Good grief...Ethan Small needs Tommy John

Some pitchers have gotten Tommy Johns and not need it.

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Originally Posted by DeviousDawg

The solution starts and finishes with parents and coaches becoming better educated on the risks of over pitching and throwing junk at a young age.

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Good luck with that. The issue isn't ignorance anymore, it's parents trying to live their life and assert social status through their kids.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Good luck with that. The issue isn't ignorance anymore, it's parents trying to live their life and assert social status through their kids.

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Sadly, you are spot on. So many parents use their kids for their own good, trying to live vicariously through them in the hopes of some how achieving a goal that they couldn't do for themselves in the past. It's just sick hearing of grown men fighting over a 10 year old baseball game and using their kids as some sort of time machine to correct their own past.

This is horrible news if true. I was already thinking next year was going to be a bad year because we lost all of our end of the year weekend starting pitching couple that with we lost ALL of our power hitting to the draft and now we just lost the one kid I thought might be our Friday starter next year! brace yourselves bulldog faithful next season is going to be a long one. but I hope like hell I'm wrong! HAIL STATE!

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Originally Posted by MafiaDawg

Probably not a popular stance but with 3 current tommy John injuries do we need to cut bait with 1 or 2 of them? We can't afford to carry 3 pitchers on scholarship when none of them will pitch an inning in 2017.

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Medically redshirted players do not count against 35 man roster. Also, not sure you can cut an injured player and if you could, it definitely would not go over real well in the select group of athletes that we are trying to recruit.

It's not our coaches it's the stupid coaches of youth baseball who wear their kids out. Find one kid and ride him. I just coached my travel team in a World Series. There was a team that threw their ace 16 innings over 4 days and that was after he pitched 5 in a league game 2 days before! That's 20 innings in 6 days and it ain't the first time. Kid has potential but his arms gonna fall off. My ace threw 6 innings 2 opening day and 4 in championship game(we run ruled that very team and that kid). I have 9 of my 11 players that pitch and none threw more than 6 innings or 85 pitches total! What I see on the travel circuit week in and week out disgusts me. These kids are ruined before they ever get to college.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Kids play way too much baseball at too young an age these days.

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That's why you make your kid play 2nd base and OF instead of pitching in 7-8 year old baseball.

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Originally Posted by DeviousDawg

I'm talking about a set in stone nation wide, regardless of league, legal pitch count. Is that a thing now? Make the umpires responsible for keeping pitch counts, fine the parents if the kid goes over. This isn't a "pussification of America" issue, it's a real issue that is affecting the futures of some of our kids.

My dad always told me that I would never break my wrist with a pitch until he could pluck a whisker off my chin. Taught me how to throw a curveball with your wrist broken before going to the plate, which was still very affective at the age. Circle change and knuckle curve among other pitches can be taught to kids without breaking their wrists on delivery.

There is a right way to teach kids how to throw junk without tearing up their arms at a young age. So sad going to the local ball park and seeing a 10 year old breaking his wrist to throw a curveball. It's just too much stress on their young underdeveloped arms. The solution starts and finishes with parents and coaches becoming better educated on the risks of over pitching and throwing junk at a young age.

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I've been talking to Brian Bridges, who is the scouting director for the Braves, about this. He's convinced that young pitchers throwing cutters puts a lot of strain on the elbow.

Wow. People believe anything they hear. Who is your credible source?

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Originally Posted by Msubaseball62

Wow. People believe anything they hear. Who is your credible source?

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Small is on the shelf for 2 months- Tommy John is 50/50 at this point they say.
Padgett is assuredly headed for Tommy John.

And yes- young kids playing 50 freaking games a year is ridiculous. There is no doubt the amount of strain being put on young elbows these days is causing the arm problems. Thats obvious.

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Originally Posted by Random Poster

Small is on the shelf for 2 months- Tommy John is 50/50 at this point they say.
Padgett is assuredly headed for Tommy John.

