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10-30-2019, 01:59 PM
ShotgunDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD2020

Then you're as bad as Joe. Shrader has won no games starting. KT is undefeated and beat a Heisman winner.

That's just a ridiculous stupid argument. KT started a game in which we were running Mullen's offense with an outstanding team culture. Shrader is BY FAR the better QB prospect. It's not close

Justin Verlander is 0-6 in World Series Games so I guess he sucks as well
10-30-2019, 02:01 PM
Ifyouonlyknew

Quote:

Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

When you compare the stats of KT versus Shrader - its not as clear cut as some would leave you to believe.

I still think its been a mistake to not run the KT/Mullen offense this year. Now if KT is refusing to play - then I'm just wrong - but I haven't heard that at all.

Not saying who I think is better but KT stats are vs OM, Peter Sirmon, & SFA. Shrader has played against 5 SEC schools, 3 on the road.

Also KT didn't return to the team to play. He came back to finish this semester since the transfer wasn't at the best time for him. He was only going to play if nobody else was available. Joe isn't overlooking KT they both agreed to this. KT was beaten out by Tommy. Tommy was the better QB but he's proven he can't stay healthy. Mayden is suspended 2/3 of the year so the job went to Shrader. Shrader has shown he's ready for SEC play & has taken the job & ran with it.
10-30-2019, 02:02 PM
Ifyouonlyknew

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD2020

Then you're as bad as Joe. Shrader has won no games starting. KT is undefeated and beat a Heisman winner.

You forgot the Kentucky game.
10-30-2019, 02:05 PM
HancockCountyDog

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I think the entire KT QB conversation is a hindsight 20/20, crappy, stupide discussion.

I'm the biggest Joe hater, but here are some thoughts.

1. KT couldn't run Joe's offense & Stevens can when healthy.
2. Blaming Joe for Stevens injuries is an insult to common sense & stupid.
3. If you believe that bringing Stevens in hurt the locker room, then I can see your point. But I'd also add that a healthy productive Stevens would have a good locker room as well.
4. Shrader is better than KT. He just is. In every facet, he's a better QB prospect. Don't argue this. If you think KT should've started so that we could preserve Shrader's RS, then Ok, but just realize that we would've been playing the 2nd best QB.

I just find the entire KT discussion be a loser argument made by justifiably angry people looking to kill Joe. I can find plenty of things to destroy Joe with other than this & you should too because the KT conversation is stupid.

Here is the part of the KT discussion I think you may be missing.

I agree with you that KT trying to run "Joe's offense" would most likely be a loser.

The problem is that why is Joe so dead set to run his offense. Last year -we went with the "Mullen" offense in A&M and Auburn and won those games. We lost the Florida and KY games trying to force into a QB that fits his system. I think that was a mistake, same way I think trying to force KT to run your offense is a mistake.

Look - KT was a special recruit/QB athlete that was built to run Mullen's offense. The fact that Joe has just decided to run his offense, talent be damned is what is causing so much of these problems.

You know why our OL has regressed? Because they are being asked to do things that they really aren't equipped to do. They are being asked to pass block for 5 seconds. They are being asked to move in space more. Our OL was recruited and coached to play down hill and create running lanes and give QB short amount of time for quick passes. The reason they look like shit now is because they are being asked to run a pro style offense. The same way Mullen tried to adapt his offense to Tyler Russell. We have not recruited well enough on the OL to have NFL OT's that can protect a pro style QB.

The frustration is simply chalking up KT as a lost cause because he can't run Joe's offense. So far - I haven't seen a QB run it well. At this point the season may be lost and its too late - but no one will convince me that KT couldn't have taken our OL and Kylin and scored points by running the ball.

I just don't believe so many people both inside and outside the program that said KT was the next big thing were wrong.
10-30-2019, 02:08 PM
MD2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

That's just a ridiculous stupid argument. KT started a game in which we were running Mullen's offense with an outstanding team culture. Shrader is BY FAR the better QB prospect. It's not close

Justin Verlander is 0-6 in World Series Games so I guess he sucks as well

Shrader is terrible right now. He hasn't scored a TD in the 1st quarter. Future potential only
10-30-2019, 02:09 PM
MD2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

You forgot the Kentucky game.

My bad
10-30-2019, 02:13 PM
bluelightstar

Quote:

Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

I just don't believe so many people both inside and outside the program that said KT was the next big thing were wrong.

That includes, of course, Shotgun himself.

