Are College Baseball's Best Coaches are Hiding at Small Time Programs?

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Originally Posted by smootness

I would mostly agree with that - maybe not should, but at least that it is understandable.

But the bottom line is this - how does a program ever elevate itself if coaches always leave for the 'better' option when it is available? The loyalty of baseball coaches compared to their peers in football in basketball is good for the sport, not bad for it.

We are at an advantage in that we don't have to get as good a coach as some other programs do, and our success is more sustainable from coach to coach. But any program with a truly elite coach will outperform a program with a middling or even just good coach, no matter the other advantages. And that's ok. Because the longer Schlossnagle stays at TCU and McDonnell stays at Louisville, the more those programs become 'blue-bloods'. The more good programs, the better.

It's not fun or interesting if you just get all the best things and have the best success just because of your resources/support. It is fun and interesting to have to fight for what you get. Despite our resources and support, we have to fight for what we get. And that makes it all the sweeter when we get it.

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Outstanding post and I think you may be correct.

As to your point of asking how a program can elevate itself if their coach is always moving on, here is something that scares the jabeezus out of me.

What if Orgeron goes 6-6, Moorhead destroys him in Baton Rouge, and LSU comes after Moorhead?

I realize that entire scenario is unlikely, but I'm curious how Commisioner Sankey would handle that? I get letting Mullen go to Florida after being at MSU for 9 years, but a school losing a coach to an inter- conference school two years in a row just wouldn't be right. It's something to contemplate and feeds right into the original question you posed.

Sorry Gun, but I don't consider anybody that you mentioned being "small time". Small time is Tenn Tech or some other back-water. If said back-water school has suddenly started winning and that winning coincides with a coaching change, then said coach may be the next great coach in waiting. that would only apply if winning was over two or three years.

Back-water is defined as mid-major or lower.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Actually most of those places you say could care less have above average attendance for college baseball. Not caring about college baseball is the norm. Outside of 8 or so SEC schools and maybe 3-4 others nobody cares. It's just another non-revenue sport that football has to pay for. Heck, I don't think ours breaks even most years.

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It's not going to either after the stadium rehab. $55M is a lot of money to make up. Not complaining, that's just the way it is.

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Originally Posted by DawgPoundtheRock

Sorry Gun, but I don't consider anybody that you mentioned being "small time". Small time is Tenn Tech or some other back-water. If said back-water school has suddenly started winning and that winning coincides with a coaching change, then said coach may be the next great coach in waiting. that would only apply if winning was over two or three years.

Back-water is defined as mid-major or lower.

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e.g., Ole Miss?

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Originally Posted by dawgs

I still fail to see how we can't leverage our far superior fan support into a significantly larger contract for some of those guys. I mean, I get staying put if it's only a $100-200K raise or something, but no reason we shouldn't be able to fund an extra $500K or more over what those program can offer funded entirely from our ticket sales dwarfing their's. Loyalty matters only up until a certain dollar point.

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Especially because it's Starkville. Some of those places would actually be a small, but not insignificant, raise in purchasing power just because if the difference in cost if living. Moving from some places to Starkville for an extra $500K is really like getting an extra million.

One million a year with no pressure is better then 1.5 million a year with pressure.

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Originally Posted by dawgs

We can fight for rings after we finally win one. Until then, make it as easy as possible. We've been fighting longer than I've been alive and it's ultimately only resulted in heartbreak in all the major sports (or when it gets real bad straight up apathy).

As for how do programs built if guys keep leaving, usually you need several coaches in a row to achieve gradually better success to really set the program up in great shape. Or you need a coach that's an alum or lifelong fan of the university who will turn down better situations and more lucrative offers. Our program has achieved everything except win natties and we've done it over the course of 40 years now across multiple coaches. We have the best facilities and the best fan support, there is nothing left to build except a trophy case, and whichever coach starts winning us natties is going to be lionized by our fan base like he's coach k or Nick Saban. No other baseball program will treat their HC the way we will treat the guy that gets us over the hump.

