Proposal for Paying Players

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

I wasn't arguing that. I agree.

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I know. Just pointing out for others that may not know that in no way whatsoever was there a quid pro quo.

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

What amazes me is how people who are free market capitalist in every other arena of life suddenly see the value in communism when it comes to what high school football players can do with their talent.

Brian Bosworth agreed with me. "On more than one occasion Bosworth referred to the NCAA as the "National Communists Against Athletes." He wore a T-shirt bearing that slogan during the 1987 Orange Bowl game following the 1986 season."-wiki

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In communist anywhere you are forced to do this or that (and for whatever fee, including nothing, they decide). In this situation here in college football you can choose of your own free will to participate or not.

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Originally Posted by Schultzy

In communist anywhere you are forced to do this or that (and for whatever fee, including nothing, they decide). In this situation here in college football you can choose of your own free will to participate or not.

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A 17 year old guitarist can start a rock band and make millions.
A 17 year old ice skater can skate for a Disney show and make money.
A 17 year old painter can sale their paintings to the highest bidder.
A 17 year old pitcher can sign a multi-million dollar deal with a MLB club.
But a 17 year RB has to go play for 3 years in college and take no money other than educational expense or else he can be suspended and will lose playing time that cannot be regained.

How is this representative of free market capitalism (fair)?

I agree people should be able to go pro whenever they choose and am a right to work guy but that's not a Constitutional Law that's a rule made by a corporation and they should have the right to make their own rules.

But this reminds me of this similar argument , never gets old. "Go play intramurals brother! "
http://youtu.be/je-gpy6Y_UA

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

A 17 year old guitarist can start a rock band and make millions.
A 17 year old ice skater can skate for a Disney show and make money.
A 17 year old painter can sale their paintings to the highest bidder.
A 17 year old pitcher can sign a multi-million dollar deal with a MLB club.
But a 17 year RB has to go play for 3 years in college and take no money other than educational expense or else he can be suspended and will lose playing time that cannot be regained.

How is this representative of free market capitalism (fair)?

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Because the NFL has developed a set of rules they feel is best for the investment. When they feel they need to, they will change the rules. In the meantime, feel free to organize a competing league to the NFL that will take allow that 17 year old to play. Let the free market take its course. Until then, boo hoo.

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

A 17 year old guitarist can start a rock band and make millions.
A 17 year old ice skater can skate for a Disney show and make money.
A 17 year old painter can sale their paintings to the highest bidder.
A 17 year old pitcher can sign a multi-million dollar deal with a MLB club.
But a 17 year RB has to go play for 3 years in college and take no money other than educational expense or else he can be suspended and will lose playing time that cannot be regained.

How is this representative of free market capitalism (fair)?

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Put down the football and pick up a guitar or put on some ice skates. No one is forcing them to play football, that's what they choose to do, and with that comes the system in which they must participate. I don't think you have any idea what communism means. You start playing college football players you start killing college football, end of story. But these days where taking the easy way out and getting everything handed to you that's likely where it will end up.

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

Oh yeah, and just to rub salt in the wound the NFL is tax exempt and doesn't pay the federal income tax you pay personally. How this makes sense, I don't know.

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That's the NFL's administrative body, not the 32 NFL teams. They are in no way tax-exempt.

Also, the NFL office dropped its tax-exempt status last year voluntarily.

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Originally Posted by dparker

I doubt this proposal is on anyone's actual radar but it's something to discuss during a slow time.

http://rajivsethi.blogspot.com/2016/...ight-loss.html

Since most kids won't play in the NFL I like the idea of linking their pay to graduation and especially like linking it to the school system they come from. I think this correctly lines up everyone incentives. The player benefits by getting a degree and the schools are properly incentivized to prepare them for more than athletics.

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Where is this money coming from? Who is paying schools?

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Originally Posted by dparker

I doubt this proposal is on anyone's actual radar but it's something to discuss during a slow time.

http://rajivsethi.blogspot.com/2016/...ight-loss.html

Since most kids won't play in the NFL I like the idea of linking their pay to graduation and especially like linking it to the school system they come from. I think this correctly lines up everyone incentives. The player benefits by getting a degree and the schools are properly incentivized to prepare them for more than athletics.

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The star on the football team would receive the same as the bench warmer on the volleyball team. That is the law.

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Originally Posted by ckDOG

Because the NFL has developed a set of rules they feel is best for the investment. When they feel they need to, they will change the rules. In the meantime, feel free to organize a competing league to the NFL that will take allow that 17 year old to play. Let the free market take its course. Until then, boo hoo.

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Actually I'm not the one crying about it. There are other people on the board who voiced their displeasure when guys decide to leave college early to try out for the NFL draft. They are mad because a guy gets tired of giving away his talent and would rather go ahead and take his shot at the NFL.

Football in particular has a tremendous amount of risk of injury, pain, and long-term effects. Guys want to get paid while they're in their prime.

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

They are lining up to participate because it is the only way to the NFL. The NCAA's rules and the NFL's rules have created a funnel (which I am appreciative of because I value education) that forces players to go to college.

If there was a minor league system like there is in baseball then NCAA football would be screwed. As many players as the minor league would accept would sign with them out of high school.

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I don't know. Probably a better deal for the elite talent with access to signing bonuses and what not, but you are going to have to get a hefty hefty bump in minor league football salaries vs the baseball equivalent for it to be a good deal for the players. Tuition, room, and board for the college football player vs the crap salary that minor league baseball players get (especially in those early years)? College system is sounding pretty good for the masses.

