5 of our losses are to BCS Top 12 teams, the 6th to #21.....

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Originally Posted by smootness

That isn't true. It seems true now, but once we started beating teams like that every once in a while, the expectations would grow and people would be upset it was only every once in a while. You would see people all over our message boards saying, 'Mullen has done a good job up until this point, but we have to start beating these teams more consistently. I mean, we clearly have the ability to do it but we keep making dumb mistakes that keep us from doing it consistently. I don't know if he's the guy to take us to the next step. Winning 8-9 games is fine, but when you have 4 gimme OOC games every year, then add Kentucky and (insert 1-2 teams that are down at the time), you're only talking about one extra win a year. We can do better than that'.

That is the cycle, and I'm not even saying it's a bad thing; it's natural. But it's funny to me to see fans say something like, 'If we just did x or y, we would be content'. Naturally, once you reach a certain level, that is your new basis for expectations. When you are terrible, all you want is a bowl game here and there. But then when you go to a couple of bowl games, you want them every year. Then when you're making a bowl game every year, you no longer think of yourself as the same program you were when you were terrible. In the fan's mind, you're now a better program than you were then, and just going to bowls isn't good enough. You expect to start beating some really good teams here and there. Once you get to that point, you expect to continue to get better and beat them consistently.

I know it may sound absurd to think of Mississippi State fans expecting to compete for championships every year, but that is the natural progression if you keep improving. The expectations don't just remain constant. 4 years ago, we weren't saying, 'We just need to go to some bowl games and beat top 10 teams'. We weren't even saying we needed to go to a bowl every year. Now we are. This is how it works.

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You are just flat out wrong and the best example is JWS from 1997-2000. We occassionally beat good teams and were competitive most of the time when we lost and the fanbase was happy as clams. I know I was. One thing the MSU fanbase is not is delusional. Mullen is the one who came in talking about wanting to regularly compete for championships which I believe the fanbase never really bought into but I think most believe we CAN consistently win 7-9 games per year with a 12 game schedule and beat some good SEC teams in the process on occassion. So far with Mullen we are in the 5-8 win range and really haven't beaten any good teams since 2010.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

You are just flat out wrong and the best example is JWS from 1997-2000. We occassionally beat good teams and were competitive most of the time when we lost and the fanbase was happy as clams. I know I was. One thing the MSU fanbase is not is delusional. Mullen is the one who came in talking about wanting to regularly compete for championships which I believe the fanbase never really bought into but I think most believe we CAN consistently win 7-9 games per year with a 12 game schedule and beat some good SEC teams in the process on occassion. So far with Mullen we are in the 5-8 win range and really haven't beaten any good teams since 2010.

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Exactly.

Smootness, I'm a little disappointed to hear that coming from you. I typically agree with most of your posts,but You know that is not true. Hell, we were all pleased as shit during Mullen's first 3 seasons...even the one where we went 6-6 and then beat Wake. Why? Because we were playing hard and getting the most out of our talent. We were just losing to teams that were WAY better than us.

But now, we are starting to get pissed. Not because we think 6-6 is below our standards. But because our coach has got more talent than ever, but he isn't getting the most out of it anymore and he is making more mistakes with personnel and in-game decisions than he did his first season. We are now in a position to where we are closing the talent gap between us and the SC's, A&M's, Auburn's, and widening the gap between us and UK, BG, Ark,etc.....yet we're having to overcome coaching screw ups weekly just to squeak by the weak teams and be somewhat competitive with the good teams.

Like maroonmania just said...our fan base is not delusional (for the most part). If we are giving max effort from a player and coaching standpoint, you can damn near name the amount of time you can be our coach. But as soon as effort falls off and coaching starts costing us games...we don't accept that well. Most of our fans are hard workers. we don't expect the team to win them all or even win most of them every year...but we DO expect you to leave it on the field for 4 quarters and for our coaches to preach fundamentals and put our team in the best position to win. That's the only way we can be successful at MSU, and we know that.

A perfect example of the MSU fan base is the Stansbury vs Ray situation. Most people with any sense, are excited about the way Ray's team plays. Not because we are winning 25 games per year, but because they scrap for 4 quarters and we respect the shit out of that. Meanwhile, we hated watching Stansbury's undisciplined teams his last 4-5 years, even though they were winning and almost making the dance every year. Why?'because they were not giving max effort and had the potential to be so much better, but Stansbury didn't demand it.

Excellent! +1

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Exactly.

Smootness, I'm a little disappointed to hear that coming from you. I typically agree with most of your posts, but based on what you just posted,why do we even field a team? If none of us will ever be pleased, then why even play? You know that is not true. Hell, we were all pleased as shit during Mullen's first 3 seasons...even the one where we went 6-6 and then beat Wake. Why? Because we were playing hard and getting the most out of our talent. We were just losing to teams that were WAY better than us.

But now, we are starting to get pissed. Not because we think 6-6 is below our standards. But because our coach has got more talent than ever, but he isn't getting the most out of it anymore and he is making more mistakes with personnel and in-game decisions than he did his first season. We are now in a position to where we are closing the talent gap between us and the SC's, A&M's, Auburn's, and widening the gap between us and UK, BG, Ark,etc.....yet we're having to overcome coaching screw ups weekly just to squeak by the weak teams and be somewhat competitive with the good teams.

Like maroonmania just said...our fan base is not delusional (for the most part). If we are giving max effort from a player and coaching standpoint, you can damn near name the amount of time you can be our coach. But as soon as effort falls off and coaching starts costing us games...we don't accept that well. Most of our fans are hard workers. we don't expect the team to win them all or even win most of them every year...but we DO expect you to leave it on the field for 4 quarters and for our coaches to preach fundamentals and put our team in the best position to win. That's the only way we can be successful at MSU, and we know that.