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?51671-Keytaon-Thompson-Is-Currently-On-the-Field-Practicing-at-MSU

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?51194-Keytaon-Thompson-Is-Giving-Me-Warm-amp-Fuzzies

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?49495-Keytaon-Thompson

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?60474-Keytaon-Thompson
10-30-2019, 02:14 PM
HancockCountyDog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

Not saying who I think is better but KT stats are vs OM, Peter Sirmon, & SFA. Shrader has played against 5 SEC schools, 3 on the road.

Also KT didn't return to the team to play. He came back to finish this semester since the transfer wasn't at the best time for him. He was only going to play if nobody else was available. Joe isn't overlooking KT they both agreed to this. KT was beaten out by Tommy. Tommy was the better QB but he's proven he can't stay healthy. Mayden is suspended 2/3 of the year so the job went to Shrader. Shrader has shown he's ready for SEC play & has taken the job & ran with it.

I'm not saying Shrader won't be good - I think he can be good. I'm just saying the decision to go with Joe's offense this year was a mistake. I think putting your eggs in the Tommy basket because he can run your offense better was a mistake. I think losing a guy like KT who was well liked and fit the offense he was recruited to - and specifically the offense that would be on the field this year was a mistake.

If the agreement was that KT would be allowed back on the team - but wouldn't play unless there was an emergency - then I guess it is what it is, but I just hate that it came to that point.
10-30-2019, 02:18 PM
ShotgunDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

The problem is that why is Joe so dead set to run his offense..

I'm not a Joe fan, but why do you assume that Joe knows Mullen's offense? Joe's never ran the Mullen offense or coached under anyone who did.

We've never run the Mullen under Joe unless you are reducing that offense to simply the zone read.
10-30-2019, 02:19 PM
Ifyouonlyknew

These are the season stats for every True Freshman QB in the SEC who's started a game.

Bo Nix - 8 games/8 GS 110/204 53.9% 1458yds 12TD 6INT 127.5 Rating 59.5 QBR 62 carries 194yds 4TD

Brian Maurer - 5 games/3 GS 27/55 49.1% 426yds 2TD 5INT 108.0 Rating 66.6 QBR 4 carries 16yds 1TD

John Rys Plumlee - 5 games/3 GS 39/82 47.6% 456yds 4TD 1INT 107.9 Rating 64.1 QBR 86 carries 508yds 4TD

Garrett Shrader - 7 games/ GS 75/136 55.1% 1022yds 7TD 5INT 127.9 Ratimg 70.3 QBR 92 carries 504yds 3TD

He's showing that he has the potential to be an All SEC QB.
10-30-2019, 02:20 PM
ShotgunDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD2020

Shrader is terrible right now. He hasn't scored a TD in the 1st quarter. Future potential only

That has very little to do with Shrader. I think Shrader has been fantastic considering his terrible protection, dancing RB, & the terrible offensive system he's playing in.

He's completing 55% of his passes, ran for 504, & thrown for over 1,000 yards

If you're blaming Shrader for any of this, you clearly don't understand football
10-30-2019, 02:20 PM
Ifyouonlyknew

Quote:

Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

I'm not saying Shrader won't be good - I think he can be good. I'm just saying the decision to go with Joe's offense this year was a mistake. I think putting your eggs in the Tommy basket because he can run your offense better was a mistake. I think losing a guy like KT who was well liked and fit the offense he was recruited to - and specifically the offense that would be on the field this year was a mistake.

If the agreement was that KT would be allowed back on the team - but wouldn't play unless there was an emergency - then I guess it is what it is, but I just hate that it came to that point.

Yea but you don't bring in a coach & tell him don't run his offense. That's just not practical.
10-30-2019, 02:21 PM
ShotgunDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

These are the season stats for every True Freshman QB in the SEC who's started a game.

Bo Nix - 8 games/8 GS 110/204 53.9% 1458yds 12TD 6INT 127.5 Rating 59.5 QBR 62 carries 194yds 4TD

Brian Maurer - 5 games/3 GS 27/55 49.1% 426yds 2TD 5INT 108.0 Rating 66.6 QBR 4 carries 16yds 1TD

John Rys Plumlee - 5 games/3 GS 39/82 47.6% 456yds 4TD 1INT 107.9 Rating 64.1 QBR 86 carries 508yds 4TD

Garrett Shrader - 7 games/ GS 75/136 55.1% 1022yds 7TD 5INT 127.9 Ratimg 70.3 QBR 92 carries 504yds 3TD

He's showing that he has the potential to be an All SEC QB.

