NOA Part Duex'

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg

So where do you put the odds of Bucky getting a show cause?

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I think hacks point come into play here. Do they have enough on freeze and if they do, do they have the balls. Personally nothing would make me happier but I think it's somewhat of a long shot. Hope I'm wrong tho.

"Pattern of willful violations" = Death Penalty

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

"Pattern of willful violations" = Death Penalty

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The NCAA has made it clear that the death penalty will never be handed out again. Freeze getting a show cause, however, which isn't outside the realm of possibilities under the new rules, wouldn't be far off.

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Originally Posted by thf24

The NCAA has made it clear that the death penalty will never be handed out again. Freeze getting a show cause, however, which isn't outside the realm of possibilities under the new rules, wouldn't be far off.

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They have actually handed it out twice since SMU in lower divisions and in different sports. They were very very close to giving Texas State the death penalty in football recently.

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Originally Posted by Mjoelner

From what I can gather, unless one or more special circumstances occur, the statute of limitations on the investigation is 4 years. Remember that the 4 years is dated backwards from when the NOA is delivered. This sets the 4 year date at January 2012. Now, they keep stomping their feet saying that except for the Tunsil vehicle, the other football stuff was minor and occurred under Nutt. Well, Houston Dale Nutt Jr. was not the coach for UNM in January 2012. So, for Nutt to be brought up in the NOA, one or more of those special circumstances had to have occurred under his watch. Those circumstances which can extend the investigation beyond 4 years are: (1) the eligibility of a current student-athlete, (2) a pattern of willful violations that began before the four-year windows but continue into the four-year window or (3) a blatant disregard for certain fundamental rules (recruiting, extra benefits, academics, ethical conduct) or (4) an effort to conceal violations. So UNM, which is it? Are you a ‘willful violator’ causing an extension of the investigation in-turn sending you racing toward a LOIC or is it really Bucky that is dirty and the violations didn't occur until after 2012? I suspect the answer is just simply ‘yes’.

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One thing to keep in mind, is that the SOL is from the date the investigation begins - which is said to have been 3+ years ago - not when they get the NOA. So if the investigation began in 2013, and went back 4 years, that gets you into the Nutt era and the potential uncovering of the David Saunders stuff (2010 was his 3rd stint). If they then back track Saunders tenures and ACT shenanigans that takes you back potentially as far as 1998 but more than likely only to 2006 and his buddy Hugh's interactions.

It makes sense to break this away from the 2013 and up stuff 1) Because of the change in rules; and 2) It is stuff they kept finding during the 3 years of investigation happening in "real time" and OM was too dumb to quit.

I think a head coach getting a show cause is essentially the new death penalty, and I expect that to be on the table by the time this is over. Anyone speculating on that happening one way or the other is just throwing stuff out there though. This is the ncaa's largest investigation under the new rules, so it's hard to predict what the committee that determines sanctions will do after the hearing.

The death penalty for major football program will impact other areas of the university through a massive loss of funding. If the NCAA starts handing those out, they will put themselves out of business.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

I think a head coach getting a show cause is essentially the new death penalty, and I expect that to be on the table by the time this is over. Anyone speculating on that happening one way or the other is just throwing stuff out there though. This is the ncaa's largest investigation under the new rules, so it's hard to predict what the committee that determines sanctions will do after the hearing.

The death penalty for major football program will impact other areas of the university through a massive loss of funding. If the NCAA starts handing those out, they will put themselves out of business.

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I agree with this. I don't think we'll ever see a death penalty again and certainly not to a P5 school. Show cause for the staff and scholarship reductions will be the "hammer".

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Originally Posted by jumbo

I agree with this. I don't think we'll ever see a death penalty again and certainly not to a P5 school. Show cause for the staff and scholarship reductions will be the "hammer".

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Yep. That and bowl bans.

If Freeze got a show cause would UM fire him? Because just having him on staff with a show cause could result in more penalties.

If it's a show cause for Freeze and company with a LOIC on top does the entire coaching staff and AD's office get fired?

I'm saying yes.

ETA: Like minds boodawg.

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Originally Posted by Boodawg

If Freeze got a show cause would UM fire him? Because just having him on staff with a show cause could result in more penalties.

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Of course they would.

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Originally Posted by jumbo

I agree with this. I don't think we'll ever see a death penalty again and certainly not to a P5 school. Show cause for the staff and scholarship reductions will be the "hammer".

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What about the timing of a show cause? A show cause getting dropped on new numerous assistants or the head coach in say late August would destroy the entire season and next year's recruiting class.