A perfect example of the MSU fan base is the Stansbury vs Ray situation. Most people with any sense, are excited about the way Ray's team plays. Not because we are winning 25 games per year, but because they scrap for 4 quarters and we respect the shit out of that. Meanwhile, we hated watching Stansbury's undisciplined teams his last 4-5 years, even though they were winning and almost making the dance every year. Why?'because they were not giving max effort and had the potential to be so much better, but Stansbury didn't demand it.

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Let me add that yes, losing sucks, but the team playing their asses off until 00:00 in the 4th gives us some hope that they'll start winning some of the close, competitive games against the better teams.

What pisses all of us off, or should, is the way our coaches (mainly head coach) throw in the towel in the 3rd/4th quarters and have a shit eating grin on the sidelines with a "at least we tried for a half" bullshit attitude. That's what piss us off. If the team that showed up this past Saturday, had shown up like that the first half of the season, we'd have at least one more, if not, 2-3 more wins. That's what pisses us off. Dan now knows his job is riding on the last month of the season and we finally see a team playing with passion and urgency. To become an upper tier program you have to play with this urgency from week 1, not November when a bowl game hinges on winning your last 2 games. This is what pisses us off. We know we have more talent than we showed games 1-7, but we did less with more. This has become a recurring theme of Mullen the last 2+ seasons. This is what pisses us off. Wake the hell up and see the reality of what's been goin on.

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Originally Posted by smootness

That isn't true. It seems true now, but once we started beating teams like that every once in a while, the expectations would grow and people would be upset it was only every once in a while. You would see people all over our message boards saying, 'Mullen has done a good job up until this point, but we have to start beating these teams more consistently. I mean, we clearly have the ability to do it but we keep making dumb mistakes that keep us from doing it consistently. I don't know if he's the guy to take us to the next step. Winning 8-9 games is fine, but when you have 4 gimme OOC games every year, then add Kentucky and (insert 1-2 teams that are down at the time), you're only talking about one extra win a year. We can do better than that'.

That is the cycle, and I'm not even saying it's a bad thing; it's natural. But it's funny to me to see fans say something like, 'If we just did x or y, we would be content'. Naturally, once you reach a certain level, that is your new basis for expectations. When you are terrible, all you want is a bowl game here and there. But then when you go to a couple of bowl games, you want them every year. Then when you're making a bowl game every year, you no longer think of yourself as the same program you were when you were terrible. In the fan's mind, you're now a better program than you were then, and just going to bowls isn't good enough. You expect to start beating some really good teams here and there. Once you get to that point, you expect to continue to get better and beat them consistently.

I know it may sound absurd to think of Mississippi State fans expecting to compete for championships every year, but that is the natural progression if you keep improving. The expectations don't just remain constant. 4 years ago, we weren't saying, 'We just need to go to some bowl games and beat top 10 teams'. We weren't even saying we needed to go to a bowl every year. Now we are. This is how it works.

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Outstanding post. I'm not sure it's a bad thing either, but it is predictable and a cyclical.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Outstanding post. I'm not sure it's a bad thing either, but it is predictable and a cyclical.

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Nope, not an outstanding post because its not true. Yea, maybe if we were winning 8-9 games for 10 years or more but we are a LONG way from anything like that. And I really doubt it would happen even then.

Alot of valid points.

My issue with Mullen is the way he uses the players. It's the lack of getting a QB and that will catch up to us next year! It's the plays called in situations like 3rd down with 6 inches to get a first, and we are throwing the ball instead of using the 2 plays to get a 1st down on their 1.

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Originally Posted by smootness

That isn't true. It seems true now, but once we started beating teams like that every once in a while, the expectations would grow and people would be upset it was only every once in a while. You would see people all over our message boards saying, 'Mullen has done a good job up until this point, but we have to start beating these teams more consistently. I mean, we clearly have the ability to do it but we keep making dumb mistakes that keep us from doing it consistently. I don't know if he's the guy to take us to the next step. Winning 8-9 games is fine, but when you have 4 gimme OOC games every year, then add Kentucky and (insert 1-2 teams that are down at the time), you're only talking about one extra win a year. We can do better than that'.

That is the cycle, and I'm not even saying it's a bad thing; it's natural. But it's funny to me to see fans say something like, 'If we just did x or y, we would be content'. Naturally, once you reach a certain level, that is your new basis for expectations. When you are terrible, all you want is a bowl game here and there. But then when you go to a couple of bowl games, you want them every year. Then when you're making a bowl game every year, you no longer think of yourself as the same program you were when you were terrible. In the fan's mind, you're now a better program than you were then, and just going to bowls isn't good enough. You expect to start beating some really good teams here and there. Once you get to that point, you expect to continue to get better and beat them consistently.

I know it may sound absurd to think of Mississippi State fans expecting to compete for championships every year, but that is the natural progression if you keep improving. The expectations don't just remain constant. 4 years ago, we weren't saying, 'We just need to go to some bowl games and beat top 10 teams'. We weren't even saying we needed to go to a bowl every year. Now we are. This is how it works.

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well obviously, but my point was that right now if we won 1-2 games against the better half of our schedule, we'd be content for a awhile. that would also lead to landing a few better recruits, which improves our talent level, and puts us in position to expect to win another game against the better half of the schedule. should we not want to improve? as of right now we are basically 0-fer against the better part of our schedule in the mullen era. he took us from being shit to being a consistent bowl team, now it's time for the next step which is winning 1-2 games against bama/lsu/a&m/usce/okie st.

i also think that if you get to the point of regularly winning 9-10 games (roughly .500 against the better half of the schedule), you are a few lucky breaks from making a sec title run/national title run any given season.