Should Kentucky hold on to win the SEC title these 2 weekends

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Originally Posted by Santiago

The thing is, that some on the board say we cannot just use our past 15 years for comparison because that is not normal for us.
Then we look at the past 40-50 years and we are #11, and moving up on the list of CWS appearances.

It just seems some are trying way to hard here to say MSU is basically less than schools like Kentucky, and that we cannot count the past 12-15 years , unless we count the past 25 years(Polk 2) to bring our average down.

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I think that is why personally, I don't think it is a good idea to make coaching decisions on singular things like "winning at MSU standards". Decision making like that is how end up with Texas A&M football. You have to look much more broadly at what is going on. Were the last two seasons acceptable? No. Were they a) indicators of the health of the program; or b) things that could be addressed by changing an assistant and getting healthy/more experience? The people we pay big money to look at these things said B - and it looks like they made the correct decision. They will look again at the end of this season, and at the end of every season.

But - what I think a number of us are trying to emphasize in this discussion is that college baseball as a whole is a different animal then it was even just a decade ago. More money, better players, more teams being competitive/capable of making post-season and the CWS. Many of those changes will likely mean that we actually have more "drop off" seasons then what we have grown accustomed to over the past 10-15 years. Which means you have to be even smarter about your decision making re: management then you have had to be in the past.

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Originally Posted by basedog

I'm not sure what standard means or at least I don't care if fans say it or not. I care about winning, bottom line, we have a very good baseball program and a very proud program. So what if times have changed, just keep winning and the fact of the matter it's mostly about who is in charge to keep it going. In my mind the goal is to make it to Omaha, it ain't gonna happen every year and I'm ok with this. I don't like to see things that happened the last two years, but I am enjoying the end of this year. Nothing wrong with getting on a coach, ask the haters about Leach who I wasn't crazy about but I didn't constantly bash him either. Lemonis has it going on right now, I'm glad, I may not be a big fan but I do care about Msu, that is my standard! LOL

Man, I need to take a break from ED, it is a message board and opinions matter to get folks to participate.

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AGREE!
To get to Omaha, means every season giving effort in coaching, recruiting, talent, fans , everything. That effort every season lands you in the CWS every few years and if you have a returning team, maybe back to back with good seeding in the super regionals.
Some of it is just that - the matchups in the Supers, getting homefield advantage.

It seems this board, a few posters, cannot allow posters to criticize Lemonis, and yet want him to also succeed as well. We do need a coach driven, and dang if Cohen was not one heck of a driven coach for us and set the tone for this decade run.

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Originally Posted by Santiago

AGREE!
To get to Omaha, means every season giving effort in coaching, recruiting, talent, fans , everything. That effort every season lands you in the CWS every few years and if you have a returning team, maybe back to back with good seeding in the super regionals.
Some of it is just that - the matchups in the Supers, getting homefield advantage.

It seems this board, a few posters, cannot allow posters to criticize Lemonis, and yet want him to also succeed as well. We do need a coach driven, and dang if Cohen was not one heck of a driven coach for us and set the tone for this decade run.

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Cohen was driven but he didn't set the tone. One man did that, Greg Byrne. He told all the oldheads to F off when they tried to tell him who to hire. He let everyone know we were going in a different direction and the LFL boosters weren't going to control the program any longer.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

I think that is why personally, I don't think it is a good idea to make coaching decisions on singular things like "winning at MSU standards". Decision making like that is how end up with Texas A&M football. You have to look much more broadly at what is going on. Were the last two seasons acceptable? No. Were they a) indicators of the health of the program; or b) things that could be addressed by changing an assistant and getting healthy/more experience? The people we pay big money to look at these things said B - and it looks like they made the correct decision. They will look again at the end of this season, and at the end of every season.

But - what I think a number of us are trying to emphasize in this discussion is that college baseball as a whole is a different animal then it was even just a decade ago. More money, better players, more teams being competitive/capable of making post-season and the CWS. Many of those changes will likely mean that we actually have more "drop off" seasons then what we have grown accustomed to over the past 10-15 years. Which means you have to be even smarter about your decision making re: management then you have had to be in the past.

