What we can learn from LSU

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09-25-2016, 06:42 PM
Thick

Quote:

Originally Posted by HereComesTheSpiral

Dans seat just went from luke warm to Satans testicles.

Satan's testicles.....that's as hot as it gets. Bravo ole boy!
09-25-2016, 06:43 PM
Thick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

LSU was having success with Les Miles including 10 win seasons but I think most would agree that they were underachieving for the talent that they have.

So, LSU gives Les the benefit of the doubt and they let him come back and see if he can turn it around. He doesn?t and it also appears as if they were going to go on even more of a decline.

Now because they didn?t make the appropriate move in the offseason like they should have they have wasted Fournette?s last year (likely) not to mention the rest of the season. Now they have Ed Orgeron as their head coach.

For all the Frank Beamer?s, THIS is why you don?t give coaches multiple opportunities to turn it around only to fail over and over again.

See the warning signs, be proactive, and make the change.

If we allow Dan to come back there is a good chance we are going to be in the same spot as LSU except worse since we don?t have their talent.

Really good post for a baseball guy....hahaha!
09-25-2016, 06:58 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

So many wrongs in this.... LMAO!

1- LSU underachieving VS MSU.

LSU has an AVERAGE recruiting class of about #7 in the country.

2016 3
2015 6
2014 2
2013 6
2012 14
2011 7
2010(*) 10
2009 2
2008 11
2007 4
2006 7
2005 22
2004 2
2003 1
2002 15

MSU:

2016 27
2015 18
2014 35
2013 25
2012 22
2011 34
2010(*) 34
2009 25
2008 44
2007 39
2006 46
2005 33
2004 63
2003 9
2002 17

To even COMPARE the 2 in this way is totally nuts! 100% certifiable! Nuts! We have Overachieved. There is no comparison!

LSU has every right to demand more based on talent of a recruiting class.

I?m only comparing the timing of replacing the coaches. Not the ceilings.

A little bit out of both sides of your mouth considering your proclamation that we will compete for the SEC next year. But we can?t do any better than what we are doing now. Which is it?
09-25-2016, 07:00 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

It's not a similar situation yet. Les the last two years has flatlined to their historic avg in wins. Around 8 per year with terrible offenses. Mullen would have to go 5 wins back to back years for it to be similar. It was time for them to change last year after 2 years of that. We haven't had even one yet. And Mullen would have to turn in a 4 win or less season for it to be considered. 2 wins or less it's automatic. 5 wins or more without any scandals and he will probably survive to see if he turns it around. Where LSU screwed up was they decided to make a change and let a win and Jimbo backing out change their minds. You never let one win or one loss determine those descisions.

Question- what range of years are you using to define your numbers?
09-25-2016, 07:01 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thick

Really good post for a baseball guy....hahaha!

Thanks Dwight Clark!
09-25-2016, 07:28 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Question- what range of years are you using to define your numbers?

Using the winning percentage since joining the SEC as that is also close to what's considered the modern age of football.
09-25-2016, 07:55 PM
Maroonthirteen

We haven't learned anything yet. Nobody...including the President and AD at LSU knows if this was a good move.

They may hire the next Nick Saban but they did have Nick Saban. Saban didn't win more than Miles.

Miles winning percentage exceeded the historical percentage of the university. Remove Saban's years....Miles far exceeded their historical average.

What we do know.....

Bama ran off Stallings. Tennessee ran off Fulmer. OM ran off Cutcliff. All three went through bad years following those firings. Florida followed up Spurrier with Zook.

We shall see if this works out for LSU.
09-25-2016, 08:02 PM
Taog Redloh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

We haven't learned anything yet. Nobody...and I mean nobody, including the President and AD at LSU know if this was a good move.

They may hire the next Nick Saban but they did have Nick Saban. Saban didn't win more than Miles.

Miles winning percentage exceeded the history percentage of the university. Remove Saban's years....Miles far exceeded their historical average.

What we do know.....

Bama ran off Stallings. Tennessee ran off Fulmer. OM ran off Cutcliff. All three went through bad years following those firings. Florida followed up Spurrier with Zook.

We shall see if this works out for LSU.

Don't forget Georgia and Mark Richt (this is no way is an indictment of Smart, he may end up fine, but Richt didn't suffer a 31 point beatdown until his 8th year).
09-25-2016, 08:05 PM
Maroonthirteen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Don't forget Georgia and Mark Richt.

