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10-22-2018, 09:41 AM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by testuser

I seem to remember many said Mullen's offense was too difficult for RBs to figure out and that is why many didn't play early. So JoMo offense so difficult nobody knows what they are doing? Not buying it.

I don’t think anybody said Mullen’s offense was too difficult for RB’s. Many said that he (and Knox was this way about his personnel as well) wanted RB’s who also knew the blocking schemes and could protect the ball. That was a bigger point of emphasis with the previous staff.
10-22-2018, 09:43 AM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgday166

My belief ... Go watch ULL. We looked precise there. But our scout team is as good or better than ULL. But when you do have somewhat complex concepts which are quite different in philosophy from what you've been doing for 4 years, there is an adjustment period. Add in the fact that practices are soft and not at game speed against the defensive 1s very often if at all, and when we show up and game speed is there, stuff starts breaking down under pressure.

So what you're saying is all we need to do is get a decided advantage in talent, and this system works. Cool, shouldn't be a problem in the west
10-22-2018, 09:45 AM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

So what you're saying is all we need to do is get a decided advantage in talent, and this system works. Cool, shouldn't be a problem in the west

Especially when you Country Clubbing practices ... there I said it!
10-22-2018, 09:49 AM
Matty Dispatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgday166

Mullen's offense ran precisely at times. Saban's & Smart's do too. Precision is necessary for good offenses to click.

Yeah, I get it. But Mullen always talking about "relentless effort" and "straining". It was all about trying hard physically and with Moorhead he seems to focus on the mental aspect of the game in preparation. Just maybe Moorhead is moving too fast for our players, and not aware of the kind of intellect the Mississippi football player has.
10-22-2018, 09:57 AM
ShotgunDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgday166

So Gun, those had nuthin to do with the execution against OSU??? Go watch the last TD catch by WR in 2017 game. C'mon mane!

Of course great players make things easier but when WRs are running the wrong routes & it takes the QB a year to go through his reads, there are larger issues.
10-22-2018, 09:59 AM
Cooterpoot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty Dispatch

Yeah, I get it. But Mullen always talking about "relentless effort" and "straining". It was all about trying hard physically and with Moorhead he seems to focus on the mental aspect of the game in preparation. Just maybe Moorhead is moving too fast for our players, and not aware of the kind of intellect the Mississippi football player has.

You guys that continue to belittle the players' IQ are silly as hell. These guys aren't stupid. And as far as preparation, this is the most poorly prepared team at MSU in a long as I can remember. Maybe back to Felker.
10-22-2018, 09:59 AM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty Dispatch

Yeah, I get it. But Mullen always talking about "relentless effort" and "straining". It was all about trying hard physically and with Moorhead he seems to focus on the mental aspect of the game in preparation. Just maybe Moorhead is moving too fast for our players, and not aware of the kind of intellect the Mississippi football player has.

And the players who are not from MS, like all of our QB’s? Some of our WR’s, OL, and TE’s are not from MS either. Maybe it’s too complicated for southern players in general then and we have to recruit completely away from the south. Sorry but there are a ton of football players who are not “smart” but learn and run sofisticated offenses all over college and the NFL. It’s how you teach the concepts and break it down to what they can digest and execute. Some schemes are harder and take longer but that’s why you tailor what the players can execute effectively within your scheme.
10-22-2018, 09:59 AM
ShotgunDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty Dispatch

I think you could be right here. I'm not sure we are going to be able to find the time if guys he wants to run his system from an intelligence standpoint. Not that it's so difficult, but he's obsessive about "attention to detail" and "precision". That's not really the SEC way - it's more about strength and toughness than finesse and out-smarting folks. He's probably excel at Vandy, but not sure if MSU is going to work. We'll see.

Good points.

He gets to recruit his QBs though & Shrader is a good start. Also, even dumber players should be able to grasp the system after running it for a year or so.
10-22-2018, 10:00 AM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Of course great players make things easier but when WRs are running the wrong routes & it takes the QB a year to go through his reads, there are larger issues.

So we pinning all the blame on the players. Maybe the coaches aren't coaching it well enough. They learned under Mullen. Dak said his nfl transition was so easy bc Mullen's system was very similar to the cowboys. Mullen wasn't running a HS offense
10-22-2018, 10:05 AM
Matty Dispatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

And the players who are not from MS, like all of our QB’s? Some of our WR’s, OL, and TE’s are not from MS either. Maybe it’s too complicated for southern players in general then and we have to recruit completely away from the south. Sorry but there are a ton of football players who are not “smart” but learn and run sofisticated offenses all over college and the NFL. It’s how you teach the concepts and break it down to what they can digest and execute. Some schemes are harder and take longer but that’s why you tailor what the players can execute effectively within your scheme.