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100%! Nailed it!

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Cohen was driven but he didn't set the tone. One man did that, Greg Byrne. He told all the oldheads to F off when they tried to tell him who to hire. He let everyone know we were going in a different direction and the LFL boosters weren't going to control the program any longer.

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And of course Byrne. I was only talking about coaches. But thank goodness for Byrne at that moment in our school history.

When our fans start explaining to other fans to become complacent by pointing at 20 years ago(Polk 2), then it reminds me of exactly when Byrne took over and all the Polk fans were up in arms he was not bowing to Polk's chosen replacement. It just comes across as that same mindset from those fans back then when Byrne was trying to push us to be better.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

I think that is why personally, I don't think it is a good idea to make coaching decisions on singular things like "winning at MSU standards". Decision making like that is how end up with Texas A&M football. You have to look much more broadly at what is going on. Were the last two seasons acceptable? No. Were they a) indicators of the health of the program; or b) things that could be addressed by changing an assistant and getting healthy/more experience? The people we pay big money to look at these things said B - and it looks like they made the correct decision. They will look again at the end of this season, and at the end of every season.

But - what I think a number of us are trying to emphasize in this discussion is that college baseball as a whole is a different animal then it was even just a decade ago. More money, better players, more teams being competitive/capable of making post-season and the CWS. Many of those changes will likely mean that we actually have more "drop off" seasons then what we have grown accustomed to over the past 10-15 years. Which means you have to be even smarter about your decision making re: management then you have had to be in the past.

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BrunswickDawg again.

We are a Top 20 program in college baseball. Nobody denies that. But here is where you got to realize where college baseball is.

In college football- there about 5 teams per season that can win it all.

In college baseball- there are about 40 teams per season that can win it all. It's just a much more competitive animal than football or even basketball. So while being Top 20 is great- it doesnt mean that Coastal Carolina or Cal St Fullerton cant be better than you in a given year

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Originally Posted by Santiago

And of course Byrne. I was only talking about coaches. But thank goodness for Byrne at that moment in our school history.

When our fans start explaining to other fans to become complacent by pointing at 20 years ago(Polk 2), then it reminds me of exactly when Byrne took over and all the Polk fans were up in arms he was not bowing to Polk's chosen replacement. It just comes across as that same mindset from those fans back then when Byrne was trying to push us to be better.

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No one is becoming complacent. That's what some aren't understanding. What people are trying to say is that college baseball is in an entirely different space than it was 20 years ago or hell even 5 years ago. More programs care now and will attempt to put competent programs on the field. Just in the last 10 years: Tennessee got their shit together, Auburn got their shit together, A&M got rolling again, Vandy reeled off 2 national championships, Florida reeled off a national championship, Ole Miss reeled off a national championship. The days of us and LSU caring about baseball and that being it are over.

What some are trying to say is that there's no standard. There never was. We just cared when no one else did. And even then, we came up short of even Omaha more times than not. Like Polk went to Omaha 5 times and should've gone AT LEAST 5 more. For the longest time, our fanbase considered us a baseball blue blood when there was no evidence of that other than we cared when 99% of people didn't. I mean just to put into perspective, we hosted a regional EVERY YEAR from 1987-1990 and these were the days when there were no Supers. We converted that into 1 trip to Omaha. ONE. Our fanbase today would have fired Polk for that.

Dont get pissy with me about being in the Top 5 of the SEC and then turn around and be pissy when I point out Kentucky may be about to have more regular season SEC titles than us. You cant have it both ways

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We are a Top 20 program in college baseball. Nobody denies that. But here is where you got to realize where college baseball is.

In college football- there about 5 teams per season that can win it all.

