This is for all you Leach haters.........

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12-04-2022, 05:02 PM
EdwardDrayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Good season, now lets win a bowl game against a lesser opponent.

Something for you - start being an MSU fan instead of a Leach fan or pusher. This is the MSU board not the Mike Leach board and I don't hate Leach but love MSU.

Some folks like to throw the 'hate' word around when it doesn't apply at all.
12-04-2022, 05:22 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgface

It gets us to where Mullen had us on one of his good years.

Mullen won 8 or more games in 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, and 2017 and had built his best team for 2018 before leaving. Leach is just now getting to the Mullen level
12-04-2022, 05:23 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSOPdawg

This ^^^^ makes me happy :)

We're going to try to find another QB but

A. That doesn't mean we're looking to replace Will

B. It's going to be hard to find someone that is actually legitimately better than him in the portal.

C. We need another QB for depth purposes. But because of A and B it's going to have to be a fit. We're probably talking about a FCS QB who wants a shot at the SEC and wants to play for Leach hoping to parlay that into a coaching job potentially if winning the QB job doesn't work out or a guy who is a sophomore in eligibility.
12-04-2022, 05:43 PM
Coach34

We shouldn’t need a QB for depth- we have Rogers, Greek, Robertson, Locke, and Weir. Only way you bring in a QB is to compete for the job or you aren’t happy with your QB room.
12-04-2022, 05:46 PM
TorpedoIPA

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99jc

You and i both know Leach will never bench the greatest statistical passer in MSU history. The only way he rides the bench is an injury. It is what it is.

Leach believes in open competiton. At Washington State, Leach won the battle for transfer QB Gabe Gubrud, a former FCS All-American and two-time Walter Payton Award finalist. In his EWU career, Gubrud threw for 87 TDs and 9,984 yards and rushed for another 1,042 yards. He compiled 21-7 record as EWU's starting QB. But in open competition in the spring and fall, senior Anthony Gordon beat him out.

If anyone gives us a better chance to win, Leach will play him.
12-04-2022, 05:52 PM
msu15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowDawg

Congrats, he's maintaining our mediocre to average standing in college football. Considering that his offense was supposed to be special, and help elevate this program above what we've been doing, I'm not impressed.

That's the Eric I remember.
12-04-2022, 06:09 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

We shouldn’t need a QB for depth- we have Rogers, Greek, Robertson, Locke, and Weir. Only way you bring in a QB is to compete for the job or you aren’t happy with your QB room.

I guess here is where the disconnect is:

Leach-Lovers try to act like he has already matched where Mullen had the program- which is not true. They try to bring down Mullen by saying "Mullen only averaged 7 wins at State...blah blah blah". This is Leach's 1st 8 win season- achieved in Y3- while Mullen did it in Y2.

In truth- Mullen won 8 or more games 5 times and in 3 of his 4 last seasons. Plus, he had built 2018's team into a special one. Mullen had really built the program up and his leaving really hurt considering his replacement was sub-par.

Leach may get it back to that point- but it's not there yet.
12-04-2022, 06:23 PM
Lord McBuckethead

Imagine if we didn?t offensively shit the bed against LSU and Kentucky and had to play Georgia.
12-04-2022, 06:38 PM
EdwardDrayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpedoIPA

Leach believes in open competiton. At Washington State, Leach won the battle for transfer QB Gabe Gubrud, a former FCS All-American and two-time Walter Payton Award finalist. In his EWU career, Gubrud threw for 87 TDs and 9,984 yards and rushed for another 1,042 yards. He compiled 21-7 record as EWU's starting QB. But in open competition in the spring and fall, senior Anthony Gordon beat him out.

If anyone gives us a better chance to win, Leach will play him.

We may not HAVE someone who gives us a better chance to win but we NEED someone who gives us a better chance.
12-04-2022, 06:40 PM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

I guess here is where the disconnect is:

Leach-Lovers try to act like he has already matched where Mullen had the program- which is not true. They try to bring down Mullen by saying "Mullen only averaged 7 wins at State...blah blah blah". This is Leach's 1st 8 win season- achieved in Y3- while Mullen did it in Y2.

In truth- Mullen won 8 or more games 5 times and in 3 of his 4 last seasons. Plus, he had built 2018's team into a special one. Mullen had really built the program up and his leaving really hurt considering his replacement was sub-par.

Leach may get it back to that point- but it's not there yet.

Without a doubt IMO Mullen is an outstanding coach when he wants to be.

However, here are some other disconnects: Mullen had 2 full spring practices, a full 1st season with 4 OOC games, wasn't decimated personnel wise by Covid rules in several of his games the 1st 2 years, and inherited a program and a recruiting class that was on the way up somewhat and was a pretty disciplined overall program. Leach also played the best team in the East 2 of his 1st 3 years. Everyone seems to wanna discount those disconnects when in reality it's not a apples-to-apples comparison.

I'm not always happy with Leach, but I also think he needs a little time. I also think all football programs have these unrealistic expectations for new coaches nowadays, and are hiring/firing every 3 years or so cause the new coaches can't get them to conference title games or NY6 Bowls.. And I personally don't think we should be hiring/firing coaches every 2 or 3 years at MSU. MSU still has the same drawbacks relative to revenue in and out compared to the upper tier teams.

This year is somewhat the equivalent of the 2017 team but won't have as much pure talent on it. That's not saying it's as good as that team but, if everyone comes back that says they are and Rogers can get much better, we should be pretty darn decent next year.
12-04-2022, 06:41 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

We shouldn’t need a QB for depth- we have Rogers, Greek, Robertson, Locke, and Weir. Only way you bring in a QB is to compete for the job or you aren’t happy with your QB room.

