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Exactly. Raffy's "failed test" made him the sacrificial goat to show that MLB was serious. They point to that and don't say anything about him testing clean less than 3 weeks later. A habitual user doesn't test clean unless they are doing something to beat the test. There are instances where guys tested positive 6 months after even though they quit using roids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Nah he was at 71% last year and then came out and told BBWA to **** off. That he didn't want their HoF if they were going to drag it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodyshotmypaw
He would have gotten in this year had he not said that. His politics been known before that.
Yes they have - and yes I am over 60. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Hall of FAME. If you were a player that transcended the sport to the point where your accomplishments made you well known to foreigners, outside markets, and the average everyday American, you are a part and deserving of your place.
Delving into closets looking for skeletons doesn?t bode well for most already enshrined. One could easily argue that drug/alcohol abuse, child/spousal abuse, and sexual misconduct are all as bad or most are worse than using performance enhancing drugs or gambling. The HOF is full of guys worshipped by many for being good people. Many were not. All were great players, but lots weren?t remotely good men. It?s Hall of Fame, not Hall of Honor or Hall of Heroes.
Ok - so based on that Big Papi is a HOF. The guy was so popular and well known, Kennan Thompson was still doing bits impersonating him a late as 2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dak Holliday
Correct. Mariano Rivera and Chipper Jones have the same politics and outspokenness. Schilling has always had an icy relationship with the baseball journalists. Despite that, he would've gotten in this year had he not asked writers not to vote for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Well to be honest, there is politics and then there was what Curt Shilling was up to. I can't exactly remember what he was saying, but at the time I was like.... yeah that shit doesnt' need to be said out loud there bud.Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodyshotmypaw
I think we all know that Raffy will never get in but think about this for a second, he tested positive in 2005 (his last year). So yeah, we know he was hot then but what about the 19 years prior to that. We don't know that he was juiced then. Sure, it's reasonable to think he may have been but it's certainly not proven. If you take away that one year, his numbers are still HOF worthy.
I agree with the first sentence good or not but while the second is factually true I'll never see him as the true home run king. Bonds played in 483 more games, had 1,980 more at-bats, and abused the advantage steroids give. Bonds was a HOF without the roids. I don't feel sorry for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Edit: The numbers were in reference to Ruth in case of confusion.
I didn't say anything about him getting in, or not getting in. I said his politics hurt his vote total. And I'm correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
The Rodger Clemens situation is the one that is most curious to me.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2022/01/26/ba...ns-not-elected
That said, he made $150M in his baseball career. Had huge thrills playing a game many people only wish they could play professionally. The fans respect him, the writers don't, but who likes or respects the writers? We watch games now, people don't need baseball writers anymore. Should ONLY be a Player ballot anyway, not writers.
This! It's time for the writers to give it up. Current HOF players should decide who gets in.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
Yeah the writers making HOF selection is ridiculous. It should fall to current HOF players and management. Let them vote on them. I don't like Barry Bonds at all but the man one of the greatest if not the greatest hitters of all time. Players have been using PEDs forever, from "greenies" and other drugs starting in the 50s and beyond to the steroid era and baseball looked the other way. I have no qualms if their peers select them for HOF induction. Now on the subject of Pete Rose, loved the way the guy played but he broke the cardinal rule of baseball and then lied his butt off about it. No apologies from the man and thumbing his nose at the game just shows no remorse to me. I have no problem giving people second chances and I wholeheartedly believe in redemption but the offending party has to show contrition before that can happen and Pete simply hasn't done it, just my 2 cents which doesn't mean much lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Catfish
Good post and I agree. The writers have total control as to who gets in the HOF for a number of years. Their bias towards a player should never reflect his entry into the HOF. I'm not a Curt Schilling fan, but he shouldn't be judged on his political beliefs, and that's exactly what happened with him. He should be judged on his performance on the field. This is about baseball not a player's political or religious affiliation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Amen to that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish
I feel like Pete will get in posthumously. He doesn't deserve to reap the benefits of getting in the Hall but does deserve to be in from what he did on the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
I don't see Pete or Bonds getting in. Both did the unthinkable. One bet on baseball and it has come out lately that sometimes he bet against his own team when he was the manager.
Bonds sin? Cheated to get the homerun title. He may not have even reached 500 and certainly not 600HR without the roids. Hank is still the legit homerun king, no way Bonds deserves that title.
Bonds admitted starting to use in 97. His career was lengthened and he averaged 52 HRs a year until 2005 and before he only averaged 34. He would most likely have been out of baseball without the juice years before he got the title. Instead he gets another 59 home runs his last three years. That's at least 200 fewer HR's he would have hit without the juice and maybe more with a shorter career.
Hank hit 755 HR's clean and had 3298 hits to Bonds 2986. Bonds is no where near the home run king in my book.
Sure Hank hit HR at a lower rate but he hit more of them.
Babe Ruth hit HR at a higher rate than either Bonds or Hank but his first 3-4 years, he pitched. Imagine if he had played another four years hitting 25-30 a year. His first season as a full time hitter, he hit 29 HR.
Neither Bonds or Hank would have caught him but they did catch him so Hank is the king. Steroid use gets you disqualified from being the king of anything except maybe Wrestling.
It was a different era. Some say pitching wasn't as good and others say the ball was softer and didn't fly as easily. All I know is Ruth was so much better than everyone of his era, he didn't need roids to prove anything. His diet was hot dogs and beer.
Bonds has more total HRs period. That makes him the HR King. You can't erase that stat no matter how much you want. Bonds played against steroid users all around too. I can throw out that Bonds walked 500 more times than Ruth and 1100 more time than Aaron.
Bonds also got blackballed at the end of his career. He led the league with .480 OBP and had 28 bombs his final season. Then the MLB colluded to not sign him. Given a normal end to his career, he would have easily eclipsed 800 HRs. All while he had a career OBP of .444.
In the constraints of the rules, Barry Bonds is the greatest offensive threat of all time. By every measure you can cook up fairly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
I have yet to see proof of a hat size change, just internet nonsense. Also, going from 185 to 206 is nothing. Furthermore, are you basing his weight on his "baseball card" stats? Those are never right. Neither are most wiki weight stats, or internet weight listings.
The bottom line is the Bonds was the best hitter ever and he should most definitely be in the HOF as should Clemens. It's a complete joke.