That's why I said maybe he's moving too fast. Maybe he's not making sure they understand the concepts because previously he went at this speed and everything worked out. It's not that they can't learn the system, but maybe they are just lost right now and that's on the coach for not making sure they understand it.
10-22-2018, 10:16 AM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty Dispatch

That's why I said maybe he's moving too fast. Maybe he's not making sure they understand the concepts because previously he went at this speed and everything worked out. It's not that they can't learn the system, but maybe they are just lost right now and that's on the coach for not making sure they understand it.

I can agree with that mostly. But 7 games into the season we should not still be lost offensively like we showed Sat. QB threw bad, don’t get me wrong but there is a whole lot of wrong offensively with multiple players and every game besides Auburn is struggling with identity, cohesiveness, rythem, execution, scheme and adjustments. And honestly even Auburn had multiple moments that struggled. But why not build off of that plan for the last 2 weeks and keep adjusting from that point? The most simplistic call executed well is better than the perfect play call executed poorly. What SEC game did we execute the best in? Why change so much from that? Even if LSU stopped it you have something of an identity from that, we hit them with something different for a FG but why not use a RB motion for at least one play in the red zone?
10-22-2018, 10:22 AM
Cooterpoot

All those new wrinkles we worked on last two weeks- QB Draw and QB Power. Freaking genius I tell you!!! Shades of Rocky Felker but with the QB. I gave Moorhead half the season so to show some kind of improvement. I mean, everybody said it took 4 or 5 games at Penn State to improve. I think it's getting worse. Aside from AU, I know it's been worse.
We had 2 weeks to prepare for LSU and we did what? And we've got Matt Wyatt telling us the whole offense is dysfunctional but so many just want to blame our QB.
10-22-2018, 10:50 AM
BB30

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWADAWG

There were several times that I saw receivers wide open but Fitz through to a different receiver with tight or double coverage. At least one of those were a likely touchdown if open receiver gets it. A change in QB may not fix everything but it would matter.

I would like to see this offense run with a QB that can make reasonably quick reads and hit open receivers. He doesn't need to make the miracle throws just the throws you expect from an average college QB. Then we could see if the offense can work in the SEC. It may still crash and burn but right now we don't know. Right now there are too many variables that suck to know which variable has the greatest influence.

I agree. I know Tua is a freak but I watched his highlights from this season up to this point. The dude gets through his progressions so quick. It looks like Tua is throwing to wide open guys, which he is but alot of those guys were his 2nd or 3rd option sometimes the 4th.

We have guys getting open, Fitz just does a terrible job of seeing the defense and getting through progressions. He sometimes makes it to his second option but most of the time it seems like he is making his decision on where the ball is going to go pre snap and just doesn't adjust at all to what the defense does post snap.
10-22-2018, 10:51 AM
Percho

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

You guys that continue to belittle the players' IQ are silly as hell. These guys aren't stupid. And as far as preparation, this is the most poorly prepared team at MSU in a long as I can remember. Maybe back to Felker.

Thank you. People need to, think, just a little, before they type.
10-22-2018, 10:52 AM
MetEdDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

But Moorhead has track record.

The results are similar but the resume and track records aren't similar.

Again, you can choose to look at this intelligently or like a meat head

This. People are like Moorhead sucks, he's not that smart. Do some of us really think that everything everyone does should instantly work for us? His background is UCONN, Fordham, and Penn State. If you put UCONN, Fordham, Penn State, and MSU in the same sentence, we are most assuredly the outlier. Even though Fordham is the lower division school, it's a private institution with a crap ton of smart kids, including the football team. So I'm going to use my brain and say hey, Moorhead has literally been successful EVERY other place he's been and choose not to be a homer and think we are somehow the same.

