Yeah, the only reason OU had that many wins was due to their 7th ranked defense. What was our Offense? 52nd? But we had a 105th ranked defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
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Yeah, the only reason OU had that many wins was due to their 7th ranked defense. What was our Offense? 52nd? But we had a 105th ranked defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
This thread is pretty crazy. I'm not sure why anyone would try to rundown any coach by using their time as a coordinator to prove a point. I've never seen that done before. Especially when everything got WORSE when the coach left. That tells me he probably did a good job. Talk about apples and oranges here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses
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Originally Posted by Todd4State
If your definition of "worse/better" is solely based on ypg and ppg then you have a basic understanding of football works (one team scores more than the other) but you don't have any real deep insight into complementary football.
Theres a reason each coach that Lebby left got better game results without Lebby.
And we judge him as a coordinator because what he's supposed to bring to the table is innovative offensive mind.
It's been well discussed how terrible he is at in game coaching management. Laughably horrific.
And again, your own numbers don't back up what you are saying. Under Lebby, his offense was ranked 3rd in the nation at OU. He left for MSU. The very next season OU dropped from 3rd to 113th in the nation. This year they were ranked 90th. So NO they did not improve after Lebby. At all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
How did Lebby leaving affect the defense the year after vs with him?
Do you not understand your own stats? Because based on what YOU presented it looks like teams got worse when he left in win totals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Oklahoma for example hired Seth Littrell after Lebby. He lasted one year and then they hired Ben Arbuckle. There is no correlation to teams getting better based on what YOU presented.
It clearly didn't "complement" the defense well enough to help the team win more games the year after he left.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
OU had six WRs injured last year along with Lebby's prized recruit flopping at QB (which Arnold proved again at Auburn this year that it wasn't on Littrell) and went from playing a charmin ultra soft B12 schedule to an SEC schedule. If that's the year you want to hang your hat on for Lebby being good - that's a realllllly bad example and shows how weak the argument for him is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
But my point is each coach achieved higher highs when Lebby was not their OC than they did with him.
(I'm giving every coach a mulligan for 2020 including Lebby - he was 5-5)
Heupel
2018 - 12-1 UCF (potentially playoff berth)
2019 - 10-3 UCF (Lebby OC)
2021 - 7-6 Tennessee
2022 - 11-2 Tennessee (potentially playoff berth)
2023 - 9-4 Tennessee
2024 - 10-3 Tennessee (playoff berth)
2025 - 8-5 Tennessee
Kiffin
2019 - 10-3 FAU
2021 - 10-3 OM Lebby (potentially Playoff Berth)
2022 - 8-5 OM
2023 - 11-2 OM (potentially playoff berth)
2024 - 10-3 OM
2025 - 13-1 OM (playoff berth)
Vegetables
2022 - 6-7 OU - Lebby
2023 - 10-3 OU - Lebby
2024 - 6-7 OU
2025 - 10-3 OU - Playoff berth
All 3 coaches have a playoff berth without Lebby. Only 2021 under Lane does Lebby have a potential playoff berth. It's not rocket science to tell he was not the straw stirring the drink. He did not elevate any programs he was around.
Your reading comprehension sucks. I literally mocked you for using ypg and ppg. I called you the top of mount stupid on the dunning kruger. You think you know so much because you don't have the knowledge of what you don't know. You are peak idiot. This message board is worse with you on it. Please better yourself and your knowledge before posting again.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
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Originally Posted by Tater
Dude is horrendous and he has a sidekick robin keeping him going.
You are twisting a frig lying again. You know, when a person has to make shit up to try and "win", all it does is make you stink. You are a dishonest hack. Lebby would have made the playoff under the current system while at Ole Miss in 2021 and OU in 2023. The only reason they did not is due to the CFP was only 4 teams!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Just a miserable liar.
No, my comprehension is just fine. Yo sated very clearly that teams improved after Lebby. I explained to you how yo were wrong with facts. You got so twisted that you were wrong you turned to the "PLAY OFFS" as if it was the same system then as now. Either you were too stupid to grasp what was being said or you are willfully ignorant. 4 team vs 12 teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
There's 3 that have made this site practically unbearable to read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses
You must be tater's Ethel Mertz then.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
winner winner chicken dinnerQuote:
Originally Posted by Turfdawg67
Again- he was a COORDINATOR. Those aren't supposed to be the "straw that stirs the drink". Your whole premise is an absolute reach because it basically shows that when Lebby leaves the team gets worse. The fact that Oklahoma can hire another good OC or that Ole Miss was good under Kiffin isn't shocking at all. No one thinks that has to do with Lebby being good or bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Tater will feel much better if we get some actual quality O linemen for next season.