I'm expecting someone(s) to transfer out.

We need someone that can push Will like a Jack Abraham type. We also need someone who we can put in when Will has his lulls.
12-04-2022, 06:44 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

I guess here is where the disconnect is:

Leach-Lovers try to act like he has already matched where Mullen had the program- which is not true. They try to bring down Mullen by saying "Mullen only averaged 7 wins at State...blah blah blah". This is Leach's 1st 8 win season- achieved in Y3- while Mullen did it in Y2.

In truth- Mullen won 8 or more games 5 times and in 3 of his 4 last seasons. Plus, he had built 2018's team into a special one. Mullen had really built the program up and his leaving really hurt considering his replacement was sub-par.

Leach may get it back to that point- but it's not there yet.

IF Leach wins the bowl his first three seasons would be about the equivalent of Dan's first three at MSU win wise. Difference basically would be switching years 2 and 3 win totals. Which is also about the equivalent of Jackie's first three years as well in sheer win totals.

It's not about tearing Dan down. It's pointing out that the same people who are complaining about Leach are also some of the same praising Dan for basically the same results or very close to it.
12-04-2022, 06:45 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Imagine if we didn?t offensively shit the bed against LSU and Kentucky and had to play Georgia.

With LSU- If Austin had not muffed that punt.
12-04-2022, 06:51 PM
DownwardDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton

I definitely will not get too excited if he is our starter.

Lol. I understand.
12-04-2022, 07:43 PM
Cowbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

My problem with Leach is his offense. Our offense shouldn't be regressing with the returning starters.

Leach does run a good program though. This has been a successful season, and he should get props for that

This seems to be the main point of confusion within the Leach debate. I love Leach as a head coach. I just wish he would fire his offensive coordinator. You can hate the offense and realize it's extremely limited while also respecting the job he has done as an overall HC.
12-04-2022, 07:48 PM
Cowbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton

We may not HAVE someone who gives us a better chance to win but we NEED someone who gives us a better chance.

Or we need an offensive scheme that doesn't rely so much on the QB being mistake free.
12-04-2022, 08:08 PM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpedoIPA

Leach believes in open competiton. At Washington State, Leach won the battle for transfer QB Gabe Gubrud, a former FCS All-American and two-time Walter Payton Award finalist. In his EWU career, Gubrud threw for 87 TDs and 9,984 yards and rushed for another 1,042 yards. He compiled 21-7 record as EWU's starting QB. But in open competition in the spring and fall, senior Anthony Gordon beat him out.

If anyone gives us a better chance to win, Leach will play him.

Leach has not shown open competition at Qb. The backups can't even get mop up duty. He's riding the Will train until the wheels fall off. We hit our ceiling this year with Will at Qb. He's terrified at any defense that sacks him once or twice.
12-04-2022, 08:17 PM
maroonmania

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Things like that are typically more than one thing to blame.

Some of it is Will. Some of it is the receivers- they dropped a ton of passes. Leach could have moved Tulu to the slot which I think would improve us significantly. Some of it was Dillion getting injured after Kentucky. Some of it was playing Alabama and LSU on the road and Georgia.

I think we're very close though. But we have work to do in the portal at WR, S and K/P. And could use another legit EDGE rusher or two.

NOTHING will change with our offense if Rogers doesn't get better as a downfield passer. Leach has never really had a mobile QB but on his better TT and WSU teams he always had a QB that could burn you down the field if the defense didn't protect the back end. Will can't really do that. His lack of arm strength and accuracy throwing deeper passes keeps everything with our offense happening within 20 yards of the LOS. That really compresses the area of the field the defense has to focus on covering.
12-04-2022, 08:24 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by maroonmania

NOTHING will change with our offense if Rogers doesn't get better as a downfield passer. Leach has never really had a mobile QB but on his better TT and WSU teams he always had a QB that could burn you down the field if the defense didn't protect the back end. Will can't really do that. His lack of arm strength and accuracy throwing deeper passes keeps everything with our offense happening within 20 yards of the LOS. That really compresses the area of the field the defense has to focus on covering.

Will has a good enough arm to make the throws he needs to. The issue is him actually doing it and also on the receivers to catch it more consistently. His accuracy is very good 20+ yards. The majority of Ducking and RaRa's TD's have been over 20+ yards.

But that's why I want Tulu in the slot. He is great in space and can make plays in traffic and get more YAC. He is also more of a vertical threat in the slot than Harvey, Austin, and maybe Walley.

Those are the kinds of things that help this offense be explosive. Our receivers lack of abilities to make YAC in the slots is an issue that doesn't get talked about enough.
12-04-2022, 08:34 PM
maroonmania

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Will has a good enough arm to make the throws he needs to. The issue is him actually doing it and also on the receivers to catch it more consistently. His accuracy is very good 20+ yards. The majority of Ducking and RaRa's TD's have been over 20+ yards.

But that's why I want Tulu in the slot. He is great in space and can make plays in traffic and get more YAC. He is also more of a vertical threat in the slot than Harvey, Austin, and maybe Walley.

Those are the kinds of things that help this offense be explosive. Our receivers lack of abilities to make YAC in the slots is an issue that doesn't get talked about enough.

I would like to know the number of completions through the season we had of more than 25 yards against SEC competition? I would say it was very few based on what I can remember. Most of our longer pass completions came against non-SEC competition. Will missed several opportunities down the field even when we had guys open against some of our better competition but the main thing is he didn't even try that many shots. We have to show teams we can be successful throwing down the field if we want to open up the area we like to operate in.

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