And yes- young kids playing 50 freaking games a year is ridiculous. There is no doubt the amount of strain being put on young elbows these days is causing the arm problems. Thats obvious.

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That's good news at this point however it also sounds like Tommy John is inevitable. We'll just hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by KB21

I've been talking to Brian Bridges, who is the scouting director for the Braves, about this. He's convinced that young pitchers throwing cutters puts a lot of strain on the elbow.

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I wonder why he thinks that because a cutter is basically the same as a fastball with a slightly different finger places and or pressure on the ball? It just seems odd to me now that studies have shown that curveballs and split finger fastballs aren't the culprits we once thought they were.

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Originally Posted by Random Poster

Small is on the shelf for 2 months- Tommy John is 50/50 at this point they say.
Padgett is assuredly headed for Tommy John.

And yes- young kids playing 50 freaking games a year is ridiculous. There is no doubt the amount of strain being put on young elbows these days is causing the arm problems. That's obvious.

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50 games is on the lower end of the spectrum now. When the USSSA started to form and overtake Dizzy Dean and other post rec-league all star leagues, I knew this problem was inevitable. USSSA became a separate entity, and the more talented kids stopped playing rec ball, and only played travel ball. This switch over happened about 10-15 years ago, which is why we are now just starting to see the TJ outbreak, because the first travel ball kids are now in 18-25. Rec ball + dizzy dean all star would be about 30 games a year for these kids, tops. The USSSA is a different monster, tournaments every weekend from March to August, where a kid could play up to 7 or 8 games a weekend through the losers bracket. Throw in the increase in fall ball tournaments, and these kids are playing ball 9-10 months out of the year. I'd say the average USSSA team plays close to 100 games a year. Someone needs to regulate this stuff before it ruins the game.

It isn't any type of pitch or age or anything it is simply overuse. Too many games, too many innings. Couple that with bigger, stronger players and the ligament can't take it.

Seems if the vast majority of good young baseball players are playing pretty much year round it would be hard to not let your kid play too. While letting them rest would be great for their bodies, it could cause then to fall behind the others that aren't resting.

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Originally Posted by DeviousDawg

Surprisingly, Jake Mangum is a pretty good pitcher. Fastball in the low 90s. Wouldn't be surprised if he got some work in the pen over the fall.

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Surprisingly? Nothing about Jake surprises me

Why isn't this being reported on any other site? Not that I don't believe you guys but by now the chicken littles on all the other sites would be screaming this from the roof tops and saying we would be screwed next year.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

Why isn't this being reported on any other site? Not that I don't believe you guys but by now the chicken littles on all the other sites would be screaming this from the roof tops and saying we would be screwed next year.

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Because we have the best baseball board among MSU web sites?

Plus the rumor has been put to rest- no Tommy John but rest for the next two months. Worst case scenario we're rolling Pilkington, Breaux, Keegan, and maybe Cyr out there. I can live with that if that's what it comes down to- which I hope it doesn't because I want a healthy Small out there.

Is it year around baseball or too much pitching?

The Dominicans play baseball year around from the time they can walk, dontheybhave this problem?

Maybe the Dominicans aren't irresponsible with the pitching.

I dorm believe for one minute that just playing baseball, as in everyday practice, pickup games, etc. is the problem. The game of baseball just isn't that hard on the body compard to other sports. Outside of pitching, the rest of the game is relatively easy on the body.

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Originally Posted by SPMT

Is it year around baseball or too much pitching?

The Dominicans play baseball year around from the time they can walk, dontheybhave this problem?

Maybe the Dominicans aren't irresponsible with the pitching.

I dorm believe for one minute that just playing baseball, as in everyday practice, pickup games, etc. is the problem. The game of baseball just isn't that hard on the body compard to other sports. Outside of pitching, the rest of the game is relatively easy on the body.

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Pitching off a mound with max effort too much is what you have to limit. Throwing year round should be fine.