Remember when om thought they had a basketball program...

I'm still not convinced Ben is up to the challenge to compete at a higher level in today's game and I hope I'm proven wrong. The remainder of the season will be very telling one way or the other.

We still have a big advantage over upiss in hoops because we a have more historical brand along with a big name coach which helps in recruiting. I love the way we've played the last 2 games but based on how long Ben's been here and how long Kermit's been at upiss, I think the jury is still out until Kermit gets a couple more crootin classes in. The talent level difference between the 2 teams couldn't be any bigger right now. Ben's record against teams with similar or better talent levels has not been good.

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Originally Posted by OLJWales

I'm still not convinced Ben is up to the challenge to compete at a higher level in today's game and I hope I'm proven wrong. The remainder of the season will be very telling one way or the other.

We still have a big advantage over upiss in hoops because we a have more historical brand along with a big name coach which helps in recruiting. I love the way we've played the last 2 games but based on how long Ben's been here and how long Kermit's been at upiss, I think the jury is still out until Kermit gets a couple more crootin classes in. The talent level difference between the 2 teams couldn't be any bigger right now. Ben's record against teams with similar or better talent levels has not been good.

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Howland took over the worst program in the SEC. Kermit took over a program who had avg 20 wins a year for the past decade. Let's stop acting like Kermit had to rebuild anything. AK last year the team quit because they knew AK wasn't coming back.

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

Howland took over the worst program in the SEC. Kermit took over a program who had avg 20 wins a year for the past decade. Let's stop acting like Kermit had to rebuild anything. AK last year the team quit because they knew AK wasn't coming back.

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It shouldn't take that long to build a program with 4 and 5 star players on your roster. His overall tenure at State has been a "less with more" style. Until that changes, and I hope it does, we will continue too see a very lethargic fan base which is a reflection of the overall performance and effort so far from the players and coaches.

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Originally Posted by OLJWales

It shouldn't take that long to build a program with 4 and 5 star players on your roster. His overall tenure at State has been a "less with more" style. Until that changes, and I hope it does, we will continue too see a very lethargic fan base which is a reflection of the overall performance and effort so far from the players and coaches.

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How long to build a program? Rick Ray avg 12 wins a year for 3 seasons. Howland won 14 his 1st year, went .500 his 2nd year, won 25 & made the NIT semis his 3rd year, won 23 & got a 5 seed his 4th year. He's going to win 20+ & has a chance to make back to back tourney appearances since 08 & 09 & only the 4th time in program history. You guys are too busy bitching about what you don't like instead of seeing what he's done & doing. He's doing just as much as you guys beloved Stans but you can't stop bitching to notice. Sorry rant over.

We need to let the year play out. It is still very possible that we make the tourney and win a game or two. If that happens I don't see how anybody can argue with the trajectory of the program since howland took over

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Originally Posted by OLJWales

It shouldn't take that long to build a program with 4 and 5 star players on your roster. His overall tenure at State has been a "less with more" style. Until that changes, and I hope it does, we will continue too see a very lethargic fan base which is a reflection of the overall performance and effort so far from the players and coaches.

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A less lethargic fan base would go a long way towards improving the effort from the players....

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

How long to build a program? Rick Ray avg 12 wins a year for 3 seasons. Howland won 14 his 1st year, went .500 his 2nd year, won 25 & made the NIT semis his 3rd year, won 23 & got a 5 seed his 4th year. He's going to win 20+ & has a chance to make back to back tourney appearances since 08 & 09 & only the 4th time in program history. You guys are too busy bitching about what you don't like instead of seeing what he's done & doing. He's doing just as much as you guys beloved Stans but you can't stop bitching to notice. Sorry rant over.

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/thread

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Originally Posted by OLJWales

It shouldn't take that long to build a program with 4 and 5 star players on your roster. His overall tenure at State has been a "less with more" style. Until that changes, and I hope it does, we will continue too see a very lethargic fan base which is a reflection of the overall performance and effort so far from the players and coaches.

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Totally agree. Howland's teams have underachieved since day one. I could go on all day about the problems I see, but for most of us there's no need to. The people that are still giving him the benefit of the doubt should try placing some bets on his teams. They'll start to see the light really quick.

Looking at NM State's roster, they have 2 players that even have a rating and they are low 3 star players. The rest are "N/A"

La Tech has (4) 3 star players and the rest are "N/A"

State has R. Perry (.98), Ado (.92), N. Witherspoon (.98), DJ Steward (.94), R. Woodard (.97), T. Carter (.94), I. Molinar (.89)

We had NO business losing to the teams mentioned above. NONE. AT HOME.

