Sick to my stomach with this performance today

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Well you can't go out there and get shelled every outing and then say "I want to start". He hasn't earned a start. That's like me going to my boss and telling him "I know I haven't hit quota in 6 months, but I want to be promoted to Director of Sales."

It makes no sense. Not saying Houston might not be better as a starter...but surely we can all see why Cohen wouldn't have the confidence to trot him out there right now, right?

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Starting and relieving are two totally different animals. Really, to me they're two different positions. Some guys can start and can't pitch in relief. Some guys can relieve and can't start. And some can do both.

Look at Houston's starts this year- he has done well. Including Weds. in Biloxi. His last start before that against Nicholls he goes five and struck out 10 while allowing no runs.

Usually the difference is the guys that can relieve and are good at it can up and loose quickly. I've seen a couple of Houston's bullpen sessions and that's just not him. I've seen some of Daniel Brown's and he gets loose really quickly.

So, just because you don't do well as a relief pitcher it doesn't necessarily mean you won't do well as a starting pitcher. A better analogy would be like saying a RF with a good arm can play third base because that position requires a strong arm. It's possible- but it's not necessarily true for everyone.

Relief pitching is a different mindset and some guys just don't do as well with runners on or late in the game which is when the toughest outs are in play. Other don't do well trying to get through a lineup three times.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I think it's just bad pitching on Sundays. I doubt guys that haven't thrown all weekend are mentally checked out. In fact, my guess is that we press on Sundays, instead of just slowing the game down.

I know we blame coaches for everything, but you know

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I think you are right- at least as far as Sunday's in general. I think today was more about bad defense which caused us to extend innings and force us into the bullpen. I do agree across the board. We're throwing freshmen and asking guys like Rigby to throw 6 IP when he is only capable of 2 max against some of the best hitting teams in the SEC and it's a recipe for disaster.

Bottom line- we need someone that can go 4-5 innings consistently every Sunday to step up.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Starting and relieving are two totally different animals. Really, to me they're two different positions. Some guys can start and can't pitch in relief. Some guys can relieve and can't start. And some can do both.

Look at Houston's starts this year- he has done well. Including Weds. in Biloxi. His last start before that against Nicholls he goes five and struck out 10 while allowing no runs.

Usually the difference is the guys that can relieve and are good at it can up and loose quickly. I've seen a couple of Houston's bullpen sessions and that's just not him. I've seen some of Daniel Brown's and he gets loose really quickly.

So, just because you don't do well as a relief pitcher it doesn't necessarily mean you won't do well as a starting pitcher. A better analogy would be like saying a RF with a good arm can play third base because that position requires a strong arm. It's possible- but it's not necessarily true for everyone.

Relief pitching is a different mindset and some guys just don't do as well with runners on or late in the game which is when the toughest outs are in play. Other don't do well trying to get through a lineup three times.

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I know all of that, but like I said....do you REALLY not understand why Cohen wouldn't want to toss a guy that's being shelled out of the pen, into a starter role in the SEC, in HOPES that he's better as a starter? Surely you can see John's hesitation there. That's all I'm saying.

I don't want Cohen experimenting on Sunday of a 1-1 series vs Alabama with our National Seed or host spot on the line, just in hopes that he doesn't get shelled as a starter like he does as a reliever.

What if Tatum is better as a starter too....you ready to run him out there for a Sunday start vs SEC competition?

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

I want to be the ace for Cubs...reckon they'll just "make" me the ace?

Gotta earn opportunities, and all he's earned is a pat on the back for how he's pitched in ONE game this year. Gimme a break!

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He has earned it in his starts. He earned it wed night.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Starting and relieving are two totally different animals. Really, to me they're two different positions. Some guys can start and can't pitch in relief. Some guys can relieve and can't start. And some can do both.

Look at Houston's starts this year- he has done well. Including Weds. in Biloxi. His last start before that against Nicholls he goes five and struck out 10 while allowing no runs.

Usually the difference is the guys that can relieve and are good at it can up and loose quickly. I've seen a couple of Houston's bullpen sessions and that's just not him. I've seen some of Daniel Brown's and he gets loose really quickly.

So, just because you don't do well as a relief pitcher it doesn't necessarily mean you won't do well as a starting pitcher. A better analogy would be like saying a RF with a good arm can play third base because that position requires a strong arm. It's possible- but it's not necessarily true for everyone.

