Recruiting. This may be worthless

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Originally Posted by randyholloway

I checked the stats and you're right - not nearly enough talent in either MO or AR to justify much investment in either. I expected more, especially from MO but the stars aren't there.

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wasn't Murphy close to being the top RB (if not #1) in Mizzou ?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

That's a nice way of saying it. It's honestly like Dan looks at the roster and just starts the seniors and then fills in the holes with whomever is a junior. Regardless of anything else. There's no way in hell that are juniors and seniors ALWAYS look better than every freshman and sophomore in practice.

Dan has to learn how to trust younger player in some cases- and at the very least he needs to try to get them more playing time early. Like 10-15 reps in game one.

I think Westin Graves vs. Devon Bell is a good example of this. Graves was kicking well- but when the game was on the line Dan preferred to go with the older kicker despite a history of not performing as well and not having attempted a FG in two seasons.

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Do you all just conveniently forget all the guys that DO play for us as 1st and 2nd year players?

Fletcher Cox
Chad Bumphis
Chris Smith
Gabe Jackson
Johnthan Banks
Chris Jones
Nickoe Whitley
Blaine Clausell
Taveze Calhoun
Bernardrick McKinney

What about all the JUCOs that DID play early, because they were worth a sh*t?

Chris White
Pernell McPhee
Denico Autry
Charles Siddoway

So what if they are conservative? By and large they are making the right decisions. You are cherry-picking and have a short memory. We've also seen that sometimes it's an attitude problem, like Josh Robinson. There's always a reason.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Dude, NO, you really can't. This really isn't your day to be calling out other people's logic, especially mine.

We need MORE JUCOs, period. You really use DARIUS FREAKING SLAY to make the point that we don't? No wait, you're just doing that to further your shiny new anti-Mullen agenda. We had a crowded backfield in 2011, remember a guy named Charles Mitchell?

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JWS built a SEC west championship team with JUCO however in 2000 he signed a big class of them and it flopped and he had no depth. You can do it but once you start you have to keep on doing it due to no depth. Now to JWS defense the SEC changed the transfer rules after he sign that class and could not get most of them on campus until the fall. So they miss all of Spring training and summer work outs.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Do you all just conveniently forget all the guys that DO play for us as 1st and 2nd year players?

Fletcher Cox
Chad Bumphis
Chris Smith
Gabe Jackson
Johnthan Banks
Chris Jones
Nickoe Whitley
Blaine Clausell
Taveze Calhoun
Bernardrick McKinney

What about all the JUCOs that DID play early, because they were worth a sh*t?

Chris White
Pernell McPhee
Denico Autry
Charles Siddoway

So what if they are conservative? By and large they are making the right decisions. You are cherry-picking and have a short memory. We've also seen that sometimes it's an attitude problem, like Josh Robinson. There's always a reason.

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The vast, vast majority of those players were early on in Mullen's career and at positions where we had glaring needs. I think the whole Mullen favors seniors thing is overblown, but we definitely have a problem not getting enough production out of players. Only getting a season of CB play from Slay was really bad. Robinson looked bad, but in hindsight, the coaches probably had good reasons. What we've done at RB this year looks really bad. We clearly didn't have an SEC back ready to play. Unless we find out that Aeris was really screwing up off the field, then not getting him snaps early and having an SEC back for the second half of the season was awful.

We also seemed to spend almost a full year with a player that was never going to have time to be an adequate LT. It really doesn't make sense that we stuck with Warren so long. If you're going to be completely inadequate at a position, be inadequate with a younger player (except for QB and maybe DB, where you can ruin a players confidence).

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Originally Posted by randyholloway

I checked the stats and you're right - not nearly enough talent in either MO or AR to justify much investment in either. I expected more, especially from MO but the stars aren't there.

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Half the State of MO. doesn't even play football.

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Originally Posted by engie

And how long before we have trouble recruiting Juco because we are redshirting them all and/or waiting two years to allow them to earn their rightful slots? I'd argue that we are already seeing issues here...