In college baseball- there are about 40 teams per season that can win it all. It's just a much more competitive animal than football or even basketball. So while being Top 20 is great- it doesnt mean that Coastal Carolina or Cal St Fullerton cant be better than you in a given year

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This. We are a top 20 program and I would add imo that we are a historic program in college baseball due to our success and turning the SEC into a national power. Baseball is just so different from the other sports. You never know from year to year who will win it all, when in football it generally comes down to 5-6 teams, in basketball probably 10-12, but in baseball at least 40 teams have a shot. It's a year to year thing in baseball and you have to judge the status of the program that way.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Dont get pissy with me about being in the Top 5 of the SEC and then turn around and be pissy when I point out Kentucky may be about to have more regular season SEC titles than us. You cant have it both ways

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More regular season titles in an arbitrary period you choose in order to make your stat true, right?

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

No one is becoming complacent. That's what some aren't understanding. What people are trying to say is that college baseball is in an entirely different space than it was 20 years ago or hell even 5 years ago. More programs care now and will attempt to put competent programs on the field. Just in the last 10 years: Tennessee got their shit together, Auburn got their shit together, A&M got rolling again, Vandy reeled off 2 national championships, Florida reeled off a national championship, Ole Miss reeled off a national championship. The days of us and LSU caring about baseball and that being it are over.

What some are trying to say is that there's no standard. There never was. We just cared when no one else did. And even then, we came up short of even Omaha more times than not. Like Polk went to Omaha 5 times and should've gone AT LEAST 5 more. For the longest time, our fanbase considered us a baseball blue blood when there was no evidence of that other than we cared when 99% of people didn't. I mean just to put into perspective, we hosted a regional EVERY YEAR from 1987-1990 and these were the days when there were no Supers. We converted that into 1 trip to Omaha. ONE. Our fanbase today would have fired Polk for that.

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At this point, I am not sure who said what or how many fans say this or that.
I am at the point of now asking "who's on first" ***

There are fans with the bar set high after the NC.
Then maybe fans like me that want our NC coach to be here a while and build a great legacy, but the past 2 years raised some red flags to the point of being critical even in this season. Basically not ready to let my guard down about him, and concerned what can he build next season.

I will say one of the things I love about college baseball , and MSU baseball, is watching new guys come in the program and improve over a season, and then the next season. That is a real enjoyment of the college game.
We saw guys regress on the mound, and all that stuff. I hope we keep Parker for as long as possible. He is the turnaround this year.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

This. We are a top 20 program and I would add imo that we are a historic program in college baseball due to our success turning the SEC into a national power. Baseball is just so different from the other sports. You never know from year to year who will win it all, when in football it generally comes down to 5-6 teams, in basketball probably 10-12, but in baseball at least 40 teams have a shot. It's a year to year thing in baseball and you have to judge the status of the program that way.

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And that's a major change from what it used to be. From the 60s to the mid 80s it was Texas, USC, Miami, ASU and a couple of others and that's it. Interestingly, from 1979-1985 we were almost the lone SEC CWS participant. Bama in '83 was the only other team to get to Omaha. Then LSU jumped in in '86, UGA broke thru in '87, and we were off to the races in '90 when we had 3 SEC teams for the first time (LSU, MSU, UGA) and UGA won the first SEC natty.

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Originally Posted by Santiago

At this point, I am not sure who said what or how many fans say this or that.
I am at the point of now asking "who's on first" ***

There are fans with the bar set high after the NC.
Then maybe fans like me that want our NC coach to be here a while and build a great legacy, but the past 2 years raised some red flags to the point of being critical even in this season. Basically not ready to let my guard down about him, and concerned what can he build next season.

I will say one of the things I love about college baseball , and MSU baseball, is watching new guys come in the program and improve over a season, and then the next season. That is a real enjoyment of the college game.
We saw guys regress on the mound, and all that stuff. I hope we keep Parker for as long as possible. He is the turnaround this year.

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Santiago again.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

And that's a major change from what it used to be. From the 60s to the mid 80s it was Texas, USC, Miami, ASU and a couple of others and that's it. Interestingly, from 1979-1985 we were almost the lone SEC CWS participant. Bama in '83 was the only other team to get to Omaha. Then LSU jumped in in '86, UGA broke thru in '87, and we were off to the races in '90 when we had 3 SEC teams for the first time (LSU, MSU, UGA) and UGA won the first SEC natty.

