea is to do what TT did- hire a super successful HS coach from a really big HS program. Let's look at Scott Surratt in Carthage, Tx. 11-0 in state championship games. Took over a program that had never won one. Coached my ex-girlfriend's sons

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/ca...89Xdci7-xYhuG7

I also like Vigen a lot, but if we want someone with some FBS experience, we could at least consider KC Keeler. He won at Rowan (D3), Delaware (FCS), Sam Houston (FCS to FBS), and just started at Temple this past year, where he went 5-7, though Temple only won 13 games combined over the previous 5 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._C._Keeler

Drawback: He's 66.
Counterargument: You're probably aren't going to get a coach for longer than a decade anyway.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I agree that we need to do something outside of the box. My way out idea is to do what TT did- hire a super successful HS coach from a really big HS program. Let's look at Scott Surratt in Carthage, Tx. 11-0 in state championship games. Took over a program that had never won one. Coached my ex-girlfriend's sons

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/ca...89Xdci7-xYhuG7

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That's not out of the box. That sets the box on fire.

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Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton

That's not out of the box. That sets the box on fire.

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But he got some experience on A&M's staff when he was younger. He is not just some random HS coach

Malzahn turned out alright

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Malzahn turned out alright

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Wasn't he an OC at Arkansas before he became a head coach? Actually he was the OC at Auburn too if I remember correctly.

We don't need to think outside the box. We need to stay inside the box.

The most successful coaches at MSU- Bellard, Jackie, Dan, and Leach. Three out of the four had head coaching experience at P4 schools. We need to get Harrell from ECU or Dickert from Wake Forest.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

We don't need to think outside the box. We need to stay inside the box.

The most successful coaches at MSU- Bellard, Jackie, Dan, and Leach. Three out of the four had head coaching experience at P4 schools. We need to get Harrell from ECU or Dickert from Wake Forest.

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Agree and do the same with a lot of players. Get the best dudes at lower levels too.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

FPI rankings the last 3 years:

2023: 60
2024: 66
2025: 58

Just not much to be proud about in any of the last 3 seasons. Arnett and Lebby both eked out a win over an overrated team from the state of Arizona at home (hey, I'll still take it) and were extremely fortunate to beat a really bad Arkansas team on the road.

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Yes the end of the year results are not where we wanted to be, but our final record was exactly what most thought it would be. I don?t count bowl games because they are not what they ?used to be?.

Coming out of the OT Tennessee game I felt much better about our football program. We had some big injuries that game that had huge impacts. Fluff and Whitson going down was two of our most important pieces.

We gotta get better, but acting like we were way off last year is crazy. We had Texas on the ropes, eventually we just ran out of steam. These are all teams that out taken my us by 30-40 ranks.

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Not only that, Arnett was a DC under Leach who had the defense on the field for like 90 plays a game due to us either scoring in 40 seconds or punting in 40 seconds. Imagine an offense that actually uses the clock a bit more and how many less yards and points our defense would give up.

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No accurate at all. We didn?t run hurry-up or tempo. We took a long time between snaps and threw to Woody Marks for a 4 yard completion (similar to a running play). It took 12 plays to score.

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Originally Posted by MBDawg601

Yes the end of the year results are not where we wanted to be, but our final record was exactly what most thought it would be.

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If we had known all of these things ahead of time, everyone would have picked us to win 7 or 8 games:

• Arizona State is not an elite team - they will finish unranked with no votes.
• Tennessee is not an elite team - they will finish unranked with no votes.
• Florida is not a good team at all - they will finish 4-8.
• Texas is not an elite team - they will finish ranked, but not in the playoffs and nowhere close to their #1 ranking preseason. They, and in particular Arch, will underachieve all season.
• Arkansas is not on the upswing with Petrino as OC. In fact they will finish 2-10.
• Missouri is not a good team - they will finish unranked (but with a few votes)
• Northern Illinois is actually one of the worst teams in the MAC, not a contender - I probably shouldn't include this because we should beat any MAC team anyway, but we all came into 2025 remembering what the MAC did to us in 2024....

Sorry to rehash arguments from 2 months ago, but our schedule was so much easier than we all thought it would be, and we failed to seize the opportunity that presented. I wonder what we'll be like in a year where we get really unlucky with the schedule.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I agree that we need to do something outside of the box. My way out idea is to do what TT did- hire a super successful HS coach from a really big HS program. Let's look at Scott Surratt in Carthage, Tx. 11-0 in state championship games. Took over a program that had never won one. Coached my ex-girlfriend's sons

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/ca...89Xdci7-xYhuG7

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You just ignoring the half a decade Maguire spent at Baylor before TT?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

What a shitshow this offseason has been.

We hire Zach Arnett as DC which I don't really need to expound on too much. He's one of the most overrated DC in MSU history and literally the only reason MSU fans like the guy is because he coached under Leach, has a farm in Starkville, and wears cowboy boots. Yep folks- that's how MSU fans decide whether you're a good football coach or not. You got a farm and you wear cowboy boots. Bonus points for picking up orange cones at practice. But lose the team, completely run the program into the ground, and basically turn it over to idiot boosters and their high school coach friend? Yeah- we'll take you back as DC. You simply do not see other schools picking their coaches based on BS like that. And that's why MSU loses- because we focus on the wrong things. BS like how redneck they act and how much they let the QB run the ball shouldn't be factors at all. But with MSU fans it is.

