It's not one cherry picked outlier. It's happening in all 3 sportsQuote:
Originally Posted by DEDawg
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It's not one cherry picked outlier. It's happening in all 3 sportsQuote:
Originally Posted by DEDawg
I believe Lebby still thinks he is at OU or one of his other stops. The HS recruiting that he is doing is not in line with kids unless we are the “dream school”. I have direct information and knowledge of the “once you get here and get on the field, we will hook you up NIL”. NIL is not what you think it is, NIL is not being used as recruiting bait like some of you perceive it to be. I am sure we are breaking the bank on the likes of Cunningham and a few other national level recruits but the 3/4 star guys which are and have been our bread and butter are being told the above statement.
States NIL is going to kids that are soph/juniors to try and keep them here. We are far lacking on HS recruiting. NIL is more of a retention plan than a recruiting plan. Other schools are recruiting out in state guys much harder and actually offering NIL to our in state guys, Hell Mario (who is a national recruit) was offered less than 15k to sign when other schools out of state were triple that
Lebby has worked to change that. We got MVB due to Lebby and NIL being competitive to what he was getting at Oregon. Under Leach and Arnett the plan was 1000% to just use NIL for retention. Lebby came in and immediately worked to change that. So I do know that will be better this offseason. Also on Nash, I mean why would we overpay if we can get him for what we got him for? Sounds like it would've been like bidding against ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSteel16
I love MSU football, but I will never give a dime to NIL. Every extra cent I earn goes to help out either people waiting for organ transplants or people traveling to become living donors. Many of you give to similar situations with St Jude or just your neighbor who needs medical bill help. We have collectively lost our way for humanity when you are shaming others into giving money to a teenage athlete so he can get the more premium package on his dodge hellcat.
I don't give a damn if we go 2-10 every year. I ain't ever giving to NIL. biggest scam with the absolute least in return you can find.
Help people who actually need it.
Serious question, if I gave 25k to the NIL fun tomorrow what tangible difference could I see that I made?
Thank you Bert. We appreciate your opinion on the subject matter. Now when is Billy Napier selling that Starkville house he bought 5 years ago? Or the Oxford house he bought 3 years ago? Or the house he has in Gainesville? Or the house in Columbia, SC? I'd really like to jump on those listings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Stare
You telling someone to spend their money one way is no different than me telling someone to spend it another. However, since this is a MISSISSIPPI STATE MESSAGE BOARD some of us do see it pertinent to discuss NIL. At the end of the day, it is the right of the person who owns the money to spend it however they want.
You would probably have a bit more access than the avg fan. You could actually dictate where you wanted your money to go also.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreCowbell
Having a hard time thinking of a school in the big 2.5 conferences that NIL era has been affected as bad as it seems we have. Small alumni base, not a lot of money. Like Kentucky sucks but they have a large base and some big donors. Same with Arkansas. We are just in a tough spot.
Agreed. I do think we have to spend the majority to keep proven players (and I'm fine with that strategy). But it doens't leave much in the war chest to go out and compete heavy in the portal to help build the team on top of the talent we retain via NIL. So we are in a perpetual state of just being ok. We keep some good players but don't have much to go around them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSteel16
I think it's fine to realize what we have to work with - not as much as most of the othe SEC schools. But as stated earlier, if we all had one common goal and we all supported that effort we would be totally fine. Good even. But based on this thread alone I think we see the problem...we are all pulling in a thousand different directions. Ole Miss is not that much different than us, they're not. But they have absoutly convinced their fanbase if they give they are going to win big (and that's paying off for them, literally).Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreCowbell
We are. We, a lot like OM, have to rely on smaller donations and more of them. The $100-$500 donations are paramount to our success. It's like I've said since this thing got going, which was 24-36 months late(Thank Cohen and Lee Van Horn's dumbass Legacy Group for that), we need to attempt to sign every State fan that walks into DWS up for monthly BI donations. Just $10/month would be $120 a year and just going conservatively that you could sign up 30K for the season would equate to an addt. 3.6 million in NIL fundsQuote:
Originally Posted by MoreCowbell
That is exactly my point, with Nash, he has been very vocal about his two dream schools, State and FSU. Lebby is approaching every in state kid just assuming we are their dream school. This strategy is why you are “missing” on in state guys. Also don’t be terribly surprised if there is a flip after the visit to tally in October. FSU is one of the more generous NIL offers to HS kids. No inside track on Nash but I know for fact that they offered way more than State to other in state 25 OL. Just something to chew on.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
we have a lot more out of state alumni who are a lot more well off than people realize. The problem is our administration doesn?t do a good job of keeping up with who is making the money and who isn?t.
