Big Picture for MSU Football

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

We were never top 5. We were top 50 but nowhere near top 5. Also, Arnett is never coming back here. He lost the locker room and lost the respect of a lot of a lot of former players, members of the athletic dept, and a few really prominent boosters with how he handled everything.

I still remember the quote he gave after we lost to Kentucky 31-3. “Two more wins and I KEEP MY JOB”. That is not a summation of a quote or adding words. That was his exact quote and Bookie Watson had to be restrained from him.

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I was meaning top 5 in the SEC. I should have mentioned that, my bad.

And I forgot all about him saying that! His HC stint was horrible.

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

I was meaning top 5 in the SEC. I should have mentioned that, my bad.

And I forgot all about him saying that! His HC stint was horrible.

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He just wasn't ready. We had an overzealous group of boosters from Madison Co that pushed him, and btw were pushing him well before Leach dying. They were pushing him in November of 22 when Leach had pneumonia. They convinced him they would surround him with coaching talent that would help him grow as a coach. Instead they surrounded him with a bunch of guys who would feed them info.

I think if you asked Zach today, he would tell you he knew he was in over his head as early as that first spring.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

1. Our offense is actually pretty good. We're averaging 31.5 PPG going into the Egg Bowl. That's similar to Dan in 2016 and 2017. In SEC play, we are tied with Alabama for 7th in the league at 26.9 PPG in SEC games only. We're doing that with a brutal schedule, basically no offensive line aside from Albert Reese, and a QB that PFF doesn't like. What's going to happen when KT is ready and we actually have an offensive line and an easier schedule? Now, if we hire an OC or an assistant head coach to help Lebby, I can run with that. Get Joe Jon Finley and let's go.

2. Our defense was doing OK and looked improved until the last 2-3 weeks or so ago. Right now we are last in the SEC in PPG allowed in SEC games only. As you all know I am very patient and more than fair with coaches but it's time to make some changes here. Like the entire staff. I don't want any of them back. If we bring in a new defensive staff to go along with an OC, I can run with that for next year as long as it's a quality DC. Could be Durkin, Ron Roberts, or anyone that is good.

3. Cliff Odom. Bye. I actually think special teams is the worst unit of the three. Lebby needs to go out and get a legit ST coach.

4. Continue to build NIL and bring in better players and we should be good.

As the Mandalorian says- This is the way.

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Understand what you are saying about the D stat wise, can you expand on what we are doing schematically that warrants removing the entire staff? I see us having real depth problems on that side of the ball, our fall off is dramatic in some positions and that is a killer in our league. Tell me what you see.

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Originally Posted by Coursesuper

Understand what you are saying about the D stat wise, can you expand on what we are doing schematically that warrants removing the entire staff? I see us having real depth problems on that side of the ball, our fall off is dramatic in some positions and that is a killer in our league. Tell me what you see.

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This

Nothing wrong with the scheme and the guys play hard. Mizzou just mauled us in the trenches. Thats a lack of talent problem. Thats also why Mizzou is able to continue being solid with a green true Freshman at QB- they can line up and RTGDF. If you notice- we are now struggling to do that. No depth and guys are beat down.

Want to get better in the trenches? Pay up. $15MM doesnt cut it in the SEC

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Originally Posted by Brobi-wan

That’s the party that concerns me. Will we even be anywhere near that?

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Well we already start at 15 million in rev share.
They only leaves 5 to get to the 20 million number he cited.

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Originally Posted by archdog

Agree with everything you have said.

Special teams is a 100% loss yardage and opportunity for us. We never try to get a return. We put a RB to return? Why would we do that? You telling me one of our freshman receivers can?t return kicks? Is he the only one that can catch a kickoff? He?ll, even when he catches it outside the endzone he takes a faircatch. To me that is indicative of our entire team. I like our punter, but he isn?t getting the height others in the SEC gets.

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I've never understood why Booth is returning kicks. Makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Well we already start at 15 million in rev share.
They only leaves 5 to get to the 20 million number he cited.

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Yeah but all schools rev share now- the price for players will continue to go up. We are still competing against other rev share teams

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

I thought he was a good DC. Just my opinion. If I remember correctly we were top 5 in total defense in '20 and '21. When he came in '19 we were bottom of the league.

Edited to add: With being able to completely flip a roster in 1-2 years time and guys getting for the portal, I dont understand how coaches ir assistants that have been gone for 2+ years are still getting blamed for what's happening now. I couldn't give you an exact number but I'm sure most guys if not all that Arnett recruited are probably gone. I even see people still blaming Leach and that's crazy to me.

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Because they left the program in such shambles that it's hard to get even average sec players to come here. We're trying to climb out of that. We got a better portal haul going into year 2 than year 1. Year 3 should be better.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Yeah but all schools rev share now- the price for players will continue to go up. We are still competing against other rev share teams

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Correct. I'm just saying that he said we needed 20-25 million total to get what we need, and the question was asked could we even come close to that. So I pointed out we start at 15 million. Already close.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Correct. I'm just saying that he said we needed 20-25 million total to get what we need, and the question was asked could we even come close to that. So I pointed out we start at 15 million. Already close.