Well, I guess if the penalties were lessened by firing the coach and staff they would fire them, but what would they do if they found out the penalties would be the same regardless of what they did? Would they fire their best coach in 30 years? Knowing UM folks, I just don't know if they would. Of course I don't know much at all about show cause penalties and such.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

A little birdie told me that Ole Miss will receive a 2nd Notice of Allegations (NOA) in roughly 6-8 weeks, placing the time frame sometime near the end of March or during the month of April. This comes from someone I trust that did not attend State or Ole Miss, but has a lot of connections in collegiate sports. I don't know how he knew the timeline, but he seemed very confident about it.

I found this a little surprising because I was under the assumption that the 2nd investigation is ongoing. That would be one of only two reasons to split the letters. The other reason to split the letters/sanctions??? I've been told, allegedly, the 2nd NOA is completely focused on issues that took place after June 2013. That is a critical date as the NCAA changed their rules at this time about how hard they can pursue head coaches for violations that occur during their tenure. In other words, based on the latest skuttle butt, the NCAA could very easily be looking to implicate Hugh Freeze for recruiting violations. The first letter will be a straight left jab, the second will be a Mike Tyson upper cut. I was told that academic issues and recruiting violations will be a part of the 2nd NOA as well, which seems a little odd to me because I thought the academic fraud issue was all prior to 2013. If the NCAA finds academic fraud that spans two head coaches, multiple administrators, and lasted several years, there is zero doubt in my personal opinion that a Loss of Institutional Control (LOIC) finding will be levied. Further, I have been told that the NCAA has interviewed kids that signed with Ole Miss this year. If that's true, the NCAA investigation spans nearly a decade. Nothing, I repeat NOTHING, about this investigation is minor. Academic fraud and recruiting violations that implicate multiple sports staffs, spanning nearly a decade, that have already resulted in an 8-year show cause for a former Associate Athletics Director is horrible news.

Gentlemen, grab your popcorn. Should make for an interesting offseason.

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I have heard the exact same thing as well.

NOA are not that bad after all? This whole 2nd NOA theory makes ZERO sense. Come on.

Just be pissed that Ole Miss and Hugh got away with murder to build their program. Now, they can play it semi-clean. We should have been doing the same thing.

We truly are a pathetic fanbase.

It's been known for some time that they would get 2. What is new is the time frame. Everybody was think the 2nd would come towards the end of the year.

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Originally Posted by Boodawg

Well, I guess if the penalties were lessened by firing the coach and staff they would fire them, but what would they do if they found out the penalties would be the same regardless of what they did? Would they fire their best coach in 30 years? Knowing UM folks, I just don't know if they would. Of course I don't know much at all about show cause penalties and such.

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Would he be their best coach in 30 years without cheating his ass off to get top recruiting classes? I don't think Bucky is any better than Nutt or Cutcliffe but he just has multiple first round talent. Does anyone think Tunsil, Treadwell, and Kimdeeche would have not been a first round pick if they went anywhere else? I don't think Bucky developed any of them at all. None of them look any different than their freshman year.

It doesn't make any sense. Who has reported there is going to be a 2nd NOA? I don't think even Rosebowl reported that. What y'all are missing is that the NCAA is not made up of brilliant people, much less reasonably bright legal minds. If you are bright and successful, you move on after a short stay working at the NCAA. Investigators are significantly underpaid and undervalued. There is no massive setup scheme by the NCAA to hammer Ole Miss. What's more likely is that Ole Miss is funneling payments to the folks camped out in Oxford. Nothing major will come of this.

And holy shit, I hope I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by RezDawg

It doesn't make any sense. Who has reported there is going to be a 2nd NOA? I don't think even Rosebowl reported that. What y'all are missing is that the NCAA is not made up of brilliant people, much less reasonably bright legal minds. If you are bright and successful, you move on after a short stay working at the NCAA. Investigators are significantly underpaid and undervalued. There is no massive setup scheme by the NCAA to hammer Ole Miss. What's more likely is that Ole Miss is funneling payments to the folks camped out in Oxford. Nothing major will come of this.

And holy shit, I hope I'm wrong.

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The NYT is just one of many outlets reporting two investigations.

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Originally Posted by RezDawg

We truly are a pathetic fanbase.

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Not nearly as pathetic as those desperate crybabies are. Remember when they hired private investigators to take down Sherrill? Remember when they sent out death threats to Archie when Peyton committed to TN? Ever notice how infatuated they are with State and how they turn into elitist, spoiled 13 year old girls when we don't believe their crap? Nearly all of their boosters are borderline pedophiles, too. They would wait in line for hours to get a golden shower from a 17 year old 5 star teenager if it meant he would sign with UM, and they would gladly pay for it with cash that could feed his family. They worship recruits. It's a twisted priority that appears to have backfired on them.

No, THEY are a truly pathetic fanbase.