Anti-Leach doesn't mean anti-pass

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Originally Posted by RiverCityDawg

Well there were some adjustments made against Vandy that lead to 17 quick points when they were rushing 3, dropping 8. After they stopped that and started bringing 4 or 5, those adjustments didn't work anymore. Not excusing everything, but there literally were some adjustments that actually worked. Problem now is that we're playing a true freshman QB, true freshmen RBs, constant shuffle at OL and very few/no playmakers at WRs. The games to win were the Ark and UK games but poor QB play and crap OL play did us in.

But let's be honest, we're 6 games in during a crazy COVID year and you're declaring this a decided failure because that was your thought as soon as the hire was made. It's bias confirmation for you. Not that it's not good now, of course it's not, but that it's never going to be turned around. We simply don't know the medium/long term outlook and anyone saying so is biased and/or just guessing just as much as those saying it's definitely going to be turned around.

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I was excited when the hire was made. I was even more on board after the LSU game. I've learned a lot more about Leach and his system since that time. I'm judging based on what I'm seeing and reading. Just read Jimmy Lake's comments. Read former player comments. Look at the adjustments everyone, literally everyone on the Leach coaching tree have made. Leach hasn't adapted at all. He running the same plays he's ran his whole career. I'm still holding out on the 1% of hope that Leach will adapt his system for next season, but I haven't seen any evidence to support that notion.

That is, if you idiots don't run him off before he gets it going. He isn't some up and coming guy but a proven one.

You guys are kiling me. Let him do his job, give him the time to do it and shut up already. Three years in and it's shit then OK but this year? Hell no!

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Originally Posted by Hot Rock

This anti-Leach crowd is the worst. They have this idea in their head that football has to be played their way. Leach ain't doing it your way but his and guess what, it works. He will get it done and you will eat crow.

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Not anti-Leach. I'm anti-sucking. I'm anti-one dimensional. I'm anti-throwing the ball 60 times against a 3 man rush.

msstate7, how many offensive points have we averaged since LSU?

Well, it's also ok to not like what you see on offense, but not demand we fire people after half a season.
And I stick with my opinion that you still have to be somewhat balanced on offense to be great. Hate what I've watched. But I'll wait. This season is a steaming pile of burnt trash. Next needs to show me something.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Well, it's also ok to not like what you see on offense, but not demand we fire people after half a season.
And I stick with my opinion that you still have to be somewhat balanced on offense to be great. Hate what I've watched. But I'll wait. This season is a steaming pile of burnt trash. Next needs to show me something.

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I haven't called for him to be fired. The contract that Cohen gave him means we are stuck for at least 2 more years. But he will be a failure if he doesn't add in some semblance of a running attack.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Not anti-Leach. I'm anti-sucking. I'm anti-one dimensional. I'm anti-throwing the ball 60 times against a 3 man rush.

msstate7, how many offensive points have we averaged since LSU?

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~ 10 ppg, I think

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

I was excited when the hire was made. I was even more on board after the LSU game. I've learned a lot more about Leach and his system since that time. I'm judging based on what I'm seeing and reading. Just read Jimmy Lake's comments. Read former player comments. Look at the adjustments everyone, literally everyone on the Leach coaching tree have made. Leach hasn't adapted at all. He running the same plays he's ran his whole career. I'm still holding out on the 1% of hope that Leach will adapt his system for next season, but I haven't seen any evidence to support that notion.

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Yet Leach has been more successful than many of those from his coaching tree. Kingsbury wasn't near the college coach Leach has been, Holgerson hasn't been as successful, Riley was given a top program so a completely different context as Leach.

We didn't lose to Arkansas and UK because they solved the riddle that defeats this scheme every time, we lost because we can't run our scheme yet. If it was just the scheme, WSU would have never had any success against Oregon, USC or any other team that out recruited them and dropped 7 or 8 in coverage. Yet they did. Every time? No. Because less talented teams NEVER get the best of more talented teams every time. But they exceeded what you would think they should do based on talent profile.

There is a discussion to be had about whether our inability to run the scheme THIS year is the fault of coaching or not, but we're not in a position to make any grand declarations on the scheme as a whole in a normal-ish year going forward. Not yet.

And finally, I seem to recall you specifically saying you were against any coach that doesn't run the QB sneak. That it was just that simple for you. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, but that sounds like someone who has their mind made up going in.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

~ 10 ppg, I think

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Yep, that's working well Hot Rock. Not to mention it's the most boring brand of football I have seen in 40+ years of watching football.

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Originally Posted by RiverCityDawg

Yet Leach has been more successful than many of those from his coaching tree. Kingsbury wasn't near the college coach Leach has been, Holgerson hasn't been as successful, Riley was given a top program so a completely different context as Leach.

We didn't lose to Arkansas and UK because they solved the riddle that defeats this scheme every time, we lost because we can't run our scheme yet. If it was just the scheme, WSU would have never had any success against Oregon, USC or any other team that out recruited them and dropped 7 or 8 in coverage. Yet they did. Every time? No. Because less talented teams NEVER get the best of more talented teams every time. But they exceeded what you would think they should do based on talent profile.