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Completely agree.... I think Gray saw the field a good bit this year though. But Mullen rarely plays the sink or swim scenario. Hutch didn't play till the end of the season because Johnson was better. It's almost like Mullen only played Hutch because he was about to graduate. I think Johnson is the better blocker and definitely better receiver, but he has 3 years left. Basically, we have one main issue. Our JUCO guys simply can't beat the tenure guys on the team for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

The vast, vast majority of those players were early on in Mullen's career and at positions where we had glaring needs. I think the whole Mullen favors seniors thing is overblown, but we definitely have a problem not getting enough production out of players. Only getting a season of CB play from Slay was really bad. Robinson looked bad, but in hindsight, the coaches probably had good reasons. What we've done at RB this year looks really bad. We clearly didn't have an SEC back ready to play. Unless we find out that Aeris was really screwing up off the field, then not getting him snaps early and having an SEC back for the second half of the season was awful.

We also seemed to spend almost a full year with a player that was never going to have time to be an adequate LT. It really doesn't make sense that we stuck with Warren so long. If you're going to be completely inadequate at a position, be inadequate with a younger player (except for QB and maybe DB, where you can ruin a players confidence).

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Ok - so lets see some more recent
DeRunnya Wilson
Logan Cooke
Fred Ross
Fred Brown
Donald Gray
Gabe Myles
Joe Morrow
Justin Johnson
Kivon Coman
Richie Brown
Bennie Brown
Brandon Bryant
JT Gray
Gerri Green
Tolando Cleveland
Deontay Evans
Johnathan Calvin
Jamal Peters
Nelson Adams
Jamoral Graham
Mark McLaurin
Kendrick Market
Malik Dear
Brandon Holloway
Aeris Williams
Dontavian Lee
Ashton Shumpert
Nick Fitzgerald
Dak Prescott
Will Coleman - Juco 1st year

All of these players currently on the roster played in 5 or more games as either FR or RFR or a 1st year JUCO (we really don't have many on the team from JUCOS right now).
Now, you can argue that they haven't been used effectively, the argument that we don't use 1st or 2nd year players in the program doesn't fly.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Do you all just conveniently forget all the guys that DO play for us as 1st and 2nd year players?

Fletcher Cox
Chad Bumphis
Chris Smith
Gabe Jackson
Johnthan Banks
Chris Jones
Nickoe Whitley
Blaine Clausell
Taveze Calhoun
Bernardrick McKinney

What about all the JUCOs that DID play early, because they were worth a sh*t?

Chris White
Pernell McPhee
Denico Autry
Charles Siddoway

So what if they are conservative? By and large they are making the right decisions. You are cherry-picking and have a short memory. We've also seen that sometimes it's an attitude problem, like Josh Robinson. There's always a reason.

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what about-Vic Ballard- Carman-Tyson Lee-the Big tackle from Holmes-Slay-Leon Berry.--the Center from Gulf Coast didn't start but he was a solid backup. JUCOs don't have to be stars but they do need to be good depth. If we spent more time evaluating JUCOs we could sign at least 6 a year. Hutcherson-Coleman both played well this year. i wish we would hire Steve Campbell and I'll bet our JUCO recruiting would vastly improve.

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Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

wasn't Murphy close to being the top RB (if not #1) in Mizzou ?

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He was the #1 RB in MO, but I don't think that has much credibility. MO isn't the best recruiting pipeline though.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Dude, NO, you really can't. This really isn't your day to be calling out other people's logic, especially mine.

We need MORE JUCOs, period. You really use DARIUS FREAKING SLAY to make the point that we don't? No wait, you're just doing that to further your shiny new anti-Mullen agenda. We had a crowded backfield in 2011, remember a guy named Charles Mitchell?

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Mitchell was a S. Slay was a CB.

We do take too long to get Jucos ready. Gray didn't play enough. #1 Juco OT redshirted on the worst OL in the Mullen era. Slay, didn't hardly play as a JR. Hutch, still waiting for him to explode (and he's damn well capable of it).

And... Joey Trapp.

However, I do agree we need to do a better job filling holes with Juco guys. We just need to prioritize getting them ready once they get to campus.

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Originally Posted by engie

And how long before we have trouble recruiting Juco because we are redshirting them all and/or waiting two years to allow them to earn their rightful slots? I'd argue that we are already seeing issues here...

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Yep, I know for an absolute fact that juco kids at both PRRC and MGCCC have noticed this trend.

