Soooo....the burner phones are becoming a big issue

Phone records are FOIA'able. What happens when Ole Miss can't account for phone calls made to and from these burner phones (because the staff also presumably has burner phones)?

Bah Bum Bummmmmm

Ole Miss could plead ignorance and claim they have no connection to those phones. But multiple recruits with the same story would be damming.

And so would questions about where those phones came from. Did a coach provide it? Did a booster provide it? If different staff and/or different boosters all gave burner phones to multiple players, that proves there is a coordinated effort to cheat, which is even more damming. It shows that The Network is real and that there is a serious Loss Of Institutional Control and not just a rouge booster.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Its not stupid- its actually smart. When the NCAA was interviewing Kimchee, Paidwell, Tonsil, and crew back in 2013- all they had to say was let us have a copy of your cell phone records for the last 6 months- and if they didnt provide them they could risk their eligibility. With a burner- there is nothing damning on their personal phone records.

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It's smart when you're dealing with a court of law with a burden of proof to meet. Dealing with the NCAA, anytime they give one to somebody not in the boat is serious exposure to them. The smartest way to do it is to have somebody not officially related to them provide the burner phone, or even give them cash to go get a burner phone, and then tell them to give that number to the UM coaches. To be really safe they should also probably give the number out to another couple of schools without telling them it's a burner. That leaves the UM coaches with plausible deniability, except that they as long as the burner phones keep records (which theuy presumably have to so that they can establish the charges), the records are going to show it's obvious that UM coaches were ignoring the limitations on contact. With one recruit telling them the phone came from UM, even if indirectly, and records showing that UM seemed to expect the contacts would remain hidden, that's probably enough for the NCAA's purposes to find UM to have intentionally violated the rules and been deceptive about it. WIth two recruits telling them that, that would probably be considered a slam dunk for the NCAA's purposes, even if the recruits couldn't tie the phone to somebody officially with UM.

I guess the only way I can imagine it is that everybody sort of already lives with this risk if they are recruiting with the big boys, with a dozen or more recruits each year that could rat them out. I guess if you're comfortable they won't rat you out for the $5k you paid them for coming to summer camp, you'd be comfortable they aren't going to rat you out for burner phones. Still a different level of paper trail for phone records versus a cash payment.

NCAA does not have subpoena powers. Also, the calls coming into those phones aren't going to be coming from Freezus's house. It'll be coming from another burner, bought in Memphis or somewhere else, that was laid for in cash. Burner to burner. All cash. No subpoena power.

They'll be able to get messages and testimonial evidence. OM's lawyers will challenge it and say it's hearsay and speculation and threaten to sue the ever living hell out of the NCAA if they assume it's a violation without proof and bring sanctions against the coaching staff. I think OM knows they're going on probation, they may know that they can't stop an LOIC, but they can probably fight a show cause on Freeze or maybe even other staff members.

Coach, how much Info are you getting from secrant?

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

Theoretically of course, they could deliver the burner phones so the kids know that anyone who calls them is connected to the program, without having to explain to player X that they're connected. It's a trusted phone line and only trusted people will have the number. Then, when someone calls and wants to talk about an offer, they know that the person on the other end got that number from someone connected. And when they say "I'd like to meet with you and your dad before you return to Starkville to discuss your future at Ole Miss" they're more likely to take the meeting invite. Especially if they're already in Oxford...

Remember, the only thing that's been rumored to have happened is that one or two guys didn't turn their phones in after a visit. If that's actually true, then maybe they're just handing them out during the visits. "Keep this on you so we can get in touch with you quickly. If it rings, answer it. No one else has this number except our people who know you're here." Then an offer is made.

It established a connection to the staff for a booster without having to really spell out that connection to the kids or parents.

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I think you just nailed it. Every bit of this makes total sense and establishes a clear motive for the phones. The phones aren't so Freeze can talk to a croot more, they are so the "bag man" doesn't have to establish his identity in order to make a connection with the kid.

If the "bagman" never gives the kid his name, how can he or Ole Miss be implicated? The burner us used as a trusted person hotline.

Is there any information the burner phones are connected to OM coaching staff, or could it be boosters? If boosters they have plausible deniability. If coaching staff that's incredibly risky and quite brazen on their part.

