How close is the game from being sold out?

By the same token, where is the advantage that we have gained by playing cupcakes in the past? We have been playing for 100 years and we have not alwyas played tough teams OOC, so we should have been building and building and getting better and better. There is no evidence of that either. I think you can jsut as easily argue that has not made us better.

You can say we have gone to bowls...but what has that led to? Recruiting victories? No, we get smashed in recruiting every year. Are we upper tier SEC? Nope. I'm not sure what going to all those Liberty bowls has helped us either, unless you are saying the Liberty bowl is it's own reward.

Basically beating those crappy teams hides weakness. It makes teams that suck win 7 games, thus keeping their coach. So, for the coaches sake, we need more Alcorns and less Ok States. For the betterment of our program , playing cupcakes is not slowly building our program. It's giving us fake 7 wins, and crappy bowls that do nothign to make us any better in the future. How do I know this? Because here we are in the future.. We are there.

Also, if all of you who make this argument are right, then college football is the only endevor in the history of life that you made yourself better by challenging yourself less.

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Originally Posted by engie

This doesn't make sense.

We've been "scheduling cupcakes" for 3 years...and we sold out every single one of them...

Where did all our cred/improvement from playing Georgia Tech, West Virginia, Oregon, Ok State, Baylor, etc under the last regime go? Did they "make us a better team"?

So, you argue your point based on history -- when history actually tells the opposite...

Go find me an OM fan that will complain about the cupcake schedule they faced in 2003 -- when they went 10-3(and only saw ONE highly ranked team in 13 games) -- if you can? Simple fact is that HISTORY only remembers the record. It doesn't remember who it came against -- and it doesn't reward 5-7 against the #1 SOS as much as it rewards 8-5 against the #40 SOS...

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I see part of your point Dano- but we get challenged enough in the SEC. I agreed that we needed to play Ok State- but we don't need that every season just yet. We need to keep bowling- that builds your program as much or more than anything if you have the right people in place

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Originally Posted by cheewgumm

By the same token, where is the advantage that we have gained by playing cupcakes in the past?

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Sellouts still(no disadvantage). More money kept home(it's WAY more expensive to lock up a home game from a good opponent -- unless you do a home and home and essentially give up a home game the second year). Nevermind that "scheduling cupcakes" arguably kept us bowling the past two years. Definitely in 2011.

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We have been playing for 100 years and we have not alwyas played tough teams OOC, so we should have been building and building and getting better and better.

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Actually, if you look at our HISTORY on the level which I have, you'll see that we've played a hellacious SOS in comparison with our brothers to the north. You know, the ones with the "vastly superior" historical football program that is actually BASICALLY IDENTICAL to us on the field against the Big 6 in the SEC? Oh yeah -- MSU played those teams about 150 more times -- in which we went about 40-110 -- while OM was playing directional schools and calling them "SEC" games exploiting the old rulebooks. We've even played their "rival" LSU more times than they have.

Why is their record -- and thus perception -- better? Because Vaught scheduled the hell out of cupcakes and avoided Bear at all costs -- while we played Ole Miss last for FIFTY YEARS directly after playing Auburn, Alabama, and LSU back to back. Yeah, I love our cupcake scheduling model in the past**

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There is no evidence of that either. I think you can jsut as easily argue that has not made us better.

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The only thing you can actually argue, statistically, is that scheduling difficulty in the past has made our program look WORSE than it has been in reality over the years. Again, I've been through these numbers on a deeper level than anyone I know. Several here can confirm the research I've done on it.

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You can say we have gone to bowls...but what has that led to?

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What did NOT going to bowls against tough schedules lead to? Going to bowls has put $100million in our pockets in the form of expansions that NEVER happened under the previous regime despite being badly needed.

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Recruiting victories? No, we get smashed in recruiting every year.

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Uhh -- our last 2 classes have been 2 of our 3 best in the history of recruiting rankings -- especially since they gained any semblance of accuracy...

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Are we upper tier SEC? Nope.

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Have we ever been? NOPE. But we're a hell of a lot closer to the top of college football today than we were 5 years ago -- and consistent winning has done that for us.

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I'm not sure what going to all those Liberty bowls has helped us either, unless you are saying the Liberty bowl is it's own reward.

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I enjoyed the hell out of the Liberty Bowl -- especially after the previous 6 seasons. And good luck trying to convince me that the Liberty Bowl appearance didn't help with the early part of the 09 recruiting class -- which was suddenly way the hell better than it had been in the past(our recruiting always gets a bump 2 classes after a "successful year".

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Basically beating those crappy teams hides weakness. It makes teams that suck win 7 games, thus keeping their coach.

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Yet these "sucky" teams are on the second-best run in anyone here's lifetimes at MSU -- and the second best that this state has seen in 40 years(to ourselves). Let it sink it that THIS is what you are actually bitching about right now.

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So, for the coaches sake, we need more Alcorns and less Ok States. For the betterment of our program , playing cupcakes is not slowly building our program. It's giving us fake 7 wins, and crappy bowls that do nothign to make us any better in the future. How do I know this? Because here we are in the future.. We are there.

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You are so far out in left field with how you are looking at this, it's ridiculous. So, 5-7 is better for MSU than 8-5? Learn something new here every day** The $100 mil we've invested says that the current formula is WORKING.

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Also, if all of you who make this argument are right, then college football is the only endevor in the history of life that you made yourself better by challenging yourself less.

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It's about PERCEPTION. Not reality. The REALITY is that 2009 could easily have been the 2nd best team that Mullen has had here. Is it perceived that way in the future? HELLLL no. The record will tell the story for EVERYONE other than the most hardcore MSU fans. And PERCEPTION is a huge deal. You think Hugh Freeze is selling those kids reality at Ole Miss?

Could not agree more Engie

After all is said and done, we beat ourselves vs OSU. We should have beat them. We didn't lose to OSU because we scheduled a team that was too tough. We just played like shit.

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Originally Posted by FlabLoser

After all is said and done, we beat ourselves vs OSU. We should have beat them. We didn't lose to OSU because we scheduled a team that was too tough. We just played like shit.

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I tend to agree with you, but I still didn't like the scheduling move. Everybody acting like the loss Saturday means we won't win 3 games, are morons. There was a lot of good in that loss. The defense, our special teams outside of Bell, and I thought it was good for Dak to get a quarter+ in before having to start a game. Yes, the offense sucked, but we don't know if Tyler was concussed early on, and we looked good on the first few drives. Also, blew a great opportunity after a block field goal and after a long kickoff return.

All this doom and gloom shit over the ENTIRE team is getting old quick. Just because the O stunk it up against OSU, doesn't mean our team sucks ass and has zero shot to beat a SEC team.

It's not a good team unless you beat other good teams.

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Originally Posted by cheewgumm

It's not a good team unless you beat other good teams.

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Actually, scheduling cupcakes gives us a better chance at doing that because we can rest certain guys- such as we are doing with Perkins and it helps us to build depth because we can play our reserves and get them playing time.

Which would be better as far as perception- beating Oklahoma State or beating Alabama or LSU?