Boy, UGA looked much improved Saturday. ****
09-25-2016, 08:07 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by PassInterference

I agree with Todd.

Dan totally mails in the offseason. Hevesy is a bad liability. He runs off his defensive staff almost every year. His recruiting is not sustainable. You can't make a living on turning 2 stars into All Americans.

Props that he turned some 2 stars into great players. But a roster full of 2-3 star depth that really is 2-3 star depth doesn't make a good program.

And I'll say this - I don't want to see a single person talk about Mullen compared any program history from the Larry Trmpleton era. ESPN has tilted the playing field. Its not even. But its even enough for us to compete.

Money wise in the SEC, relatively speaking which is what actually matters, we are in about the same spot we were under Templeton.
09-25-2016, 08:08 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

We haven't learned anything yet. Nobody...including the President and AD at LSU knows if this was a good move.

They may hire the next Nick Saban but they did have Nick Saban. Saban didn't win more than Miles.

Miles winning percentage exceeded the historical percentage of the university. Remove Saban's years....Miles far exceeded their historical average.

What we do know.....

Bama ran off Stallings. Tennessee ran off Fulmer. OM ran off Cutcliff. All three went through bad years following those firings. Florida followed up Spurrier with Zook.

We shall see if this works out for LSU.

They may do well, but the odds do not favor it. Time will tell.
09-25-2016, 08:10 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

Boy, UGA looked much improved Saturday. ****

They haven't looked good so far but first years don't always tell the whole story.
09-25-2016, 08:17 PM
BrunswickDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Don't forget Georgia and Mark Richt (this is no way is an indictment of Smart, he may end up fine, but Richt didn't suffer a 31 point beatdown until his 8th year).

I already asked my UGA friends if Smart was Ray Goff 2.0. They weren't too happy with me. But, when you fire/push out a legend (Dooley/Richt), and hire a former player who was a longtime #2 (Goff/Smart), and your team goes in the tank 3-4 games in (1989/2016) then the comparison looks pretty dead on.
09-25-2016, 08:19 PM
Maroonthirteen

Ha! I forgot about Goff. What was the saying... "if you can't beat the poultry go back to Moultrie."
09-25-2016, 08:24 PM
Coach007

Quote:

Originally Posted by PassInterference

I agree with Todd.

Dan totally mails in the offseason. Hevesy is a bad liability. He runs off his defensive staff almost every year. His recruiting is not sustainable. You can't make a living on turning 2 stars into All Americans.

Props that he turned some 2 stars into great players. But a roster full of 2-3 star depth that really is 2-3 star depth doesn't make a good program.

And I'll say this - I don't want to see a single person talk about Mullen compared any program history from the Larry Trmpleton era. ESPN has tilted the playing field. Its not even. But its even enough for us to compete.

LMAO! Every teenager that is a QB is watching the HOTTEST QB in the USA.... Dak! You have lost your mind if you think we should even consider getting rid of Mullen. No team but Bama has been able to compete without a QB. Again, see LSU with those top classes.

Dan doesn't "Mail it in" during the off season. We have gone through a probation period. It cost a great recruit over a year because of a booster. We have put people in the NFL early. Bottom line is recruiting has picked up under Mullen. an average of about 10 spots higher.
09-25-2016, 08:26 PM
Coach007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

I?m only comparing the timing of replacing the coaches. Not the ceilings.

A little bit out of both sides of your mouth considering your proclamation that we will compete for the SEC next year. But we can?t do any better than what we are doing now. Which is it?

no no. You used the term underachieving to make a point with Mullen.
09-25-2016, 10:09 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Using the winning percentage since joining the SEC as that is also close to what's considered the modern age of football.

So, 1932 on? To me that's an awfully wide range. I would go with 1980 at the earliest and for us I think 1991 would be a more accurate representation of our average.
09-25-2016, 10:14 PM
lamont

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

So, 1932 on? To me that's an awfully wide range. I would go with 1980 at the earliest and for us I think 1991 would be a more accurate representation of our average.

modern football started in about 1972. Southern teams really started signing Blacks at that point
09-25-2016, 10:24 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

We haven't learned anything yet. Nobody...including the President and AD at LSU knows if this was a good move.

They may hire the next Nick Saban but they did have Nick Saban. Saban didn't win more than Miles.

Miles winning percentage exceeded the historical percentage of the university. Remove Saban's years....Miles far exceeded their historical average.

What we do know.....