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Yeah those great USC teams under Rod Dedeaux and Arizona State with Bobby Winkles and then Jim Brock. We lived in Mesa, AZ from '69-'76 and ASU baseball was huge there. I've still got an old sun devil hat somewhere. There was this little pitcher at ASU we used to go watch named Ed Bane. Dude was lefty and threw hard and nobody could hit. Was a great college pitcher but never carried over to mlb success. Bruns you making me go back deep in my memories now, lol!

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

I think that is why personally, I don't think it is a good idea to make coaching decisions on singular things like "winning at MSU standards". Decision making like that is how end up with Texas A&M football. You have to look much more broadly at what is going on. Were the last two seasons acceptable? No. Were they a) indicators of the health of the program; or b) things that could be addressed by changing an assistant and getting healthy/more experience? The people we pay big money to look at these things said B - and it looks like they made the correct decision. They will look again at the end of this season, and at the end of every season.

But - what I think a number of us are trying to emphasize in this discussion is that college baseball as a whole is a different animal then it was even just a decade ago. More money, better players, more teams being competitive/capable of making post-season and the CWS. Many of those changes will likely mean that we actually have more "drop off" seasons then what we have grown accustomed to over the past 10-15 years. Which means you have to be even smarter about your decision making re: management then you have had to be in the past.

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Rep given

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

More regular season titles in an arbitrary period you choose in order to make your stat true, right?

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Well, We can even shorten it to a generation of 20 years and it still applies. What happened in the 80's isnt really relevant or impactful at this point. Instead of whining about the metric used- pointing out that Kentucky is about to have more regular season titles than us in recent memory should be a wake-up call to some people. But I see instead of waking up- we want to pull a Rebel and talk about how awesome we were in the good ol days

and to also add to Bruns excellent post- Coaches are having to almost completely rebuild their roster year after year now. Good players no longer stay because they are getting the PT they think they deserve- they are moving around for more money. A Freshman you are developing may just up and leave to go somewhere else instead of being patient. Major roster changes happen every year now. That also leads to more volatile outcomes instead of being steady. LSU and Fla played for the title 11 months ago- now both on the Regional bubble and fighting for a spot just to make it

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Originally Posted by Coach34

and to also add to Bruns excellent post- Coaches are having to almost completely rebuild their roster year after year now. Good players no longer stay because they are getting the PT they think they deserve- they are moving around for more money. A Freshman you are developing may just up and leave to go somewhere else instead of being patient. Major roster changes happen every year now. That also leads to more volatile outcomes instead of being steady. LSU and Fla played for the title 11 months ago- now both on the Regional bubble and fighting for a spot just to make it

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And at least LSU has the excuse that they lost definitely one, maybe two, once in a generation type players. It's just so difficult to build any kind of sustainable program in the NIL era. Makes what DVH does at Arkansas all that more impressive.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

And at least LSU has the excuse that they lost definitely one, maybe two, once in a generation type players. It's just so difficult to build any kind of sustainable program in the NIL era. Makes what DVH does at Arkansas all that more impressive.

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DVH is the modern Ron Polk. His line drive off the shin was a missed foul pop

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Well, We can even shorten it to a generation of 20 years and it still applies. What happened in the 80's isnt really relevant or impactful at this point. Instead of whining about the metric used- pointing out that Kentucky is about to have more regular season titles than us in recent memory should be a wake-up call to some people. But I see instead of waking up- we want to pull a Rebel and talk about how awesome we were in the good ol days

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As I showed earlier, we are the 7th best program nationally over the last decade and were #2 nationally over 2013 through 2021.