Relief pitching is a different mindset and some guys just don't do as well with runners on or late in the game which is when the toughest outs are in play. Other don't do well trying to get through a lineup three times.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I know all of that, but like I said....do you REALLY not understand why Cohen wouldn't want to toss a guy that's being shelled out of the pen, into a starter role in the SEC, in HOPES that he's better as a starter? Surely you can see John's hesitation there. That's all I'm saying.

I don't want Cohen experimenting on Sunday of a 1-1 series vs Alabama with our National Seed or host spot on the line, just in hopes that he doesn't get shelled as a starter like he does as a reliever.

What if Tatum is better as a starter too....you ready to run him out there for a Sunday start vs SEC competition?

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Actually, what I don't understand is why he insists on throwing a true freshman who can't make it past four every Sunday knowing he can't make it past four.

It's not like there isn't any basis for my opinion here because Houston HAS started and HAS done well on the rare occasions when asked to do so. I'd rather Cohen experiment trying to fix a problem rather than keep doing something that isn't working- and likely won't start working. Especially if there is some basis for it. Heck- Pilkington was an experiment at one time when he replaced Daniel Brown. And I disagreed with it because of what is happening right now. Houston also has a LOT more SEC experience than Pilkington and has started in the Cape Cod League as well and performed well there also.

Tatum has proven with his track record that he is more successful out of the bullpen- despite the fact that he is struggling big time right now. I think that's more of a mechanical issue to me and today it looked to me like we made some tweaks to his mechanics and even though he walked his guy, at least he was missing down. He also started some in the Cape and was not nearly as effective as Houston.

And let's not forget the one game Pilkington started and we won- Houston was the one who bridged the gap for us.

That's actually one of the good things about the Governor's Cup- we can let Houston start and if he does well we can insert him into the rotation against Mizzou and if he gets shelled it's not going to hurt us in the SEC standings.

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

Houston wants to start. He does better when he starts. Make him the Sunday starter.

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He's had his shot. Trying throwing it in the zone for more than an inning. screw that.

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

He has earned it in his starts. He earned it wed night.

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Sure he did.... How bout today? He earn it?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Actually, what I don't understand is why he insists on throwing a true freshman who can't make it past four every Sunday knowing he can't make it past four.

It's not like there isn't any basis for my opinion here because Houston HAS started and HAS done well on the rare occasions when asked to do so. I'd rather Cohen experiment trying to fix a problem rather than keep doing something that isn't working- and likely won't start working. Especially if there is some basis for it. Heck- Pilkington was an experiment at one time when he replaced Daniel Brown. And I disagreed with it because of what is happening right now. Houston also has a LOT more SEC experience than Pilkington and has started in the Cape Cod League as well and performed well there also.

Tatum has proven with his track record that he is more successful out of the bullpen- despite the fact that he is struggling big time right now. I think that's more of a mechanical issue to me and today it looked to me like we made some tweaks to his mechanics and even though he walked his guy, at least he was missing down. He also started some in the Cape and was not nearly as effective as Houston.

And let's not forget the one game Pilkington started and we won- Houston was the one who bridged the gap for us.

That's actually one of the good things about the Governor's Cup- we can let Houston start and if he does well we can insert him into the rotation against Mizzou and if he gets shelled it's not going to hurt us in the SEC standings.

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Maybe Cohen realizes that Houston is never going to develop into an SEC starter, so he is trying to develop a rotation guy for post season this year & for next year with Pilkington. Who knows. Bottom line, Houston has done nothing but get shelled when it counts, so I totally understand why Cohen gives Pilkington chances and not Houston. I'm not saying Houston can't be a good starter, but there is no evidence that he can go out & get it done vs SEC competition this year.

Hell maybe Cohen is thinking like me....in that I would rather us get these young guys experience since they clearly have the talent, just need the reps. Houston has proven multiple times that he doesn't have a great mental makeup and can't be reliable in big games. That being said, I'm totally fine with running freshmen out there to get their lumps in, in hopes that they can work out the kinks and be reliable by this postseason or next year at the latest.

In summary, I'm fine with Houston getting a shot....but he definitely hasn't earned another one, and there's nothing that should make anyone confident he can be a good starter. Pilkington has actually done well....he just doesn't quite have the endurance yet, and typically gets a shit sandwich for defense behind him. I love what he has done against 3 Top 10 SEC teams in his 3 starts in league play. To me, this will be valuable experience that will help us so much later this season & big time next year as we replace Hudson & Sexton.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Sure he did.... How bout today? He earn it?

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What part of "in his starts" is too much for you to understand ?

We just capped our 3rd series win on the road against a top 10 team. We're pretty damn good.

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

What part of "in his starts" is too much for you to understand ?