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For sure- it helps us tremendously against non-rev share programs and smaller rev share conferences tho alot. Getting some of the burden off the boosters will help us more than most

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Yeah but all schools rev share now- the price for players will continue to go up. We are still competing against other rev share teams

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Correct. In this environment, there will be teams worth more than NFL teams. We all will have that 22 million Rev sharing met, but teams will also have that private money based off what their money people provide. So it wll come right back to who has the most money.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Correct. I'm just saying that he said we needed 20-25 million total to get what we need, and the question was asked could we even come close to that. So I pointed out we start at 15 million. Already close.

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You have to think of rev share as the new zero, schools already spending 30 mil will not stop spending that 30mil. Other programs will just add whatever part of rev share they choose to use to existing NIL funding and the prices continue to go up.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

For sure- it helps us tremendously against non-rev share programs and smaller rev share conferences tho alot. Getting some of the burden off the boosters will help us more than most

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I am told that Ark has raised 40 Million for their next coach to spend. If that includes the rev sharing, they added 18 million. If we want to massively transform our image into that of a top program, we will have to double that. The longer we sit in the background doing enough to be somewhat competitive, the more we will get behind. We have an opportunity right now before other teams raise the money level to the point we can not compete.

I hope that makes sense. Maybe I need to reword that? But if we go all in now and become that name, our REVENUE will go up. And we will be able to do more.

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Originally Posted by Coursesuper

You have to think of rev share as the new zero, schools already spending 30 mil will not stop spending that 30mil. Other programs will just add whatever part of rev share they choose to use to existing NIL funding and the prices continue to go up.

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Yes.

And if we are not winning, REVENUE goes down. So now is the time to go all out to create that image and raise the revenue cap at MSU. More seats. More sales. Just MORE... all the way around... MORE. If we don't do it now, then it will get harder as those teams keep pushing the prices up.

An example here is Bama paying Saban. It ended up forcing us to offer 6 million to Mullen to stay, but that's half of what they were paying. Now everybody is paying that 13 million plus. Except for us.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

I've never understood why Booth is returning kicks. Makes no sense.

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Agree, seems like Brenen Thompson would be better suited. If your kick returner finds a crease, you want him to be able to take it to the house. That's not Devon imo.

The rev share is 21 million.
But not all of that is football.
Most teams are spending 15 or so of rev share on football. Then teams like OM are committing another 15 in NIL for a total of 30.
If we can get to 25 that can keep you competitive.

A coach like cignetti that does more with less can do it with less.

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Originally Posted by WSOPdawg

Agree, seems like Brenen Thompson would be better suited. If your kick returner finds a crease, you want him to be able to take it to the house. That's not Devon imo.

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I've wondered all year why Booth has been back there. I've wanted it to be Thompson but I just assumed he wasn't comfortable doing it or wasn't good at fielding punts. And that may be why.. But surely we have someone besides Booth. Im trying to remember if he has even attempted to return a punt this year

It is crazy how big these numbers are getting just to be able to be competitive in today's college football world. With Rev share and private money raising.. we are talking teams like A&M being able to spend 70 million a year. Thats assuming they raise 50 mill like last year and spend the 20 mill of rev share. For a hope and prayer to win the NC. That.is.insane.

Edited to correct: That 50 million for A&M was total NIL. Not just for football. But still crazy numbers.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

The rev share is 21 million.
But not all of that is football.
Most teams are spending 15 or so of rev share on football. Then teams like OM are committing another 15 in NIL for a total of 30.
If we can get to 25 that can keep you competitive.

A coach like cignetti that does more with less can do it with less.

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And you also have to remember that the NIL we saw last portal period now goes away with every NIL deal now having to be cleared through the clearinghouse. I am very interested to see how that goes this cycle.

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

I've wondered all year why Booth has been back there. I've wanted it to be Thompson but I just assumed he wasn't comfortable doing it or wasn't good at fielding punts. And that may be why.. But surely we have someone besides Booth. Im trying to remember if he has even attempted to return a punt this year

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Maybe because so few kicks are returned. It's really a non issue. And 3 is returning punts.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

And you also have to remember that the NIL we saw last portal period now goes away with every NIL deal now having to be cleared through the clearinghouse. I am very interested to see how that goes this cycle.

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Can you explain what this means? I apologize.. I'm not up to date on all this NIL things.

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Originally Posted by WSOPdawg

Agree, seems like Brenen Thompson would be better suited. If your kick returner finds a crease, you want him to be able to take it to the house. That's not Devon imo.

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There are guys like Thompson that are scared to death to get hit and absolutely wont return kicks because those guys get hammered at times

We put Booth back there because our strategy is too call for the fair catch and start from the 25 every time. It's a safe strategy to prevent getting penalties and starting off in bad field position or worse than that- turnovers.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

There are guys like Thompson that are scared to death to get hit and absolutely wont return kicks because those guys get hammered at times

We put Booth back there because our strategy is too call for the fair catch and start from the 25 every time. It's a safe strategy to prevent getting penalties and starting off in bad field position or worse than that- turnovers.

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Yeah I figured Thomson wasn't comfortable doing it. Thats not a position anyone with speed can play. Gotta have some balls.