Correct. I'm not asking anyone to sell a car and give to the NIL, that's crazy. I'm saying do $10 per month. Are Miss. State fans really that bad off they can't do $10 a month? It's an honest question. Or is it just, well, I'm going to call it jealousy, that a college player makes good money and drives a nice car perhaps? Heck, I can assure you there are players driving a nicer car than I do, I don't care. But when you have two in private school and one in college the car doesn't seem to matter much anymore lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
Again though, if he committed to us, why would we be bidding against ourselves? I mean if he came to us and said "Hey FSU offered X amount, I'm going to need more" or we upped his offer so he wouldn't visit FSU then that is a different story. Happened all the times in the under the table days and you and I both know that all to well. My point was, why would we go to the kid and say "hey I know we gave you X amount but we just feel like upping that 10K now even though you have never played a snap of CFB". .Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSteel16
gtowndawg - I think you are exactly right. I was at the Arizona State game, in row 2 - and was able to watch Lebby's reaction during the game. I was really impressed with his demeanor, and who he spoke with - how he approached players in the right way. I left the game thinking, we've got a great coach - we need to give him the NIL to compete.
If you normalize things like talent evaluation, I wonder how much it would cost to land a competitive SEC roster. There's probably a cost for lower tier talent, middle tier and top tier. Believe Ohio State was noted for having a $20 million roster - and they're in playoff contention. I don't have any inside information here - but could $10 million buy us at least a middle tier roster? One way to get there is for 1000 fans (maybe top 1000 Bulldog Club members) to donate $10,000 to get to $10 million. Or, 10,000 fans to give $1000...... Or any type of combination like that.....
I am agreeing with you, I am more on the lines of saying Lebby and Co are seemingly more into transfers than hs recruiting unless it is a splash type player. I think the homegrown 3 star kids starting Jr/Sr year after being developed are over for college athletics thanks to portal
I think you are right. I think he is taking the Lane approach. Picking HS recruits here and there but mostly focusing on transfers. And honestly, if you can find multi year transfers, that may be the approachQuote:
Originally Posted by SilentSteel16
Thank you! I have faith in Lebby, I think he can be a really good coach but he needs studs to compete in this league. As I said earlier, we can do this, we just need a clear vision and have people commit to a small amount every year. I think we can even get the debbie downers on board if we do this right!Quote:
Originally Posted by oildawg
$10 million would buy you a playoff berth out of all likelihood. From what I've heard, again take it fwiw, but our NIL for football is around 8 mil. OM is between 10-12, Bama and Georgia are in the high teens, and LSU is between 12-15. Everyone else is around us so getting the right players at our current level would help us.Quote:
Originally Posted by oildawg
That's why getting say 30K to donate just $10/month could put us in that playoff contention race. I mean that extra amt would've had us in the Cam Ward sweepstakes. It probably would've been enough to throw so much at Gabriel that he would've been stupid to not come here, we were his highest offer btw. But that's the difference.
If they want to take portions of my BDC fees and put that to NIL I have no problem, if they want to take parking pass fees or season ticket holder fees and put that to NiL I am fine with that too. However I will not give a single penny directly to NIL…… just my 2 cents. I know I am not alone on this either, everyone in the stands seated around me, one of them has been a ticket holder since ‘64 completely walk away if NIL is mentioned. I actually know a guy who got out of his seats and BDC due to todays state of collegiate athletics. He said he makes a one time donation a year to AG dept now with that money.
However, if they were to do that with season tickets, the proceeds for those tickets better go to that sport. I have ST to football, m and W basketball and baseball. Those funds should not go to just football.
it doesn't matter, that is a completely separate issue. Having more money in the NIL fund will equal more and better talent on campus. Starkville being located in Tampa Bay also would equal more and better talent on campus. They are separate issues that need to be bifurcated out. Saying you won't donate to NIL because it doesn't matter, kids won't come to Starkville is not the right way to tackle this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
you most likely can add some stipulations at that point. If you said i will give you 25k but I want it to go to a HS DL recruit, I imagine they would make that happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreCowbell
But they can't do that at the present moment. It's illegal. So I guess my question is, why would you be ok with them doing it but are so against doing it yourself? I'm genuinely curious. And I think you and I have had this conversation before in another thread: I am ok with you not supporting NIL. It is your decision completely. You seem very passionate in your arguments against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSteel16
I wouldn't have a problem doing that with football and men's basketball because they turn a profit. However, baseball barely brakes even(and sometimes doesn't) and women's basketball loses around 2 mil a year. Should season ticket proceeds for those sports SOLELY go to those respective sports or should some come back to the two sports who pay for everything else at the university. I'm not saying none of it goes to those sports, but I don't necessarily think all of it should go to the sports that lose money.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSteel16
As I have said numerous times before, I personally get something out of my tickets. My kids do as well, my grandkids will as well. So my “bending” here is solely due to my seats and tickets not changing. If I have that money to NIL, instead of my seats, then I am giving up the ability to have my grandson sit in the seat that his great grandfather sat in during his time with those seats. Those seats have become a “legacy seating” for my family. I look forward to the coming games with them. I already give way too much money now to keep those seats due to RSD. I won’t be giving it to a kid that may or may not even be on the team 1 year from now.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
Call me selfish if you like but I get something out of where my money is currently going, I got a T-shirt and hat when we won the national championship in baseball….. I have plenty of hats and shirts, only a five seats that have any meaning to me. Hail State
However without that said sport, State would not have gotten that money to begin with….. I know an older couple that ONLY have season tickets for women’s basketball, so you’re saying that their money for those seats should not go to women’s basketball but to another sport that those ST holders don’t even support?Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
That makes complete sense and I see where you are coming from. You want to get something out of your payment. Do you think us doing something like an annual BI Summit or getting gear would convince you to give. Like let's say if you give $50/month for the year then you'll get a BI quarter zip in December and a BI polo in August? This is something they have looked at doingQuote:
Originally Posted by SilentSteel16
No I'm saying ALL the money wouldn't go to that sport. For example, 80 cents of every dollar would go to women's basketball. Then 15 cents to football and 5 cents to men's basketball.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSteel16
Me personally, no. But I do think you will get some people to look at NIL differently. I think that if you could somehow legally utilize RSD or any of the administrative fees associated with season tickets which there are many, and took those fees (fund) and put it to BI or something of the like, it would be universally accepted because it is not costing the average fan more money to contribute to just buying players for a year or so.