I'd rather keep the time frame short for that reason, but if you're going back 34 years, you might as well go back 40 years.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

and to also add to Bruns excellent post- Coaches are having to almost completely rebuild their roster year after year now. Good players no longer stay because they are getting the PT they think they deserve- they are moving around for more money. A Freshman you are developing may just up and leave to go somewhere else instead of being patient. Major roster changes happen every year now. That also leads to more volatile outcomes instead of being steady. LSU and Fla played for the title 11 months ago- now both on the Regional bubble and fighting for a spot just to make it

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Yeah we used to have players stick at least til their junior year and most even played out their senior years. You could develop and keep talent. Not that way anymore. There is pretty much a rebuild every year now. Portal and nil are huge now. If you miss on a couple of players, it can make huge difference. That's why now you pretty much have to base it on a year to year basis and evaluation.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

DVH is the modern Ron Polk. His line drive off the shin was a missed foul pop

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Odd you had two extremely successful coaches in Polk and Mike Martin and neither one could every get that natty. They're considered 2 of the best of all time and couldn't get it done. Shows just how hard it is in baseball.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Yeah we used to have players stick at least til their junior year and most even played out their senior years. You could develop and keep talent. Not that way anymore. There is pretty much a rebuild every year now. Portal and nil are huge now. If you miss on a couple of players, it can make huge difference. That's why now you pretty much have to base it on a year to year basis and evaluation.

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Just to re-enforce your point -
We have 4 players on the roster who contributed in '22 - Hines, Auger, Kohn, & Downs.

to me...miss state baseball is about listening to the games on the radio while washing the car or firing up the grill for the past 30+ years. remembering my dad taking me to watch us play Mississippi College in clinton on a frigid night in the early early 90s. i was hooked. Having a high school doubleheader on a saturday and listening to Jim on the way home and getting a kick out of how he put the emphasis on travis CHAPman, or maniSCALco, or the BOTtom of the 9th inning. staying up late to watch the SEC tournament cuz it was the first week we got out of school so bed time didn't matter, and the games weren't on tv like they are today but the tournament was!! Living and dying with the 97 and 98 runs. still holding a grudge against that tool otoole even though a couple of the most dramatic homers in program history were played out in that game in the most miss state fashion ever. Going to every home game while in college and gaining weight every spring cuz if you couldn't drink a beer an inning you were a wuss. Hanging on the fence about to die of dehydration when we somehow shocked clemson in 07. the sense of disbelief and relief when we finally sealed the deal at vandy in 18. Leaving my seat to go to the restroom every time we were on defense late in the game against notre dame in 21 cuz my blood pressure couldn't stand for me to watch. and i could go on and on and on...

the point is that there are no Kentucky fans that have that. Not even any Umiss fans my age have that. LSU...yeah sure. But as an 80s kid that fell in love with baseball in general early on, miss state baseball is part of the fabric of why i still love everything about the sport and chose coaching as a profession.

the on field results say we are an upper tier program, a historic program as someone described earlier, but there are many many folks who have the same experiences and feelings as me and to us it is an elite program. and all that goes into how expectations are different. i hope like the dickens Lemonis closes out this season with a good run and builds upon it to keep us moving upward and onward and hopefully snag a natty or two more along the way. but if next year looks like the 2 before this one then he shouldn't get the chance. the "state standard" is built on post season advancement and success much more than anything else. heck the 18 team wasn't great but they made a dang good run. and if Lemonis can't get us into the postseason every year then he can't meet that standard. whatever you choose to say that equates to...

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

to me...miss state baseball is about listening to the games on the radio while washing the car or firing up the grill for the past 30+ years. remembering my dad taking me to watch us play Mississippi College in clinton on a frigid night in the early early 90s. i was hooked. Having a high school doubleheader on a saturday and listening to Jim on the way home and getting a kick out of how he put the emphasis on travis CHAPman, or maniSCALco, or the BOTtom of the 9th inning. staying up late to watch the SEC tournament cuz it was the first week we got out of school so bed time didn't matter, and the games weren't on tv like they are today but the tournament was!! Living and dying with the 97 and 98 runs. still holding a grudge against that tool otoole even though a couple of the most dramatic homers in program history were played out in that game in the most miss state fashion ever. Going to every home game while in college and gaining weight every spring cuz if you couldn't drink a beer an inning you were a wuss. Hanging on the fence about to die of dehydration when we somehow shocked clemson in 07. the sense of disbelief and relief when we finally sealed the deal at vandy in 18. Leaving my seat to go to the restroom every time we were on defense late in the game against notre dame in 21 cuz my blood pressure couldn't stand for me to watch. and i could go on and on and on...