And then you have Bumphis who couldn't coach or recruit- but we're mad that he is gone because none of that matters because he was from Tupelo. One of the rare good moves Lebby made this whole offseason.

Also, why the **** is Cliff Odom still around? He apparently hasn't gotten to the point where our guys know how to return kicks because all they ever do are fair catch everything. Except when we're kicking the ball and our snapper is ****ing that up for the umpteenth time.

But this thing with Sneh to me just absolutely takes the cake. Only MSU would be the ONLY school in the entire NCAA that is trying to follow the rules. WHY? First of all, whoever made the mistake of thinking that Sneh had any eligibility should be fired tomorrow. And yes, make it public like MSU did with the media team after the NSD debacle just so that our fans know that you are at least trying to give a shit. But second of all that shouldn't matter because we should be appealing this and getting an injunction to get him eligible. And that's THE most disappointing thing to me. We aren't even ****ing trying. We're just like "Sorry son, that's a tough break." In the meantime Ole Miss is over here and getting their Heisman contender QB back for an extra year he doesn't deserve because why? Because they put the ****ing effort into it to get him eligible. If he went to MSU he would be in the NFL combine this past week and we would be moving. Not them. And that's why they're going to kick our ass AGAIN with a guy coaching them on offense who went to MSU while we're going to be looking for our next savior coach who is hopefully redneck enough to appease our idiot boosters and maybe scratch out 7 wins and a Liberty Bowl bid. Gee, I don't know why attendance is plummeting?******

So, I say this to say this. **** you Zac Selmon. You know this shit wouldn't happen at Oklahoma. And you're just sitting there letting this happen. **** you Jeff Lebby. You suck, you're coaching staff sucks, and you're going to be an OC at Arkansas State next year so get your resume' ready bitch.

Hallelujah. Holy Shit. Hail State.

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Arnett is not overrated as a DC. At all. At this point, because of people like you, he is underrated.

Arnett was a good DC for Leach - no complaints.

I think there is reason to be "hopeful but concerned" about whether he can be a good DC for Lebby.

Hate to burst your bubble, Todd, but Bullard had 2 winning seasons in his 7 year tenure. Since I was at the game, I'm well aware that he had that great win, but you would have been screaming for his head after 1981.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I agree that we need to do something outside of the box. My way out idea is to do what TT did- hire a super successful HS coach from a really big HS program. Let's look at Scott Surratt in Carthage, Tx. 11-0 in state championship games. Took over a program that had never won one. Coached my ex-girlfriend's sons

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/ca...89Xdci7-xYhuG7

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About 100% sure that his daughter?s boyfriend is on staff now. Is one of Lebby?s right hand guys, Tanner Schafer

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

We don't need to think outside the box. We need to stay inside the box.

The most successful coaches at MSU- Bellard, Jackie, Dan, and Leach. Three out of the four had head coaching experience at P4 schools. We need to get Harrell from ECU or Dickert from Wake Forest.

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I would be all for that if we could pull those coaches. I am just not sure we can do that because if they have successful seasons they will probably get better offers. I just think going with someone who has head coaching experience for a good number of years at lower levels is generally better than a coordinator unless they are mentored by a fantastic coach like Meyer or Saban and have multiple NCs under their belt like Mullen and Smart did.

Arnett is a hell of a DC. Hell, when we were getting 3 yard passes on offense, his defense was winning games.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Arnett is a hell of a DC. Hell, when we were getting 3 yard passes on offense, his defense was winning games.

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I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

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I don't even care enough to look, but did offense ever score more than def allowed during leach tenure? Sec ranks?

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

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Hell, right off the top of my head I can name one. The last game Leach coached. The Egg Bowl. The defense kept kiffins offense in check most of the game. The offense had opportunities to put the game away and couldn't seal the deal. Offense handed ole miss the ball and said here ya go. Defense stopped them for the win.

There were multiple games that the defense kept it close enough despite the offense not being able to do shit. Then the offense scored just enough to win. Only because the defense kept the score low and close.

Let's see if this formats correctly:

• Offensive Yards
• Offensive TDs
• Defensive Yards Allowed
• Defensive TDs Allowed
• Defensive TDs Scored

632 5 425 4 0 2020 LSU 44-34
208 3 478 2 0 2020 Vanderbilt 24-17
446 4 342 4 2 2020 Missouri 51-32
438 3 297 2 0 2021 Texas A&M 26-22
522 6 155 0 0 2021 Vanderbilt 45-6
438 4 216 1 0 2021 Kentucky 31-17
487 6 483 5 0 2021 Auburn 43-34
473 4 388 3 1 2022 Texas A&M 42-24
568 6 483 2 0 2022 Arkansas 40-17
370 4 331 4 0 2022 Auburn 39-33
336 3 335 3 0 2022 Ole Miss 24-22

These are the 11 SEC wins in the Leach Era. There isn't a good example of the offense sucking and the defense bailing us out for the win. In 8 of the 11 wins, we had at least 400 yards and 3 TDs, so even when the defense played well too, you can't say they bailed us out.