Go look at the makeup of his previous teams and tell me there isn't a big difference. We have a different type of player and it's going to take time to make it right. What will really tell me what's happening is how our recruiting class finishes. If we finish Top 25 in recruiting this year and go 7-5, that should tell you all you need to know because we will have massively missed expectations and been a major disappointment. But hopefully our fan base realizes that our team makeup is different than the team makeup Moorhead has had before. And yes this offense places a lot on the QB, and our QB doesn't know how to handle that. He ran a triple option one year in high school, and ran a very run heavy, one read offense under Mullen. That's not what we are running and that's not what Moorhead has developed.
10-22-2018, 10:58 AM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

This. People are like Moorhead sucks, he's not that smart. Do some of us really think that everything everyone does should instantly work for us? His background is UCONN, Fordham, and Penn State. If you put UCONN, Fordham, Penn State, and MSU in the same sentence, we are most assuredly the outlier. Even though Fordham is the lower division school, it's a private institution with a crap ton of smart kids, including the football team. So I'm going to use my brain and say hey, Moorhead has literally been successful EVERY other place he's been and choose not to be a homer and think we are somehow the same.

Go look at the makeup of his previous teams and tell me there isn't a big difference. We have a different type of player and it's going to take time to make it right. What will really tell me what's happening is how our recruiting class finishes. If we finish Top 25 in recruiting this year and go 7-5, that should tell you all you need to know because we will have massively missed expectations and been a major disappointment. But hopefully our fan base realizes that our team makeup is different than the team makeup Moorhead has had before. And yes this offense places a lot on the QB, and our QB doesn't know how to handle that. He ran a triple option one year in high school, and ran a very run heavy, one read offense under Mullen. That's not what we are running and that's not what Moorhead has developed.

Uh...where are you getting we ran a one read passing offense under Mullen? That’s not true.
10-22-2018, 12:17 PM
WinningIsRelentless

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Of course great players make things easier but when WRs are running the wrong routes & it takes the QB a year to go through his reads, there are larger issues.

How do you know they are running the wrong route? I mean JoMo has said that the WR have option routes to run based on the coverage the d is in. What if d-cord have figured out the route tree (since we are in the sec and every team has at least two analyst on each side of the ball now) and developed coverage packages to force the routes?

It is JoMo 3rd season is major college football and enough film now to do all of this.
10-22-2018, 12:25 PM
Cooterpoot

I just have to laugh at the people thinking Dan Mullen ran some kind of illiterate level offense. The man won a national championship calling offenses. His team that couldn't win shit last year is rolling this year with that dumbass offense and he doesn't have "his QB". He certainly coached circles around our OC.
Dan Mullen ran some of the best practices I've ever seen. Yeah, they'd cuss you like a dog, but he expected perfection. He ripped coaches on the staff when shit wasn't handled. We damn sure aren't getting that now.
10-22-2018, 01:32 PM
Dawgfan77

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

This. People are like Moorhead sucks, he's not that smart. Do some of us really think that everything everyone does should instantly work for us? His background is UCONN, Fordham, and Penn State. If you put UCONN, Fordham, Penn State, and MSU in the same sentence, we are most assuredly the outlier. Even though Fordham is the lower division school, it's a private institution with a crap ton of smart kids, including the football team. So I'm going to use my brain and say hey, Moorhead has literally been successful EVERY other place he's been and choose not to be a homer and think we are somehow the same.

Go look at the makeup of his previous teams and tell me there isn't a big difference. We have a different type of player and it's going to take time to make it right. What will really tell me what's happening is how our recruiting class finishes. If we finish Top 25 in recruiting this year and go 7-5, that should tell you all you need to know because we will have massively missed expectations and been a major disappointment. But hopefully our fan base realizes that our team makeup is different than the team makeup Moorhead has had before. And yes this offense places a lot on the QB, and our QB doesn't know how to handle that. He ran a triple option one year in high school, and ran a very run heavy, one read offense under Mullen. That's not what we are running and that's not what Moorhead has developed.

Look I know your a joe defender but technically speaking he is worse than croom with more talent. Think about that. Also that vaulted offense averaged 280 yds against OSU in two years. And while you bring up UCONN, well that vaulted offense has 335 yds in the 11 fiesta bowl agianst Oklahoma. Let?s face it we made a bad hire and you can say all you want about time to get his players but it won?t matter he is a below average coach
10-22-2018, 01:45 PM
DCdawg

I'm no football savant, but Fitz running this offense looks like someone trying to drink from a fire hydrant. If he isn't able to learn the playbook, then you either move to another option at QB or you dumb down the offense and remove all freedom from him to change a play. At the end of the day it's on the coaching staff to either make necessary changes to scheme or personnel.

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