Best post I've read from you. I agree with you as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Stare
I enjoy MSU football, and it's been great following it for the past 3 decades. I don't think asking the fanbase to fund this ridiculous system and then ostracizing those that don't by saying they've forfeited their right to an opinion on the team is right. These kids are given so much already, and I'm expected to pay for them to live a luxurious college lifestyle or our team is going to suck. I realize this is happening everywhere and if we were all LSU fans I doubt we'd be commenting on a thread like this but for MSU even if we field a team for the next 100yrs and things don't change this is a death nail.
And look I do not like this just as much as some who are vehemently against it. I mean I worked in college to have some extra money on the weekends, granted it was an on campus office job so I was not roughing it by any means. But I am not crazy about the idea that I am basically just funding a football player’s off campus condo. But I know if I do not do that, then some fan of a rival school will. And I am not giving the amount of money that makes any sort of tangible difference but I know that there are 1000s that give what I give so I see it as doing my part.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSteel16
I actually understand where StarkVegasSteve and the others are coming from in that if we don't support NIL, then some other school will. I just can't wrap my head around how this became all on the fans to financially support. I am all for paying the players and even them getting rich. I am not for the fans footing the bill when we are fleeced enough already. With the TV money and the profits MSU makes on games, I see zero reason for me to move my expendable income from stuff that actually matters into stuff that doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Stare
Well said….
I know for fact that back in the day of college recruiting when payments to the players were under the table that most of the time that money went to the player’s/recruit’s parents, grandparents or whoever their person directing that kid. The reason I know this is because I was approached multiple times to donate to this slush fund. I was told who it was going to and how much. That’s why the Cam Newton money was being asked for by a person in the Cam Newton camp/crowd. Yes the money that was eventually paid by Auburn and was donated to Cam’s dad’s church so as to leave no money trail to Cam.
But back in those days I knew of one high profile recruit that we bought. The money actually went to the recruits momma and it was in the form of a whole house full of new furniture. While the bears up the hwy were doing the same except they were giving recruits momma’s houses to live in and giving relatives of players jobs at the school. The bears have always been way ahead of us buying players.
I didn’t donate then because I thought it was slimy and foolish to give my hard earned money to kids that it didn’t even know. Plus I had my own kids to give money to. Two which graduated from State and another attended. Now my kids (5) are grown, I’m retired and have grandkids (9) to give money to. One grandkid is a cheerleader at State and she is in constant need of money because of cheerleading for our great university, school work (presidents list) and no time for part time job. Yes a member of the Bulldog club and season ticket holder for more years than I can remember.
Well said. I feel exactly the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Stare
Hey that we can agree on. I think it's asinine that the fans are being asked to fully fund this when the university is making money hand over foot in terms of ticket sales, BDC donations, tv contract money, etc. It needs to be fixed so that the universities are the one's footing the bill. I feel like the second that happens, a lot of this will be reigned in. However, we can't die in the meantime of that happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Stare
I don't know how many of y'all are season ticket holders in MSU sports as geography may prevent attendance but contributions are generously made anyway. My famiy members are in the 6th decade of being season ticket holders (8 to 12 tickets over the years, 8 now) in FB. Bulldog Club fees (seating fees per season ticket), to buy the tickets are north of $5K, along with 2 parking passes. Unless it has changed BC fees pay for the scholarship costs of all MSU "student athletes" (a real joke now in major sports) and help supplement coaching salaries among other costs. After watching a rookie HC (but I think Lebby can turn things around, a rookie DC ( jury out on him, 3-3-5 for 3 1/2 quarters while giving up 8 or so ypg), lack of talent & little depth in the DL, & a portal OL that is not up to SEC standards, I told my MSU son I was cancelling my NIL today. After cooling off, I will let it ride a while longer. I have also received nothing from the BI but an email that my credit card account has been debited or my enrollment continued. I understand info being kept close to the vest or our opponents could use our financial position against us. Without Charlie Winfield we would be in a real mess. It does bother me in these threads to see posters telling other MSU fans how to spent their $ in these NIL/Portal years, even Pro athletes. All should do what they want and choose. BTW, when joining the BI, you can designate the % you want to any sport. I chose FB, 100% (pays all the bills except mens basketball). Hail State! My 6-6 floor, 7-5 ceiling has quickly changed to 3-9 floor & 5-7 ceiling unless we get things together quickly.