• The last 2 games, 2022 wins over Auburn and Ole Miss, seem really similar on paper, which is interesting because they don't seem that way in my memory. I remember thinking the offense and defense were both flat against Auburn and that they both played pretty well against Ole Miss (except when Will Rogers tried to run it in himself and failed).
• They were both awful against Vanderbilt in 2020 and we were incredibly lucky to win.

None of this is intended as a knock on Arnett. He did well as Leach's DC. I'm just defending Leach's offense.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Let's see if this formats correctly:

• Offensive Yards
• Offensive TDs
• Defensive Yards Allowed
• Defensive TDs Allowed
• Defensive TDs Scored

632 5 425 4 0 2020 LSU 44-34
208 3 478 2 0 2020 Vanderbilt 24-17
446 4 342 4 2 2020 Missouri 51-32
438 3 297 2 0 2021 Texas A&M 26-22
522 6 155 0 0 2021 Vanderbilt 45-6
438 4 216 1 0 2021 Kentucky 31-17
487 6 483 5 0 2021 Auburn 43-34
473 4 388 3 1 2022 Texas A&M 42-24
568 6 483 2 0 2022 Arkansas 40-17
370 4 331 4 0 2022 Auburn 39-33
336 3 335 3 0 2022 Ole Miss 42-22

These are the 11 SEC wins in the Leach Era. There isn't a good example of the offense sucking and the defense bailing us out for the win. In 8 of the 11 wins, we had at least 400 yards and 3 TDs, so even when the defense played well too, you can't say they bailed us out.

• The last 2 games, 2022 wins over Auburn and Ole Miss, seem really similar on paper, which is interesting because they don't seem that way in my memory. I remember thinking the offense and defense were both flat against Auburn and that they both played pretty well against Ole Miss (except when Will Rogers tried to run it in himself and failed).
• They were both awful against Vanderbilt in 2020 and we were incredibly lucky to win.

None of this is intended as a knock on Arnett. He did well as Leach's DC. I'm just defending Leach's offense.

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Kinda hard to compare O and D in isolation. It takes both to win. The big Aub comeback win the O and D were not good in first half. Reverse in second. If D doesn't step up, we lose. If O doesn't produce we lose.
ae
Our D was bend don't break a lot. They gave up yards but stiffened up in the red zone. Also in today's O world, I think holding a team to 300-400 would be average vs 35-40 years ago.

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

Hell, right off the top of my head I can name one. The last game Leach coached. The Egg Bowl. The defense kept kiffins offense in check most of the game. The offense had opportunities to put the game away and couldn't seal the deal. Offense handed ole miss the ball and said here ya go. Defense stopped them for the win.

There were multiple games that the defense kept it close enough despite the offense not being able to do shit. Then the offense scored just enough to win. Only because the defense kept the score low and close.

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Yep and a lot of games (lot of losses) where D played their tails off but got tired for being on field all the time because O couldn't get a first down. Then in garbage time the O put up points and yards on the 2nd and 3rd team. This happened almost every loss. Those don't show up in just run the numbers. Our O was terrible in almost half the games.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Let's see if this formats correctly:

• Offensive Yards
• Offensive TDs
• Defensive Yards Allowed
• Defensive TDs Allowed
• Defensive TDs Scored

632 5 425 4 0 2020 LSU 44-34
208 3 478 2 0 2020 Vanderbilt 24-17
446 4 342 4 2 2020 Missouri 51-32
438 3 297 2 0 2021 Texas A&M 26-22
522 6 155 0 0 2021 Vanderbilt 45-6
438 4 216 1 0 2021 Kentucky 31-17
487 6 483 5 0 2021 Auburn 43-34
473 4 388 3 1 2022 Texas A&M 42-24
568 6 483 2 0 2022 Arkansas 40-17
370 4 331 4 0 2022 Auburn 39-33
336 3 335 3 0 2022 Ole Miss 42-22

These are the 11 SEC wins in the Leach Era. There isn't a good example of the offense sucking and the defense bailing us out for the win. In 8 of the 11 wins, we had at least 400 yards and 3 TDs, so even when the defense played well too, you can't say they bailed us out.

• The last 2 games, 2022 wins over Auburn and Ole Miss, seem really similar on paper, which is interesting because they don't seem that way in my memory. I remember thinking the offense and defense were both flat against Auburn and that they both played pretty well against Ole Miss (except when Will Rogers tried to run it in himself and failed).
• They were both awful against Vanderbilt in 2020 and we were incredibly lucky to win.

None of this is intended as a knock on Arnett. He did well as Leach's DC. I'm just defending Leach's offense.

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Egg bowl 22 you have the score wrong and if you don't include turnovers both way it's not valid. Bc the ole miss game of 22 the offense kept giving the ball away and the defense kept stopping them. Might work out even. But that's important.