Hey look. It's you failing at comprehension again. Don't try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
Thread winner... I wished we all could be as objective. I'm in for another two years knowing you can't go from what we were/are to where we want to be in only two years. So I set my final judgement aside yet again for a while longerQuote:
Originally Posted by Tater
I really don?t see how you are making some of these comparisons when some of these coaches are changing schools and conferences. Nothing similar about those schedules. The only one to look at would be OK, imo. But like you said, Ok even changed conferences so there?s not really any relative info in that set either. Too many variables.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Too many variables agreed. But theme is consistent - Lebby is not a difference maker and is just a passenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawg
Y1 Lebby is made OC: UCF -2 Wins, OM +1 Win, OU -4 Wins.
Heupel best year: 2018 UCF or 2024 Tennessee
Kiffin best year: 2025 OM
Venables best year: 2025 OU
Common thread: Lebby was not their OC
So Lebby is well known and accepted here to not do head coaching decisions well. His track record shows his offense is not conducive to bringing the best out of the team around him.
What exactly does he do well again? I don't see it
I?m not for or against Lebby right now. If you want to use those stats, I see a drop off after Lebby left each team and then those head coaches did something right to turn it around in the 2nd year after Lebby. I say that?s good on the coaches for straightening the ship. All these stats have no bearing on Lebby, the HC. Lebby, the HC, still has a lot to prove to me, but i can also see that he inherited and absolute dumpster fire in MSU football, a program that is underfunded, understaffed, and roster that has a handful of player that would play on another SEC team, and zero depth that we could hardly run a scout team. Knowing that?s how bad we were, I just can?t put it all on him. I can put on him his in game decisions and team discipline(the stupid penalties from weak discipline). With all that considered, I?m straddling the fence with him and treating this year like year 1 with him. No improvement next year, and he is toast, imoQuote:
Originally Posted by Tater
I think that's the point though, no? 2-10 year was year 1 of him to learn to do HC things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawg
He showed no improvement from Y1 to Y2. I'm not even talking about the players. He fostered a lack of discipline that had players cramping in freaking January. He made boneheaded decisions constantly this year. Culminating with allowing a kid to potentially tear his body in half while he is clearly limping. Last game of the year and still several mental mistakes.
I want him to succeed but I just don't see anything he does well as a HC. He doesn't do anything great as an OC. What positives does he really have?
He recruits excellent WRs. He didn't lose the surefire State QB commit (though he killed his year 2 spring practice reps). I really can't think of anything else positive he's done above replacement level as a coach in 2 years.
Everyone can be replaced. Coaches and players. Better have a bigger commitment to football to attract a decent coach. This program needs some stability badly and replacing coaches like we’ve been doing is not how to build a program. Better have a surefire replacement wanting the job that is obviously an upgrade if you pull the trigger, but we know that’s not happening right now. So we might as well pull for the guy and hope our boosters step up in the portal. He he gets a better roster and still can’t go bowling, he should be toast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
The offense was hot garbage. We scored to make it close at one point only, it was never really in doubt. You watched it, dont play that game. The red zone offense is Mccorvey level bad. Same story over and over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Red zone was awful. Think it falls on our OL even more in the redzone because the field has shrunk. They were horrible except when they rushed 4 or less in pass pro. If we don’t improve OL, it will look the same next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
Everybody sees it but him. The fact that he is having to out right lie in hopes of gaining people to his cause across multiple boards should be a massive red flag to all that reads his crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawg
A lie he just told was that OU just had their best season in wins. Thats a lie. Lebby ended his career there with the exact same record.
Another lie in this thread is that the offense was horrible at OU and people wanted him fired. Not only people, but Ven was firing him and Selmkn bailed him out. The truth is Lebby had the #3 offense in the nation. And nobody was firing him for that.
Another lie is that their offense was better after Lebby. The truth is lebbys offense was #3. The year after 113th. This year 92nd.
Another lie was that OU made the playoffs and Lebby didn't. The fact is the CFP was different then and only 4 teams got in. Ou had the exact same wins under Lebby as they did this year and the only reason OU was in is due to CFP moving to 12 teams.
The truth is not in this guy.