the point is that there are no Kentucky fans that have that. Not even any Umiss fans my age have that. LSU...yeah sure. But as an 80s kid that fell in love with baseball in general early on, miss state baseball is part of the fabric of why i still love everything about the sport and chose coaching as a profession.

the on field results say we are an upper tier program, a historic program as someone described earlier, but there are many many folks who have the same experiences and feelings as me and to us it is an elite program. and all that goes into how expectations are different. i hope like the dickens Lemonis closes out this season with a good run and builds upon it to keep us moving upward and onward and hopefully snag a natty or two more along the way. but if next year looks like the 2 before this one then he shouldn't get the chance. the "state standard" is built on post season advancement and success much more than anything else. heck the 18 team wasn't great but they made a dang good run. and if Lemonis can't get us into the postseason every year then he can't meet that standard. whatever you choose to say that equates to...

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Wow, this is an excellent post and brings back great memories for me! I grew up the same way. Have some rep!

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

to me...miss state baseball is about listening to the games on the radio while washing the car or firing up the grill for the past 30+ years. remembering my dad taking me to watch us play Mississippi College in clinton on a frigid night in the early early 90s. i was hooked. Having a high school doubleheader on a saturday and listening to Jim on the way home and getting a kick out of how he put the emphasis on travis CHAPman, or maniSCALco, or the BOTtom of the 9th inning. staying up late to watch the SEC tournament cuz it was the first week we got out of school so bed time didn't matter, and the games weren't on tv like they are today but the tournament was!! Living and dying with the 97 and 98 runs. still holding a grudge against that tool otoole even though a couple of the most dramatic homers in program history were played out in that game in the most miss state fashion ever. Going to every home game while in college and gaining weight every spring cuz if you couldn't drink a beer an inning you were a wuss. Hanging on the fence about to die of dehydration when we somehow shocked clemson in 07. the sense of disbelief and relief when we finally sealed the deal at vandy in 18. Leaving my seat to go to the restroom every time we were on defense late in the game against notre dame in 21 cuz my blood pressure couldn't stand for me to watch. and i could go on and on and on...

the point is that there are no Kentucky fans that have that. Not even any Umiss fans my age have that. LSU...yeah sure. But as an 80s kid that fell in love with baseball in general early on, miss state baseball is part of the fabric of why i still love everything about the sport and chose coaching as a profession.

the on field results say we are an upper tier program, a historic program as someone described earlier, but there are many many folks who have the same experiences and feelings as me and to us it is an elite program. and all that goes into how expectations are different. i hope like the dickens Lemonis closes out this season with a good run and builds upon it to keep us moving upward and onward and hopefully snag a natty or two more along the way. but if next year looks like the 2 before this one then he shouldn't get the chance. the "state standard" is built on post season advancement and success much more than anything else. heck the 18 team wasn't great but they made a dang good run. and if Lemonis can't get us into the postseason every year then he can't meet that standard. whatever you choose to say that equates to...

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Clemson 07......our students in the outfield doing research on the RF, and showing a poster of him dressed as a woman. Then the photos of the celebration winning that series and someone riding on the field with a tall unicycle. We need to re-surface those photos today.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Odd you had two extremely successful coaches in Polk and Mike Martin and neither one could every get that natty. They're considered 2 of the best of all time and couldn't get it done. Shows just how hard it is in baseball.

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Dude put down the crack pipe, Polk is not one of the best of all time. When you can't win it all with the overwhelming talent and resources he had in an era when no one, other than us, cared about college baseball, you're not in the "best of all time" conversation. Now he may be one of the best "under achievers" of all time.

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Originally Posted by viverlibre

Dude put down the crack pipe, Polk is not one of the best of all time. When you can't win it all with the overwhelming talent and resources he had in an era when no one, other than us, cared about college baseball, you're not in the "best of all time" conversation. Now he may be one of the best "under achievers" of all time.

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No matter what any State fan thinks, Ron Polk is considered one of the best college baseball coaches of all time. State folks are the only ones that even say that he's not, which i find odd. If for nothing else he is the father of SEC baseball. It seems to me I'm not the one with the crack pipe.