I can just about guarantee you that Title IX concerns would make paying players more complicated than you could easily imagine.

How much are you going to pay SEC softball players? They work hard, they have skill...it's just that 99.5% of sports fans will never pay a nickel to see them. You think identity politics bean counters won't be hollering for equal pay for them? The whole thing will collapse on itself if Title IX rules the day.

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Originally Posted by dawgoneyall

The star on the football team would receive the same as the bench warmer on the volleyball team. That is the law.

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That is why this is a can of worms we don't want to open

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Originally Posted by AlmostPositive

I can just about guarantee you that Title IX concerns would make paying players more complicated than you could easily imagine.

How much are you going to pay SEC softball players? They work hard, they have skill...it's just that 99.5% of sports fans will never pay a nickel to see them. You think identity politics bean counters won't be hollering for equal pay for them? The whole thing will collapse on itself if Title IX rules the day.

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And again, that is why this is a can of worms we don't want to open

O

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

They are lining up to participate because it is the only way to the NFL. The NCAA's rules and the NFL's rules have created a funnel (which I am appreciative of because I value education) that forces players to go to college.

If there was a minor league system like there is in baseball then NCAA football would be screwed. As many players as the minor league would accept would sign with them out of high school.

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If there was a minor league football system, NCAA football would not be screwed any more than college baseball is. The quality of the game would drop somewhat, yet there would be a return to the "student athlete" that the NCAA pretends is in existence now.

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Originally Posted by smootness

Where is this money coming from? Who is paying schools?

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From the article:

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The amount of money generated by college sports is staggering: broadcast rights alone are worth over a billion dollars annually, and this doesn't include tickets sales for live events, revenue from merchandise, or fees from licensing.

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I hear what you (and others) are saying but I look around at things like the TAMU football facilities (link) , Coaching salaries, and even our own Jumbotron; there is a lot of money floating around that in a different paradigm could go to the players and schools that produce them. Not NFL salaries but certainly something in line with what they earn for the school.

I also understand what NYDawg and RocketDawg are saying about classes. I'm a EE who paid may way through but these fluff classes that have popped up is a product of the students not being prepared enough for college but the schools still really wanting them because of athletics. It's not always this way, remember Westerfield was an engineer.

Again, not saying this proposal is perfect but with things being slow it's something to discuss.

Simple fact - no way you can reward one group of athletes over the other. A metric for labor = to pay will have to be established for ALL schools to follow. It will require Academics be verified in order to make the athlete eligible to receive compensation. Also makes them employees.

Nowhere in this new payment plan will inducements, the primary culprit, be endorsed. Any UNM folks bringing this argument up should be aware paying athletes is agreeable in theory, but schools gaining unfair advantages via fiscal inducement or academic cheating is NOT the same issue.

Nor will providing vehicles, houses for entire families, skilled oral practitioners of head bobbing and suctions, backpacks of monopoly money prior to qualifying for salaried athletic scholarships, illegal contacts, alternative admissions testing - allegedly, be allowed under the new plan. No, pay for play would help some issues but boosters gonna boost beyond the rules and we all know it.

Come up with a pay scheme that works for qualified athletes, tie academic performance to maintaining the pay, and you solve one problem. The need for equity will still have schools cheating to offer more than allowed. We all know it. Recruiting will not change one damn bit.

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Originally Posted by AlmostPositive

I can just about guarantee you that Title IX concerns would make paying players more complicated than you could easily imagine.

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Just asking, but doesn't Title IX only apply to student athlete (meaning still in school)? What jurisdiction would it have after they have graduated if that is how compensation is set up?

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

I don't quite understand why people feel so strongly about bringing incentives out of the underworld to above board.

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Envy. Since nobody was willing to pay them to play sports at all, it's just damn greedy for other people to want to be able to accept the money that people voluntarily want to give them.

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Originally Posted by Dawgowar

Simple fact - no way you can reward one group of athletes over the other. A metric for labor = to pay will have to be established for ALL schools to follow. It will require Academics be verified in order to make the athlete eligible to receive compensation. Also makes them employees.

Nowhere in this new payment plan will inducements, the primary culprit, be endorsed. Any UNM folks bringing this argument up should be aware paying athletes is agreeable in theory, but schools gaining unfair advantages via fiscal inducement or academic cheating is NOT the same issue.

Nor will providing vehicles, houses for entire families, skilled oral practitioners of head bobbing and suctions, backpacks of monopoly money prior to qualifying for salaried athletic scholarships, illegal contacts, alternative admissions testing - allegedly, be allowed under the new plan. No, pay for play would help some issues but boosters gonna boost beyond the rules and we all know it.

Come up with a pay scheme that works for qualified athletes, tie academic performance to maintaining the pay, and you solve one problem. The need for equity will still have schools cheating to offer more than allowed. We all know it. Recruiting will not change one damn bit.

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Agreed. I would add however that the effectiveness of illegal incentives will decrease somewhat. If you're already pulling in a 'living' salary your much less likely to have your hand out for more in fear of losing what you have. But you are right that it would in no way eliminate all illegal inducements but by that standard we wouldn't have a lot of laws since they don't stop people from still breaking them. I know hyperbole much. :)

I think you hit on the bigger issue of equitable pay across school/conference. Probably need something like a salary cap that is tied to a percentage of revenue.