Bama ran off Stallings. Tennessee ran off Fulmer. OM ran off Cutcliff. All three went through bad years following those firings. Florida followed up Spurrier with Zook.

We shall see if this works out for LSU.

Here's what makes us different:

1. We haven't really had a Bear Bryant/Vince Dooley/Legendary type coach. One of our best coaches of all time has a .500 record. One of the others no one remembers except for Liverpool. It is easier to exceed what Dan has done here vs. say what Fulmer/Spurrier did at their schools. That's attractive to a lot of coaches because even though we don't have the history, we have the money and facilities and a lot of coaches want to be "the guy" for a program. We're probably the easiest place to do that currently.

2. Those schools often times held on to their coaches for too long because that coach had won a NC and it got their program in a hole and coaches knew that they had to wait a few years for a "bridge" coach to come in and restore the foundation. After Zook Florida hired Meyer. After Meyer Florida had Muschamp but then replaced him with McIlwain. Tennessee had Kiffen for a year and then Dooley but now they have Butch Jones and appear to be in good shape. People keep brining up Cutcliffe- but after Orgeron Nutt had a couple of good years and Freeze has had some good years. I'm not sold on Smart as a coach- but I think that if he fails that job will be pretty attractive in a few years.

3. I'm pretty sure if Saban had not gone to the NFL he would have won at pretty much the same rate at LSU and might have/probably would have elevated LSU past Alabama.

4. With LSU's talent, the fact that they are in a state with a ton of talent with no competition for the best of the players and are a stone's throw away from Houston they should be able to get someone good. I'm dumbfounded as to how they ended up with Mike Archer, Curly Hallman, and Gerry DiNardo to be honest. They were pretty much a 10 win team with a coach that couldn't manage the clock and could never really develop a QB. Imagine what they will be with someone that knows what the hell they are doing.

5. Our fans keep bringing up Cutcliffe but Cut never lost to South Alabama and he didn't mess up Eli's senior year. We also have allowed Dan to keep the assistants that he wanted but I imagine that time is going to be up on that ultimatum come December but we'll see.
09-25-2016, 10:24 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

We haven't learned anything yet. Nobody...including the President and AD at LSU knows if this was a good move.

They may hire the next Nick Saban but they did have Nick Saban. Saban didn't win more than Miles.

Miles winning percentage exceeded the historical percentage of the university. Remove Saban's years....Miles far exceeded their historical average.

What we do know.....

Bama ran off Stallings. Tennessee ran off Fulmer. OM ran off Cutcliff. All three went through bad years following those firings. Florida followed up Spurrier with Zook.

We shall see if this works out for LSU.

Here's what makes us different:

1. We haven't really had a Bear Bryant/Vince Dooley/Legendary type coach. One of our best coaches of all time has a .500 record. One of the others no one remembers except for Liverpool. It is easier to exceed what Dan has done here vs. say what Fulmer/Spurrier did at their schools. That's attractive to a lot of coaches because even though we don't have the history, we have the money and facilities and a lot of coaches want to be "the guy" for a program. We're probably the easiest place to do that currently.

2. Those schools often times held on to their coaches for too long because that coach had won a NC and it got their program in a hole and coaches knew that they had to wait a few years for a "bridge" coach to come in and restore the foundation. After Zook Florida hired Meyer. After Meyer Florida had Muschamp but then replaced him with McIlwain. Tennessee had Kiffen for a year and then Dooley but now they have Butch Jones and appear to be in good shape. People keep brining up Cutcliffe- but after Orgeron Nutt had a couple of good years and Freeze has had some good years. I'm not sold on Smart as a coach- but I think that if he fails that job will be pretty attractive in a few years.

3. I'm pretty sure if Saban had not gone to the NFL he would have won at pretty much the same rate at LSU and might have/probably would have elevated LSU past Alabama.

4. With LSU's talent, the fact that they are in a state with a ton of talent with no competition for the best of the players and are a stone's throw away from Houston they should be able to get someone good. I'm dumbfounded as to how they ended up with Mike Archer, Curly Hallman, and Gerry DiNardo to be honest. They were pretty much a 10 win team with a coach that couldn't manage the clock and could never really develop a QB. Imagine what they will be with someone that knows what the hell they are doing.

5. Our fans keep bringing up Cutcliffe but Cut never lost to South Alabama and he didn't mess up Eli's senior year. We also have allowed Dan to keep the assistants that he wanted but I imagine that time is going to be up on that ultimatum come December but we'll see.

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