If you look more closely at the states that border MS, there are almost no "leftovers" to go after. We're the one school in the southeast that's inconveniently stuck right between TX and FL and GA just far enough away from all 3 to turn mommas off.

We have to dominate MS, squeeze a handful out of LA, AL, and TN. Get 1-2 from ATL or GA, FL, and TX each year. And then fill gaps with Jucos.

I see the splits somewhere like this:
MS: 10-15 depending on the year
LA: 2-3
AL: 3-4
TN: 2-3
GA/FL/TX: 2-3
Juco: Select few for depth and immediately challenging for snaps

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Originally Posted by mic

Recruit Texas more.... It's that simple...

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Texas *'s are so damn lousy... SO biased based on them thinking High School Football is best thing since sliced bread.

Rather have GA *'s or any other in the Southeast to be honest.

You seriously just get an extra * for being in Texas. There are Math Teachers that have 1* in that state.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

If you look more closely at the states that border MS, there are almost no "leftovers" to go after. We're the one school in the southeast that's inconveniently stuck right between TX and FL and GA just far enough away from all 3 to turn mommas off.

We have to dominate MS, squeeze a handful out of LA, AL, and TN. Get 1-2 from ATL or GA, FL, and TX each year. And then fill gaps with Jucos.

I see the splits somewhere like this:
MS: 10-15 depending on the year
LA: 2-3
AL: 3-4
TN: 2-3
GA/FL/TX: 2-3
Juco: Select few for depth and immediately challenging for snaps

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If we don't start getting more JUCO talent (and I emphasize TALENT, not just bodies), then we are going to fail. We have enough of a test segment to conclude that just 'plugging holes' with JUCO guys will not work. We need to recruit the JUCOs for MEN.

You can't just do the same things at MSU that they do everywhere else. Ask Kansas State.

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Originally Posted by CarolinaDawgs

Texas *'s are so damn lousy... SO biased based on them thinking High School Football is best thing since sliced bread.

Rather have GA *'s or any other in the Southeast to be honest.

You seriously just get an extra * for being in Texas. There are Math Teachers that have 1* in that state.

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Agree. Definitely overrated.

Engie and Hancockdawg, that is because our approach to JUCO recrootin SUCKS. Even Croom did this better. We simply aren't getting the best guys, and that's why they sit the bench. The guys I listed above did not sit the bench, and they were crucial to our success.

Hevesy's attitude don't help either.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Ok - so lets see some more recent
DeRunnya Wilson
Logan Cooke
Fred Ross
Fred Brown
Donald Gray
Gabe Myles
Joe Morrow
Justin Johnson
Kivon Coman
Richie Brown
Bennie Brown
Brandon Bryant
JT Gray
Gerri Green
Tolando Cleveland
Deontay Evans
Johnathan Calvin
Jamal Peters
Nelson Adams
Jamoral Graham
Mark McLaurin
Kendrick Market
Malik Dear
Brandon Holloway
Aeris Williams
Dontavian Lee
Ashton Shumpert
Nick Fitzgerald
Dak Prescott
Will Coleman - Juco 1st year

All of these players currently on the roster played in 5 or more games as either FR or RFR or a 1st year JUCO (we really don't have many on the team from JUCOS right now).
Now, you can argue that they haven't been used effectively, the argument that we don't use 1st or 2nd year players in the program doesn't fly.

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I intended to caveat that with are NFL talent but forgot. Chris Jones and Derunya both would have played at any point in Dan's career and regardless of whether we had a glaring need. But looking at your list, it seems pretty clear that your filter of "played in 5 or more games as either a FR or RFR or a 1st year JUCO" is way too broad. Dontavian Lee, for example, barely had any meaningful time this year. Aeris did, but at the same time we were terrible at RB and he and DLee were the only guys that looked to be physically capable of being primary backs in the SEC. If both of them weren't kept off the field by disciplinary problems (and real ones, not just understandable 19 year old immaturity that can be disciplined with extra sprints and stuff), that was a huge fail to not try to get either of them read in the first half of the season so that we could have a legit SEC back in the second half. Malik Dear was not used nearly enough this year, but presumably that was because of injuries. If not, that was a huge fail to not utilize one of our few guys that could be a playmaker with the ball in his hands.