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Originally Posted by Jacksondevildog

Coach, how much Info are you getting from secrant?

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zero

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Originally Posted by Ralph

Is there any information the burner phones are connected to OM coaching staff, or could it be boosters? If boosters they have plausible deniability. If coaching staff that's incredibly risky and quite brazen on their part.

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Doesn't matter. If two or three croots have the same story, then the NCAA will go in dry.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

But B-Dork said it's over.**

Serious question: Are these phones on CSpire? Doesn't Jim Barksdale own CSpire?

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Nope he doesn't.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

This

Remember, there are two ways to know it snowed last night in court: 1. you actually stayed up and saw it snow. 2. It wasn't snowing when you went to bed but when you woke up there was snow on the ground.

The first is proof and the second is highly likely. The NCAA doesn't need "beyond a shadow of doubt" proof. They just need to truly believe somethings happened

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LOL This is so true- most of the time you wake up to find out there is snow on the ground and you find out school is cancelled

Well, shit. The next time Jim Barksdale comes in for a checkup I'm going to ask him exactly why he has more money than God.

This deal doesn't pass the sniff test...

Ok -- so if they were smart enough to get these burner phones -- they are both talking on burners. Also, assuming they are iPhones, the purchasing party with any sense will setup the iCloud on the phone and thus have the ability to remote wipe the iPhone at the visit. So turning them in is nice -- but not totally necessary for them to still be virtually useless to the NCAA.

They would have to be dumber than I give them credit for for there to be any real evidence linking back to OM here.

All this talk of phones and a secret communications system gives a new meaning to the term "network" ***

So to get off track here just a litte. It seems to me that it isn't a question of whether or not they go on probation and are penalized, but more so a question of how severe the punish will be? Amirite?!

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Well, shit. The next time Jim Barksdale comes in for a checkup I'm going to ask him exactly why he has more money than God.

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Read his bio and you will see why. He recently built a direct link fiber optic system between Chicago and NY trading centers. Increasing the speed of information between the two sites by 3 milliseconds and allowed him to charge 8-10 times the going rates to use his connection. He used his own money and did it in secret.

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Originally Posted by engie

This deal doesn't pass the sniff test...

Ok -- so if they were smart enough to get these burner phones -- they are both talking on burners. Also, assuming they are iPhones, the purchasing party with any sense will setup the iCloud on the phone and thus have the ability to remote wipe the iPhone at the visit. So turning them in is nice -- but not totally necessary for them to still be virtually useless to the NCAA.

They would have to be dumber than I give them credit for for there to be any real evidence linking back to OM here.

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If burner phones exist (have no idea if they do) and multiple recruits say they got them from om, that's all the evidence ncaa will need. This isn't a court of law. Kinda like if your wife finds you with a "wiped" burner phone given to you by another woman, good luck using the excuse that there is no evidence on it tying you to an affair.

#

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Originally Posted by engie

This deal doesn't pass the sniff test...

Ok -- so if they were smart enough to get these burner phones -- they are both talking on burners. Also, assuming they are iPhones, the purchasing party with any sense will setup the iCloud on the phone and thus have the ability to remote wipe the iPhone at the visit. So turning them in is nice -- but not totally necessary for them to still be virtually useless to the NCAA.

They would have to be dumber than I give them credit for for there to be any real evidence linking back to OM here.

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I agree with you, but if the two or three unconnected recruits tell the NCAA the same story, show the NCAA the phones, and show the NCAA that both phones are wiped clean, is that also not a ton of evidence?

The NCAA doesn't need a smoking gun, yet we continue to discuss this as if they do.

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Originally Posted by engie

This deal doesn't pass the sniff test...

Ok -- so if they were smart enough to get these burner phones -- they are both talking on burners. Also, assuming they are iPhones, the purchasing party with any sense will setup the iCloud on the phone and thus have the ability to remote wipe the iPhone at the visit. So turning them in is nice -- but not totally necessary for them to still be virtually useless to the NCAA.

They would have to be dumber than I give them credit for for there to be any real evidence linking back to OM here.

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I have a hard time believing that they got burner iPhones.

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Originally Posted by jumbo

I have a hard time believing that they got burner iPhones.

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Probably just iPhone 3's**