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Originally Posted by viverlibre

Dude put down the crack pipe, Polk is not one of the best of all time. When you can't win it all with the overwhelming talent and resources he had in an era when no one, other than us, cared about college baseball, you're not in the "best of all time" conversation. Now he may be one of the best "under achievers" of all time.

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Polk took 3 different schools to Omaha. He himself has made the CWS more times than all but 19 programs. Yes you can say he underachieved by never winning one, but you could say the same thing about Mike Martin, who went 17 times, or DVH who has taken 2 schools and went 9 times. Polk is one of the best coaches in college baseball history. He's not on Skip Bertman's level, because no one is, but to say Polk is not one of the best all time is just a bad take.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

No matter what any State fan thinks, Ron Polk is considered one of the best college baseball coaches of all time. State folks are the only ones that even say that he's not, which i find odd. If for nothing else he is the father of SEC baseball. It seems to me I'm not the one with the crack pipe.

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Great coach and program builder. 100%. Yes also to Father of SEC baseball

But you do have to acknowledge that without a title he and Martin cant be viewed as "one of the best". The best win hardware

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Great coach and program builder. 100%. Yes also to Father of SEC baseball

But you do have to acknowledge that without a title he and Martin cant be viewed as "one of the best". The best win hardware

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See it's tricky. Just from a football lense, I consider Dan Marino to be one of the best QBs of all time. Yet, he didn't win a Super Bowl. Now does that mean I have to consider someone like Trent Dilfer or Mark Rypien to be better than Dan Marino just because they won a SB? Rypien may have been a bad example because he actually had a decent 3-4 year run. But you could throw Nick Foles in there.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Great coach and program builder. 100%. Yes also to Father of SEC baseball

But you do have to acknowledge that without a title he and Martin cant be viewed as "one of the best". The best win hardware

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"One of the best" can be subjective. Polk is 9th all time in wins, took 3 teams to omaha(yes he never won), built our program, built baseball in the sec. He's considered "one of the best" by everyone involved in college baseball(who isn't a State fan). He would be that based on wins alone but when you add all the other things he's done for college baseball, yeah he's one of the best. Gene Chizik wouldn't be considered one of the best just because he won a title would he? It's super hard to win titles in baseball. I know a lot of fans have a bad taste in their mouth because of Polks issues with the university, but if you take off your State glasses there's no question he's a top 15-20 coach of all time. JMO, but it's based on what people involved in college baseball, scouts, mlb players and coaches think of Coach Polk

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

See it's tricky. Just from a football lense, I consider Dan Marino to be one of the best QBs of all time. Yet, he didn't win a Super Bowl. Now does that mean I have to consider someone like Trent Dilfer or Mark Rypien to be better than Dan Marino just because they won a SB? Rypien may have been a bad example because he actually had a decent 3-4 year run. But you could throw Nick Foles in there.

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and that is a very valid argument

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Originally Posted by Coach34

and that is a very valid argument

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I think it's like you said. His legacy definitely takes a hit due to no titles. He's safely in the second tier with guys like DVH, Bianco, Mike Martin, Wayne Graham, etc. I think you have the 1A tier with Dedeaux, Bertman, and Garrido. Then you have the 1B tier with Ron Fraser, Pat Casey, Tim Corbin, Cliff Gustafson, Mark Marquess, Jim Brock, etc.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I think it's like you said. His legacy definitely takes a hit due to no titles. He's safely in the second tier with guys like DVH, Bianco, Mike Martin, Wayne Graham, etc. I think you have the 1A tier with Dedeaux, Bertman, and Garrido. Then you have the 1B tier with Ron Fraser, Pat Casey, Tim Corbin, Cliff Gustafson, Mark Marquess, Jim Brock, etc.

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I agree, he's definitely in the top 15-20 of all time. Might add Bobby Winkles to your list he won 3 titles at ASU before Jim Brock. Very good list though!