We had NO business getting blown out against a sub par Bamer team and we've damned sure gotta enough talent to hold serve against AU who prolly has equal talent as us.

There's absolutely NO reason for our team to not be able to continue with the improvement we've seen over the last 2 games. NONE.

We are sitting on something more urgent than the NCAA Bubble for right now. We've got to get the Hump Crowds of Old back. That's mission numero uno for now. State fans didn't give Stans great crowds because the team "needed the support". He and the players EARNED and DESERVED it. Once you EARN it, the much needed fan support will follow.

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Originally Posted by OLJWales

Looking at NM State's roster, they have 2 players that even have a rating and they are low 3 star players. The rest are "N/A"

La Tech has (4) 3 star players and the rest are "N/A"

State has R. Perry (.98), Ado (.92), N. Witherspoon (.98), DJ Steward (.94), R. Woodard (.97), T. Carter (.94), I. Molinar (.89)

We had NO business losing to the teams mentioned above. NONE. AT HOME.

We had NO business getting blown out against a sub par Bamer team and we've damned sure gotta enough talent to hold serve against AU who prolly has equal talent as us.

There's absolutely NO reason for our team to not be able to continue with the improvement we've seen over the last 2 games. NONE.

We are sitting on something more urgent than the NCAA Bubble for right now. We've got to get the Hump Crowds of Old back. That's mission numero uno for now. State fans didn't give Stans great crowds because the team "needed the support". He and the players EARNED and DESERVED it. Once you EARN it, the much needed fan support will follow.

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But you can't cherry pick games in basketball. It's not football. In basketball, more talented teams lose all the time. KY has three losses to teams sub 100. The better barometer for basketball is looking at the season as a whole. Let the season play out.

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Originally Posted by OLJWales

Looking at NM State's roster, they have 2 players that even have a rating and they are low 3 star players. The rest are "N/A"

La Tech has (4) 3 star players and the rest are "N/A"

State has R. Perry (.98), Ado (.92), N. Witherspoon (.98), DJ Steward (.94), R. Woodard (.97), T. Carter (.94), I. Molinar (.89)

We had NO business losing to the teams mentioned above. NONE. AT HOME.

We had NO business getting blown out against a sub par Bamer team and we've damned sure gotta enough talent to hold serve against AU who prolly has equal talent as us.

There's absolutely NO reason for our team to not be able to continue with the improvement we've seen over the last 2 games. NONE.

We are sitting on something more urgent than the NCAA Bubble for right now. We've got to get the Hump Crowds of Old back. That's mission numero uno for now. State fans didn't give Stans great crowds because the team "needed the support". He and the players EARNED and DESERVED it. Once you EARN it, the much needed fan support will follow.

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Now break it down for

Stephen F Austin beating Duke
Wofford beating UNC
Evansville beating Kentucky

Upsets happen every year in college basketball.

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

Now break it down for

Stephen F Austin beating Duke
Wofford beating UNC
Evansville beating Kentucky

Upsets happen every year in college basketball.

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I get that. Everybody gets that. I'm looking at the whole picture of his State Tenure.

Based on his State Work in it's entirety , he should be feeling pressure to continue the momentum that's going now. It Is Time. NOW.

The waiting has been too prolonged. Howland has too much experience to be squandering talent and not getting the same HUMP Action that Stans did.

I'm hoping he can get the job done and retire from hoops at State.

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Originally Posted by OLJWales

I get that. Everybody gets that. I'm looking at the whole picture of his State Tenure.

Based on his State Work in it's entirety , he should be feeling pressure to continue the momentum that's going now. It Is Time. NOW.

The waiting has been too prolonged. Howland has too much experience to be squandering talent and not getting the same HUMP Action that Stans did.

I'm hoping he can get the job done and retire from hoops at State.

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You're the reason he's not getting the Hump action not him. He's doing exactly what Stans did but you're too blinded to see. Stans would lose a ton of WTF games every year & have us on the bubble going into the SEC tourney. Stop acting like Stans had us as this powerhouse program that we're trying to get back to. Those SEC West banners are really making you think we're more than we were. This 3 year run Howland is having is what Stans was doing. I'm sorry you & others can't see that. You're missing out. Sorry for you.

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Originally Posted by Joebob

Totally agree. Howland's teams have underachieved since day one. I could go on all day about the problems I see, but for most of us there's no need to. The people that are still giving him the benefit of the doubt should try placing some bets on his teams. They'll start to see the light really quick.