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What part of la Monroe isn't in the sec is too much for U to understand. Dude had his shot, his shots. It wasn't for lack of opportunity. He deserves nothing who cares what u say.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Maybe Cohen realizes that Houston is never going to develop into an SEC starter, so he is trying to develop a rotation guy for post season this year & for next year with Pilkington. Who knows. Bottom line, Houston has done nothing but get shelled when it counts, so I totally understand why Cohen gives Pilkington chances and not Houston. I'm not saying Houston can't be a good starter, but there is no evidence that he can go out & get it done vs SEC competition this year.

Hell maybe Cohen is thinking like me....in that I would rather us get these young guys experience since they clearly have the talent, just need the reps. Houston has proven multiple times that he doesn't have a great mental makeup and can't be reliable in big games. That being said, I'm totally fine with running freshmen out there to get their lumps in, in hopes that they can work out the kinks and be reliable by this postseason or next year at the latest.

In summary, I'm fine with Houston getting a shot....but he definitely hasn't earned another one, and there's nothing that should make anyone confident he can be a good starter. Pilkington has actually done well....he just doesn't quite have the endurance yet, and typically gets a shit sandwich for defense behind him. I love what he has done against 3 Top 10 SEC teams in his 3 starts in league play. To me, this will be valuable experience that will help us so much later this season & big time next year as we replace Hudson & Sexton.

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Houston hasn't really been given a shot to lose it yet this year. People talk about how he has been shelled all year- but his ERA is 2.25 on the season. Last season he had a better SEC ERA than Hudson with an SEC ERA of 4.09 and he had 30 K's in 22 IP while SEC hitters hit .184 off of him. So, yes there is evidence that he can get SEC hitters out- not to mention him shutting down Florida this year. I think it's just a matter of putting him in the right situation that fits him.

The difference between Houston and Pilkington is this- Houston gives you a better chance of getting through five innings than Pilkington does. Pilkington might give you three solid innings- but by only going three innings it exposes our bullpen that much more. I'd much rather our bullpen guys try to get 12 outs than 18.

And yes, this experience will benefit Pilkington and us down the road- but we have a chance to get a National Seed here. At some point we have to stop just throwing freshmen out there and hope one of them is on and hope that our offense can get 15+ runs to win.

Heck- before two weeks ago there was no evidence that Daniel Brown would succeed out of the bullpen and right now he is one of if not our best relief guy behind maybe Humphreys.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

My hope is that Alexander comes back soon. Play him at short and Gridley at 2b. Hopefully Alexander's range at SS will help out Collins some. When Robson returns, play him in center and mangum in rf... I really think these moves are gonna make us a better defensive team

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You Must be Alexander's dad!

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Originally Posted by Backwoodsdawg

You Must be Alexander's dad!

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Haha... No. I'd certainly claim any player we had if I were his father though

BTW, your son had a much better weekend offensively... Probably a little too impatient still, but solid results. He was careless defensively though. I think he's gonna be really good, but Alexander's glove is needed more right now.

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Originally Posted by Bothrops

We will never sweep Lsu again. This was our chance.

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This is why the interwebs make me shake my head.

"Ulcer watch" thread..... Some of y'all really do need to pick up some hobbies in addition to following MSU baseball. Something competitive like golf, checkers or ballroom dancing to fill that void in your life. I understand the message board concept of offering opinions and insight but some of you seem so miserable. Why do you continue to torture yourselves? Its college baseball and not the pros. Enjoy the ride on the way to the goal.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Haha... No. I'd certainly claim any player we had if I were his father though

BTW, your son had a much better weekend offensively... Probably a little too impatient still, but solid results. He was careless defensively though. I think he's gonna be really good, but Alexander's glove is needed more right now.

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Lol you are still stupid. However I made it a point this weekend to meet him and he is a real nice guy. You are getting better about not dogging players but you still have a way to go. I also would still love to meet you face to face someday. Have a good one Belmont.

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Originally Posted by Backwoodsdawg

Lol you are still stupid. However I made it a point this weekend to meet him and he is a real nice guy. You are getting better about not dogging players but you still have a way to go. I also would still love to meet you face to face someday. Have a good one Belmont.

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When players put on a uniform, they open themselves up to being critiqued. I don't attack any of our players personally, but performance is fair game imo. Not sure why you always single me out bc I'm far from the only one being critical, mr Stovall. Can your son play 3b bc we have an easy entry to LF right now? Hope you have a good day also

I dont see us making a change at SS this late in the season. Belmont may play some- but I just cant see us making him the regular SS at this point of the season. But with John Cohen as coach- you never ****ing know