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

I agree, he's definitely in the top 15-20 of all time. Might add Bobby Winkles to your list he won 3 titles at ASU before Jim Brock. Very good list though!

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It just sucks for Polk because he very easily could be in that 1B tier and knocking on the 1A door. We were the best team in the country in 85 and 89 and you could make an argument we were as good in 84 as we were in 85. That would've been 3 in 6 year stretch. That would've cemented him because he could've had 3 before Bertman had 1

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

See it's tricky. Just from a football lense, I consider Dan Marino to be one of the best QBs of all time. Yet, he didn't win a Super Bowl. Now does that mean I have to consider someone like Trent Dilfer or Mark Rypien to be better than Dan Marino just because they won a SB? Rypien may have been a bad example because he actually had a decent 3-4 year run. But you could throw Nick Foles in there.

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Huge difference between Polk and Marino. Marino played in an ultra competitive league where the most teams were essentially equal and careers are short. Polk coached in an era when he had overwhelming advantages and few other programs in the country cared about college baseball, and none cared near as much as we did. Had Polk coached Vermont for 30 years and never won a title, that would be understandable, but not winning one with the advantages he had is inexcusable. Look at mediocre coaches who have won titles just based on talent, Coker, Special Ed, Chizik, etc. Many of you would add Lemonis to that list. Just think of how easy it was to get to the CWS in Polk's day, we should have lived there.

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Originally Posted by viverlibre

Huge difference between Polk and Marino. Marino played in an ultra competitive league where the most teams were essentially equal and careers are short. Polk coached in an era when he had overwhelming advantages and few other programs in the country cared about college baseball, and none cared near as much as we did. Had Polk coached Vermont for 30 years and never won a title, that would be understandable, but not winning one with the advantages he had is inexcusable. Look at mediocre coaches who have won titles just based on talent, Coker, Special Ed, Chizik, etc. Many of you would add Lemonis to that list. Just think of how easy it was to get to the CWS in Polk's day, we should have lived there.

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What advantages did he really have? Fans that cared and a nice stadium? I mean if fans and stadiums factored in we'd have 15 national championships. The games were still played between talented players. I mean it wasn't just us. When Polk finally got us going, Miami was rolling, USC and Arizona St were still very good, Garrido had Cal State Fullerton loaded every year, Gustafson had Texas rolling, Gene Stephenson had a monster at Wichita St, hell Maine was rolling, and the list can go on. Again, college baseball is not college football. There's never been more than 10-12 programs that can realistically win a national championship on a year to year basis. College baseball has always been a sport where there's 35-40 teams that can realistically win a national championship in a given year.

Should Polk have won a national championship? Absolutely, he should've won two. Did he get terrible luck in 85 that cost him a CWS? Absolutely. You can say he came up short, but to say he was overrated is going way overboard.

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Originally Posted by MBDawg601

If we are nit-picking stats - how many hot dog eating contests have they won since 1975?

But really.....

Kentucky's resume:

NCAA Regional Champions:
2017, 2023

NCAA Tournament Appearances:
1988, 1993, 2006, 2008, 2012, 2014, 2017, 2023

Regular Season Conference Champions:
2006


STATE:

NCAA TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS:
2021

COLLEGE WORLD SERIES RUNNER-UP:
2013

COLLEGE WORLD SERIES APPEARANCES:
1971, 1979, 1981, 1985, 1990, 1997, 1998, 2007, 2013, 2018, 2019, 2021

NCAA REGIONAL CHAMPIONS:
1979, 1981, 1985, 1990, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2007, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021

NCAA TOURNAMENT APPEARANCES:
1949, 1953, 1965, 1966, 1970, 1971, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021

CONFERENCE TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS:
1979, 1985, 1987, 1990, 2001, 2005, 2012

REGULAR SEASON CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS:
1909, 1911, 1918, 1921, 1922, 1924, 1948, 1949, 1965, 1966, 1970, 1971, 1979, 1985, 1987, 1989, 2016


Let's not get carried away. Great that they can possibly win another regular season title, but they need to win when it matters.

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Ha, ha, nice job. Dang 34 interesting stat but don't bring that crap in here.