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I don't disagree with any of that. But I'm telling you, the heartbreak is going to make the victory that much sweeter. It's the exact reason the coach that finally wins one will be so lionized.

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Originally Posted by smootness

I don't disagree with any of that. But I'm telling you, the heartbreak is going to make the victory that much sweeter. It's the exact reason the coach that finally wins one will be so lionized.

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We've been through enough heartbreak. A lifetime worth it for literally every fan of MSU.

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

One million a year with no pressure is better then 1.5 million a year with pressure.

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$1M with no fan support is worse than $1.5M with fan support. Also, much more room for sustained success and income growth at a university committed to baseball.

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Originally Posted by dawgs

$1M with no fan support is worse than $1.5M with fan support. Also, much more room for sustained success and income growth at a university committed to baseball.

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I think like you but there are some people happy taking less.

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

I think like you but there are some people happy taking less.

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Just have a hard time believing everyone is willing to take less and have less resources to achieve sustained success and win trophies. At Louisville or Texas tech or tcu, they may have a good run, but the program ain't selling itself, 1 or 2 bad classes leading to a couple bad seasons and everything falls apart quickly without an easy path back to relevancy.

For us, you will always have the fanbase, support, and the facilities to raise the floor. It takes some serious polk PT. 2 mailing it in to sink below our expected floor. Tbh I think the floor of our program should be about what we've been the last 3 seasons. Even in our "down" years, we should be a 2 seed in a regional (LSU and vandy were similarly "down" and basically had the same type season we did). Some of those years you are hot at the right time and some years you are 2 and out, but that should be our floor all things considered. Our ceiling is obvsiouly a National seed, 40+ Ws, and realistic natty contender regularly.

watching-the Barners play the Gators--the talking heads said the place is packed--must be 6000 fans here. Really?

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Originally Posted by dawgs

We've been through enough heartbreak. A lifetime worth it for literally every fan of MSU.

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I'm not saying we haven't. But I'd rather be a fan of State baseball than Bama football, I'll just put it that way.

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Originally Posted by smootness

I'm not saying we haven't. But I'd rather be a fan of State baseball than Bama football, I'll just put it that way.

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I mean, bammers are a jaded bunch at this point, but if you would prefer to win 1 natty after years of failure instead of winning multiple natties and consistently being in the CWS even when you don't win (playoffs for bama football), then you are lying to yourself, ha. The first one is always gonna be the sweetest, but act like you would prefer repeated failure and continual chasing a ring to being the dominant program over a long period of time with a handful of natties is ludicrous.

Edit: because of bama's ridiculous recruiting, their fanbase does have more of a sense of relief when they win instead of a feeling of unbridled joy. But I feel like when Saban retires, if they spend a decade or more wandering thru the wilderness (like between stallings and Saban), they'll quickly recapture that level of joy they next time they are contenders.

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Originally Posted by dawgs

I mean, bammers are a jaded bunch at this point, but if you would prefer to win 1 natty after years of failure instead of winning multiple natties and consistently being in the CWS even when you don't win (playoffs for bama football), then you are lying to yourself, ha. The first one is always gonna be the sweetest, but act like you would prefer repeated failure and continual chasing a ring to being the dominant program over a long period of time with a handful of natties is ludicrous.

Edit: because of bama's ridiculous recruiting, their fanbase does have more of a sense of relief when they win instead of a feeling of unbridled joy. But I feel like when Saban retires, if they spend a decade or more wandering thru the wilderness (like between stallings and Saban), they'll quickly recapture that level of joy they next time they are contenders.

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But there's a still a sense there that joy comes after pain. I'm just glad I'm a State fan, that's all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Actually most of those places you say could care less have above average attendance for college baseball. Not caring about college baseball is the norm. Outside of 8 or so SEC schools and maybe 3-4 others nobody cares. It's just another non-revenue sport that football has to pay for. Heck, I don't think ours breaks even most years.

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In your next life you're going to be a Duke fan and post how much you hate basketball all the time.