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I have been disappointed in Howland's performance because I had very high hopes, but it's not like he's shitting the bed or anything close to it. We have shown steady improvement. If we make the tournament this year, he will have resurrected our program. If this is the peak and we basically are consistently repeating stansbury's peak sans the road warrior year, so that we have talented but underperforming teams that flame out early in the tournament, I'm fine riding that ride until Howland retires.

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

We shouldn't have hired Kermit then. At that time you wanted a guy who had coached his last 12 seasons with no NCAA tourney & had just had his 1st 20 win season at MTSU. That was his 10th season at MTSU by the way. If Kermit had graduated from Missouri we would've killed Stricklin for even interviewing him. So again MSU fans falling in love with the he's 1 of us mantra instead of a good HC.

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Agree with all that until the point that your are looking at hiring Rick Ray, who was not even the top assistant on his team. At that point, you at least interview Kermit if not hire him. Even all these years later, I am blown away by the Rick Ray hire. It was just a weird as hell direction to go in.

And I am not running Ray down. He came in and gave it his best and was gracious when it didn't work out. That's all you can ask for.

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

You're the reason he's not getting the Hump action not him. He's doing exactly what Stans did but you're too blinded to see. Stans would lose a ton of WTF games every year & have us on the bubble going into the SEC tourney. Stop acting like Stans had us as this powerhouse program that we're trying to get back to. Those SEC West banners are really making you think we're more than we were. This 3 year run Howland is having is what Stans was doing. I'm sorry you & others can't see that. You're missing out. Sorry for you.

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You're kinda fired up about this ain't ya? LOL

No worries. You're right about it being like Stans last 4 or 5 years, but it's not like his 1st 4 or 5. And I didn't care at all for Stans' last 4 or 5 years. I don't like to see primadonnas like Gordon dribbling around the last 3 or so minutes of every game launching shot after shot to win game and never making any of them. Some guys like to think they MJ and ... they just ain't. In either case tho Stans never made it past 1st weekend of NCAAT.

Howland should do that this year with this team and probably should win or come in 2nd in SEC with this roster. Probably dug too big a hole for that to happen now tho. In my particular case ... I'm not getting crazy excited just yet. I'm waiting to see if a true turnaround has happened.

I will hate it if Perry goes after this season and there is really not much to show for it. He has dominated 2 weak SEC teams and I want to see him lead this team to defeat somebody who is actually good.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

You're kinda fired up about this ain't ya? LOL

No worries. You're right about it being like Stans last 4 or 5 years, but it's not like his 1st 4 or 5. And I didn't care at all for Stans' last 4 or 5 years. I don't like to see primadonnas like Gordon dribbling around the last 3 or so minutes of every game launching shot after shot to win game and never making any of them. Some guys like to think they MJ and ... they just ain't. In either case tho Stans never made it past 1st weekend of NCAAT.

Howland should do that this year with this team and probably should win or come in 2nd in SEC with this roster. Probably dug too big a hole for that to happen now tho. In my particular case ... I'm not getting crazy excited just yet. I'm waiting to see if a true turnaround has happened.

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This is not like Stans's last 4 or 5 years. It's pretty close to his first run if he makes it back to the NCAa this year. Of course the next year would have to be equivalent to the road warrior team to match it.

It will be close to his second run of NCAA teams, but that last NCAA bid was backed into by running through the SEC tournament, so if we earn a bid in the regular season, this will be a little better.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

This is not like Stans's last 4 or 5 years. It's pretty close to his first run if he makes it back to the NCAa this year. Of course the next year would have to be equivalent to the road warrior team to match it.

It will be close to his second run of NCAA teams, but that last NCAA bid was backed into by running through the SEC tournament, so if we earn a bid in the regular season, this will be a little better.

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It's somewhere in-between IMO. Stans let primadonnas take over the last 4 or 5 years IMO. Howland has had a couple the last couple of years he hasn't reined in. Stans' 1st 4 or 5 years they played good team ball IMO. No primas.

Howland has done an excellent job getting talent to MSU. Now he needs to coach it like he can or used to could IMO.

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Originally Posted by OLJWales

I get that. Everybody gets that. I'm looking at the whole picture of his State Tenure.

Based on his State Work in it's entirety , he should be feeling pressure to continue the momentum that's going now. It Is Time. NOW.

The waiting has been too prolonged. Howland has too much experience to be squandering talent and not getting the same HUMP Action that Stans did.

I'm hoping he can get the job done and retire from hoops at State.

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Unreal... The Stands Cult is amazing ..