There is a discussion to be had about whether our inability to run the scheme THIS year is the fault of coaching or not, but we're not in a position to make any grand declarations on the scheme as a whole in a normal-ish year going forward. Not yet.

And finally, I seem to recall you specifically saying you were against any coach that doesn't run the QB sneak. That it was just that simple for you. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, but that sounds like someone who has their mind made up going in.

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agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

I was excited when the hire was made. I was even more on board after the LSU game. I've learned a lot more about Leach and his system since that time. I'm judging based on what I'm seeing and reading. Just read Jimmy Lake's comments. Read former player comments. Look at the adjustments everyone, literally everyone on the Leach coaching tree have made. Leach hasn't adapted at all. He running the same plays he's ran his whole career. I'm still holding out on the 1% of hope that Leach will adapt his system for next season, but I haven't seen any evidence to support that notion.

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this is exactly where I'm at ... I was excited about the hire and still was after the Arky game but started seeing things I really questioned after the Kentucky game .... I was also originally excited about JoMo at first but it didn't take to long before I realized maybe he was in a little over his head in SEC competition as a HC ... I still tried to give him the benefit of the doubt after doing nothing creative that first year - He ran Fitz to death and the entire world KNEW what was coming on 3rd & 5 .... Next season we all know how that went.
I'm still behind Leach and I've always thought that you give a new coach at least 3 years minimum before making any tough decisions which I and others are still willing to do unless it becomes glaringly obviousthat he just won't work out here ..... and that is kinda where we are at with Leach - hoping to see some innovation or adaptation to let us build up some faith in his approach to competing in the SEC. The SEC has had an awful lot of openings for head coaches in the past 20 years and there must be a reason it took this long ... and this school to bring him here.
I and others may complain somewhat but it doesn't mean we all want him fired - just want to see some glimpses now to know that he is deserving of 3 or 4 more years because it won't be easy to keep the fanbase without that encouragement or hope

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Joe nuked our football program, not Leach.

I'm not sure Leach has actually kicked anyone off the team or is them quitting because the standards are high the same as kicking them off?

Who cut the limbs off?

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Disagree. Culture wise, yeah Joe nuked it. Football wise, well Leach did that part.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Not anti-Leach. I'm anti-sucking. I'm anti-one dimensional. I'm anti-throwing the ball 60 times against a 3 man rush.

msstate7, how many offensive points have we averaged since LSU?

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Right there with you Hoops. If we are gonna run something 60-70 times a game it better be something that works. If not, do something else.

I think some of our player issues not getting on board are they see that it isn't gonna work. They want to compete and win not suck every play. Seen the same thing play out at work many times. People don't get on board or fall off when they see it doesn't work (the new program).

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Disagree. Culture wise, yeah Joe nuked it. Football wise, well Leach did that part.

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I don't agree. We were pretty terrible in the Music City Bowl and last season.

Did you miss our defensive effort vs Auburn & A&M last year?

Does Leach get no credit for building a culture that has made our defense night and day better this season?

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

I think some of our player issues not getting on board are they see that it isn't gonna work. They want to compete and win not suck every play. Seen the same thing play out at work many times. People don't get on board or fall off when they see it doesn't work (the new program).

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So our players are smarter about football than they guy that's won for 20 years? Interesting

Just think about how ridiculous what you're saying is

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I don't agree. We were pretty terrible in the Music City Bowl and last season.

Did you miss our defensive effort vs Auburn & A&M last year?

Does Leach get no credit for building a culture that has made our defense night and day better this season?

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I didn't say we were a good team last year but we had some talent - proof this year's D.

Where did I not give Leach credit for correcting some culture stuff?

Reading comprehension 101 gun.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

I didn't say we were a good team last year but we had some talent - proof this year's D.

Where did I not give Leach credit for correcting some culture stuff?

Reading comprehension 101 gun.

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IDK man, you been saying some pretty unreasonable stuff

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

So our players are smarter about football than they guy that's won for 20 years? Interesting

Just think about how ridiculous what you're saying is

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Not saying Leach hasn't had success but he isn't a football god either. He never played football so you think there is some stuff he doesn't understand? Yep. The coaches that find the right balance actually played football.

Again my analogy to business world. The corporation may be successful but it ain't always the CEO or guy at top for the reasons. I see it all the time some outsider comes in and tries to tell people a new way (wrong way to do something) that the experts in the field have been doing for 30 years. They know it won't work, seen it never work. Well they may do it but they ain't buying in. The fact it doesn't work has nothing to do with them buying in because they still do the job. Just flawed philosophy.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

IDK man, you been saying some pretty unreasonable stuff

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You may not agree or understand, that is OK but I ain't said nothing unreasonable. You have misquoted me cause you didn't understand. Not the same thing as unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Not saying Leach hasn't had success but he isn't a football god either. He never played football so you think there is some stuff he doesn't understand? Yep. The coaches that find the right balance actually played football.

Again my analogy to business world. The corporation may be successful but it ain't always the CEO or guy at top for the reasons. I see it all the time some outsider comes in and tries to tell people a new way (wrong way to do something) that the experts in the field have been doing for 30 years. They know it won't work, seen it never work. Well they may do it but they ain't buying in. The fact it doesn't work has nothing to do with them buying in because they still do the job. Just flawed philosophy.

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