I only got a few OU friends and they were both very glad he left OU.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
I don’t know any OU fans personally, but from reading their boards back then they wanted Lebby fired. I think part of that though was an incident with Art Briles that sparked controversy, so I’m not sure if it was more that than actual results. Then again, we had a lot of people wanted Hevesy fired but would gladly welcome him back now seeing how poor our OL has been.
"Another lie another lie another lie". Dude you have serious issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
You can't even read what I'm telling you. You look like a ****ing moron touting ypg / ppg as your stats about what makes an offense good. I said that is ****ing kindergarten level understanding of football. I have consistently said that Lebby's offense style is not conducive to complementary football and winning.
And you totally missed where under the 12 team format I gave credit where rankings would have had a team Lebby was on in the playoffs (like 2021 OM). OU would have been bumped for the G5 champion in 2023 since it was top 6 champions until the pac12 was carved up. Shocking that a 10-2 SEC record was seen with higher regard than a 10-2 Big 12 record.
And multiple boards? Not sure where else I've had to talk to you. SPS I have a different name and everyone but the Will Rogers impersonator is in agreement over there about Lebby sucking. If there's another board that has another Tater, then shouts to him for fighting the good fight.
Literally it's you and Todd on here defending Lebby. And Todd is one who has shown himself to be a jack of all trades, master of none (well I can't say that about baseball - Todd knows it there) when it comes to being high on the mountain of Dunning Kruger.
This is the last post. I won't be responding to you again. You posted so weirdly like this when you defended Leach like you were his wife (and I was a Leach supporter through and through). You probably were the Coach13 guy who was clearly Joe Moorhead's wife. And I'd bet you originally wished you could swap bodies with Megan Mullen. Wish harder and give up the internet for New Year's resolution.
Well there was always a strong contingent that HATED the hire from the onset. The Briles wearing OU colors thing incensed them, but Venables was gonna get 2 years out of him. He lost a lot of goodwill in season 1 with the 6-7 showing from the contingent of boosters that wanted him but not enough to fire. Then as 2023 went on - the ones who understand football saw through the gaudy numbers and stats. It's a system that exponentially explodes in your favor when you have a massive talent difference. (73 against Arkansas State, 66 against Tulsa, 69 against a very depleted TCU team) but in the two games that mattered - 34 against Texsa and 24 against Okie Lite - it wasn't there like this elite coordinator was supposed to be. And it wasn't complementing Venables defense at all. It's not a surprise that when you don't have 100+ plays that a defense gets better. And now OU is much better on defense and poised to improve further while having more complementary football.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG
How it went down in November was that Lebby was encouraged to find something else. I can't speak to the specifics of who all turned us down before getting to Lebby, but I know that the end result is Selmon did OU a solid. Saved them from buyout / firing him. Lebby was not going to be OC in 2024 at OU regardless of that as the power struggle had shifted to those who hate Briles and OU really friggin hates losing Bedlam. So here we are.
Come on now this is pretty disingenuous with the 2025 Oklahoma talk. This was Venables best year because they were a top 10 defense in every metric. If Lebby was their OC this year they might still be playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
The crux of the point is that Lebby's offense doesn't complement defenses well. OU wouldn't have near the defense they did having to deal with what his offense does to set the defense up poorly as opposed to other systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEDawg
Ah yes that refreshed my memory a bit and goes along with what I read. Their boosters definitely seemed more vocal about the Briles connection than other schools he was OC for previously. Their defense is elite now so if Venables can find something offensively then he will be successful there. I remember a large portion were happy he left because of the Briles connection and upset about the Texas and OK State games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Man you lied. Period. It sucks that you feel the need to do that. I laid it out and everybody sees it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
As with any coach, you can find something to bitch about without over the top, estrogenic rants that are lies. But you have a mission from God.
Remember YOU stated YOU are the chosen spokesperson for all of the State fans. Yet another lie and incredibly mental thing to insist you are. And no, you were not joking. Thats friggin insane.
Not true at all. I live amongst a bunch of their boosters and they all wanted him gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
Prolly just add that dude to your ignore list. I know I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
Tater, dont drink too much and freak out and get banned.
I ignored him. Besides we ain't talking politics and I haven't said near what 7 / Todd said to each other the other night lmfao.Quote:
Originally Posted by DownwardDawg
2019 UCF's defense was 41st in scoring, 2020 the year after he left they were 92ndQuote:
Originally Posted by Tater
2021 Ole Miss defense was 51st in scoring, 2022 57th after he left.
2023 OK defense was 48th in scoring 23.5 ppg, 2024 they were 29th at 21.5 ppg the year after he left.
I'm not seeing a correlation.