Some of it is not a question of playing guys, but seems to be a problem with getting them ready in a reasonable amount of time. For example, we were really bad at safety. Kivon Coman is not good. Brandon Bryant has all the measurables to be better. Is he just like Cox and not football players despite his athletic ability? Or is our defensive scheme really so complicated that a RS freshman can't be trusted at the beginning of the year? Or were Mullen and Diaz simply too reluctant to let Bryant play because of his inexperience (understanable considering how costly mistakes by Safeties are, but at the same time, there's no way to get experienced other than by getting experience).

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

I intended to caveat that with are NFL talent but forgot. Chris Jones and Derunya both would have played at any point in Dan's career and regardless of whether we had a glaring need. But looking at your list, it seems pretty clear that your filter of "played in 5 or more games as either a FR or RFR or a 1st year JUCO" is way too broad. Dontavian Lee, for example, barely had any meaningful time this year. Aeris did, but at the same time we were terrible at RB and he and DLee were the only guys that looked to be physically capable of being primary backs in the SEC. If both of them weren't kept off the field by disciplinary problems (and real ones, not just understandable 19 year old immaturity that can be disciplined with extra sprints and stuff), that was a huge fail to not try to get either of them read in the first half of the season so that we could have a legit SEC back in the second half. Malik Dear was not used nearly enough this year, but presumably that was because of injuries. If not, that was a huge fail to not utilize one of our few guys that could be a playmaker with the ball in his hands.

Some of it is not a question of playing guys, but seems to be a problem with getting them ready in a reasonable amount of time. For example, we were really bad at safety. Kivon Coman is not good. Brandon Bryant has all the measurables to be better. Is he just like Cox and not football players despite his athletic ability? Or is our defensive scheme really so complicated that a RS freshman can't be trusted at the beginning of the year? Or were Mullen and Diaz simply too reluctant to let Bryant play because of his inexperience (understanable considering how costly mistakes by Safeties are, but at the same time, there's no way to get experienced other than by getting experience).

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I don't necessarily disagree with you points. Yeah, if you had put the "pros" caveat to the list it would be different. My point in 5 games or more means that they more than likely saw play in an SEC game. But, the expanded list also shows that the players get opportunities to break into rotations. It is up to the player to take advantage of that opportunity in games, in practice, and the off-field requirements that our program expects of them in order to get more. Some guys on this list did that this year - Bryant, McLaurin, Peters, Green, Gray, Dear, Fitz. Others like Bear, Dak, Holloway, Richie B., have done it in past years. There are a number on that list that played 8 or more games as Fr/RFR - they did what it took to force the issue and beat out the guys in front of them. Some like to run down the coaches for basing playing time decision on what we see in games - which is about 15% of what the coaches see day in and day out. The player is just as responsible - if not more so - for getting themselves ready to compete.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Do you all just conveniently forget all the guys that DO play for us as 1st and 2nd year players?

Fletcher Cox
Chad Bumphis
Chris Smith
Gabe Jackson
Johnthan Banks
Chris Jones
Nickoe Whitley
Blaine Clausell
Taveze Calhoun
Bernardrick McKinney

What about all the JUCOs that DID play early, because they were worth a sh*t?

Chris White
Pernell McPhee
Denico Autry
Charles Siddoway

So what if they are conservative? By and large they are making the right decisions. You are cherry-picking and have a short memory. We've also seen that sometimes it's an attitude problem, like Josh Robinson. There's always a reason.

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Also some little-used RB named Vick Ballard.

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Originally Posted by CarolinaDawgs

Texas *'s are so damn lousy... SO biased based on them thinking High School Football is best thing since sliced bread.

Rather have GA *'s or any other in the Southeast to be honest.

You seriously just get an extra * for being in Texas. There are Math Teachers that have 1* in that state.

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The 97th ranked player in Texas is an OT that is committed to Texas am..
I don't go by * , I go by offers and who offered him..

So if Texas am is offering and has commitment from a kid in that state that is barley in the top 100 , im sure we could go over there and find a kid who played OL for a big time high school team..

And I don't give a shit where we go get them, there are Not Enough OL in Miss that can play sec ball.. Shit we have proved that over the past few years...