He's the best young QB in the SEC.

If you gave Shrader Auburn's offensive personnel this year, Auburn may be a natty contender. I fully believe he's better than Nix.
10-30-2019, 02:23 PM
ShotgunDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

I'm not saying Shrader won't be good - I think he can be good. I'm just saying the decision to go with Joe's offense this year was a mistake. I think putting your eggs in the Tommy basket because he can run your offense better was a mistake. I think losing a guy like KT who was well liked and fit the offense he was recruited to - and specifically the offense that would be on the field this year was a mistake.

If the agreement was that KT would be allowed back on the team - but wouldn't play unless there was an emergency - then I guess it is what it is, but I just hate that it came to that point.

Hindsight 20/20.

Bringing in Tommy was the right thing to do but it's blown up in his face.

Again, there are plenty of other things to obliterate Joe about than reducing things to this stupid level & coversation
10-30-2019, 02:23 PM
Ifyouonlyknew

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD2020

Shrader is terrible right now. He hasn't scored a TD in the 1st quarter. Future potential only

He threw a TD to Guidry against Auburn.
10-30-2019, 02:24 PM
coachnorm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

I think where it is going is the schools who continue to sign high school guys are going to developed two to three deep QB's on roster. Yes some of the QB's going to leave but once you start doing the portal thing you can't go back. That school better hope a good one inters the portal or they are going to be screwed. OK has not developed a QB in a long time. Who will they get? Right now you will have both LSU and OK needed QB's.

Talking about out of state development QB development, I would like to tell fellow elite doggers that the JUCOs come into play also. I can not expose the name, but I can expose the content. An elite high school quarterback was recruited into a Pac12 team. That quarterback was moved to receiver against his will. That player has contacted a JUCO and declared that he is leaving his Pac12 team to develop as a quarterback. That high school quarterback was lights out in his State 6A or Division 1 high school championship game. The converted quarterback got playing time in the Pac12. I suspect that the converted quarterback might get his wish and play somewhere in the future.
10-30-2019, 02:30 PM
HancockCountyDog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

Yea but you don't bring in a coach & tell him don't run his offense. That's just not practical.

Yeah - but when I hire a coach that knows offense I don't expect him to take a QB like Eli Manning and run the triple option or take a QB like Chris Relf and try and make him a pocket passer. I expect my highly skilled coach to come in and make do with what he is given not force his system on a bunch of players that aren't built for it. At least not in the first two years - especially with the defensive talent he was handed that was basically scheme proof.

He didn't run "his offense" against AU or A&M last year. Those were Mullen plays. Its not like its hard to simply turn on game film and figure out what Fitz or KT does well?
10-30-2019, 02:33 PM
Ifyouonlyknew

Quote:

Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Yeah - but when I hire a coach that knows offense I don't expect him to take a QB like Eli Manning and run the triple option or take a QB like Chris Relf and try and make him a pocket passer. I expect my highly skilled coach to come in and make do with what he is given not force his system on a bunch of players that aren't built for it. At least not in the first two years - especially with the defensive talent he was handed that was basically scheme proof.

He didn't run "his offense" against AU or A&M last year. Those were Mullen plays. Its not like its hard to simply turn on game film and figure out what Fitz or KT does well?

We're just going to agree to disagree.
10-30-2019, 02:35 PM
HancockCountyDog

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I'm not a Joe fan, but why do you assume that Joe knows Mullen's offense? Joe's never ran the Mullen offense or coached under anyone who did.

We've never run the Mullen under Joe unless you are reducing that offense to simply the zone read.

Go back and watch the AU and A&M games last year. Those were classic Mullen games. Fitz ran it 44 times in those two games. He threw it 39 times in those two games vs 58 in the games against KY and FL.

To Joe's credit I think he realized early on that Fitz couldn't run his offense and he switched to QB run offense. I just don't fully understand why he didn't give that offense more of a chance this year with KT, especially in the toss up games. I guess spilt milk and all.
10-30-2019, 02:38 PM
HancockCountyDog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

We're just going to agree to disagree.

I would assume you agree with the first part but disagree with the second part.

I can't imagine you disagree with the first part.

If he ran his offense against AU and A&M - then I agree, we will have to agree to disagree.

But you would agree that you don't expect him to come in and force his system on players ill equipped to run it, figuring you take your lumps and the team eventually learns how to run your offense, or do you? Its possible you do, but I would just be surprised by that.

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